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#1
03-02-2018, 05:17 PM
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galley plug lube hole sizes?
Thinking about drilling a small hole in one of the front galley plugs to lube the timing set. What is the smallest hole I can drill that won't plug up over time?
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I could explain all this to the girl at the parts store, but she'd probably call the asylum. White '67 LeMans 407/TH350/Ford 3.89... RIP Red '67 LeMans. 407/TH400/Ford 3.25 |
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#2
03-02-2018, 07:25 PM
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How clean do you plan on keeping your oil? If you let your oil get dirty it will plug things up. You can do a .030 hole if you keep it clean. I did .065 on mine.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro |
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#3
03-03-2018, 07:46 AM
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Pontiac thought of that already with how they designed the Cam plate.
__________________
Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs! And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs! 1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set. Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks. 1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes. Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph. Education is what your left with once you forget things! |
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#4
03-03-2018, 11:04 AM
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I've got one for the distributor drilled at .030 and one for the timing set drilled for .040. I could go smaller on both if they wouldn't plug up.
My bearing clearances are shaping up to be .0033 to .004", so I'm trying to save idle oil pressure during the rest of the build.
__________________
I could explain all this to the girl at the parts store, but she'd probably call the asylum. White '67 LeMans 407/TH350/Ford 3.89... RIP Red '67 LeMans. 407/TH400/Ford 3.25 |
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#5
03-03-2018, 11:15 AM
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Those tiny holes will have no impact on oil pressure so no worries. Been doing holes in both locations for decades and all of my engines shoot right to 60psi past about 1500-1800rpm's and idle around 20-30 psi at 650-700 rpm's. The slight range difference will depend solely on what viscosity oil is used and how well the engine is heat soaked. Some say the front hole for the timing set is not needed, but it doesn't hurt anything and for sure puts a positive spray of oil on the chain and gears which can't be a bad thing.....IMHO.
I'd also mention here that drilling a .030" hole can be a lesson in humility as many plugs are hardened, and you'll have difficulty finding a .030" drill bit with enough integrity to not snap off in brass or mild steel, let alone hardened steel. I use two other methods here that are equally effective and much easier. Drill a larger hole then "peen" it nearly shut with a small machinists hammer, then re-size with the .030" or bit of your choice. Drill and tap for a #6-32 #8-32 brass set screw, then drill the much smaller brass set screw. Even when drilling brass and using an Huot or other high quality USA made bit make sure to use a high speed drill with very light pressure and plenty of lube vs a slow speed drill. A slow speed drill has a much greater tendency to snap the bit as it breaks thru vs using higher speed and very light pressure..........Cliff
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If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran! https://cliffshighperformance.com/ 73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile), |
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#6
03-03-2018, 12:11 PM
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Good Suggestions there. The Oil Pump By-pass is probably dumping several times more oil back into the inlet side of the pump vs that small amount of oil used to lubricate the front of the camshaft drive gears and chain.
Tom V.
__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
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#7
03-03-2018, 01:14 PM
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It has been said that a stock small block Chevy pump will move up to 2.5 times the oil one of those engines needs to keep things happy. I suspect the stock Pontiac pump is at least that capable and I've never had one of these engines exhibit low oil pressure no matter how much rod side clearance we had or having two small holes drilled to lube the distributor gear and timing set.......Cliff
__________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran! https://cliffshighperformance.com/ 73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile), |
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#8
03-03-2018, 02:02 PM
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Just a side note, the Pontiac oil pump gears and the SB Chevy oil pump gears are the exact same gears with different shafts. Just can't remember if they are the same as the standard volume or the high volume, but I believe it's the high volume SB pumps that are the same as Pontiac.
I used to drill the front oil gallery plugs until I primed an engine with the timing cover off. I'm here to tell you that the stock Pontiac lube system from the cam plate dumps a crap load of oil on the timing gears. Really no need for any more. Can't hurt, as others have said, but really no need for any more oil there, IMO. That tiny hole in the front plug spit oil out a long ways. If the front of the car wasn't in the way, it probably would have shot out over 10 feet.
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Paul Carter Carter Cryogenics www.cartercryo.com 520-409-7236 Koerner Racing Engines You killed it, We build it! 520-294-5758 64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction. 87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles 99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles 86 Bronco, 218,000 miles |
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#9
03-03-2018, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
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Let's make welfare as hard to get as Veterans benefits! |
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#10
03-03-2018, 04:28 PM
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Lots of opinions on using a high volume/high pressure pump in a small block Chevy build. Far as I'm concerned not only is it a waste of funds, it puts additional stress on the pump drive shaft, distributor gear, cam gear, timing set, and robs some power from the engine.
These Pontiac engines have a very good oiling system and there is no need for a bigger pump, or one with more than 60PSI pressure either. The most powerful full race engines we've built here live for many years with stock Melling oil pumps in them. Even with that said we've found minor issues with Melling pumps on occasion, so at a minimum I'd take one that was going to be used apart for a good cleaning/inspection. There was a thread running on here recently about checking and modifying them, with some good info there......Cliff
__________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran! https://cliffshighperformance.com/ 73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile), |
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#11
03-03-2018, 04:58 PM
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I put the small .030" holes in the plug by the distributor and the timing chain not so much to oil those parts but to quickly bleed any air that is present in the mail oil galleries.
Years ago, Pontiacs sometimes had a bit of lifter noise on the passenger side bank. this was from air being dead-headed at the end of the oil gallery and the last two lifters not getting liquid oil to function properly. I put the holes in those locations and the oil galleries quickly remove the air and the hydraulic lifters many times are not noisy, even after sitting for the whole winter in Michigan. Food for thought. Tom V. Ps The Hydraulic function works whether the lifter is a normal Hydraulic flat tappet lifter or a Hydraulic roller lifter.
__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
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#12
03-03-2018, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
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“It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.” Dr. Thomas Sowell |
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#13
03-03-2018, 09:01 PM
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Squirt Gun operated by hand can shoot water 10 feet so not really a really precise test of how much oil is passing thru the orifice.
Tom V.
__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
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#14
03-03-2018, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
__________________
Paul Carter Carter Cryogenics www.cartercryo.com 520-409-7236 Koerner Racing Engines You killed it, We build it! 520-294-5758 64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction. 87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles 99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles 86 Bronco, 218,000 miles |
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#15
03-04-2018, 05:43 AM
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I have often found the dead end lifter oil galley passenger side clogged with cam paste in engines making lifter noise.
A .030" hole in rear galley plug will help oil getting to #8 lifters. |
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#16
03-04-2018, 07:20 AM
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Paul I did the same thing with a motor back in the 70s and took out the plug that I drilled pronto, hence my comment it number 3 of this string!
I can't see wasting oil up there especially since the during most oil failure issues the number 1 and 2 rod that get fed off the end of that galley are the first to go south! Adding extra oil spray up front only makes for additional power loss from having more oil for the Crank to fight its way thru!
__________________
Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs! And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs! 1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set. Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks. 1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes. Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph. Education is what your left with once you forget things! Last edited by steve25; 03-04-2018 at 07:51 AM. |
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#17
03-04-2018, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Case one, "No Drilled Oil Plug" Oil comes off the front camshaft journal bearing, travels downward past the camshaft retention plate, drains out the slot in the camshaft retention plate, drips on the crankshaft gear of the Timing Set, gets thrown around a bit as a fine mist in the rear portion of the Timing Cover and finally converts to oil droplets that travel on the surface of the forward oil pan back to the pan sump. Case two, "Drilled Oil Plug" Oil comes off the front lifter gallery plug, contacts the upper timing gear, travels downward past the camshaft retention plate, drips on the crankshaft gear of the Timing Set, gets thrown around a bit as a fine mist in the rear portion of the Timing Cover and finally converts to oil droplets that travel on the surface of the forward oil pan back to the pan sump. So where is this oil spray that the crankshaft has to fight its way thru? The crank and timing set are in different compartments of the engine assy. The Very Slight amount of oil that travels on the surface of the forward oil pan back to the pan sump has no effect on crankshaft windage. Explain why you think the CRANK would be "fighting its way thru the oil spray". Oil from the lifters/block interface dripping on the crank, I could see. Tom V.
__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
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#18
03-04-2018, 11:37 AM
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I just want to note that this thread is really helpful to me where I am right now. I had certainly ruled out drilling the front plug because I saw that the cam plate looks like it will dump plenty (plus slosh from that "ventilation hole"). But I had also ruled out drilling the rear plug or even going to the trouble of removing it. This has been a good reminder that a) I probably really do need to address the crap that is probably in there because it is a deadhead and b) the hole might be worth the trouble if just to remove trapped air as Tom says again because it is deadhead...
So, thanks guys! Sam
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-- Sam Agnew Where you come from is gone; where you thought you were going to, weren't never there; and where you are ain't no good unless you can get away from it. Ministry - Jesus Built My Hotrod |
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#19
03-04-2018, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
And the lifters were worn due to the lack of liquid oil in the last two lifter bores. (Trapped Air and Oil mix). Tom V.
__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
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#20
03-04-2018, 01:57 PM
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You can get the drilled plug from Butler for $3.00
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