[Tom Vaught]

GOING TO BOOST (TURBOS) ON THEIR SILVERADO TRUCKS.

The Twin Turbo Engine should do a great job for GM fans who own trucks. 8 speed transmission too.

Tom V.

[Lee]

My neighbor (recently widowed) was needing a new car, and I helped her look at a few. One was the new Chevy Traverse, which comes with either a V-6 or turbo-4, and we drove both.

The new Traverse is fairly big, a total redesign from the '17 model. Regardless of a turbo, I just could not believe they put a 2.0 liter 4-cylinder in something THAT big. Then we drove it 8-O

The 2.0T actually makes more torque than HP, and you can feel it! I was shocked at how peppy it was. I felt no turbo-lag either. We went to merge onto the highway and my neighbor floored it, and it took off MUCH harder than I expected, and did so immediately.

She bought the V-6 Traverse. It just suited her needs more closely.

[Marv]

I have been looking at getting my girlfriend (who doesn't drive or have a licence) into a current model Volkswagen Passat wagon (as learner and provisional drivers in Australia are restricted on what cars they are allowed to drive for the first 4 years of driving).

The top model Passat used to come with a high-performance naturally aspirated 3.6L V6 but now has a 2L turbo 4-cylinder. In a near-2-tonne (4500lb) family wagon coupled to an auto? I drove one and was blown away, New generation turbochargers make amazingly responsive boost, plus direct injection, high-compression, variable cam phasing, and advanced computer management mean the peak horsepower and torque figures quoted in brochures are next to useless as its the spread of usable power that is really impressive.

I just really with the big turbo-diesel pick-ups you guys sell in the USA weren't over $150,000 by the time they hit our shores and are converted to RHD!

[er455]

Tom are they really going to put turbos on the Silverado ?? I have a ecoboost Ford F-150 now

[er455]

Tom are they really going to put turbos on the Silverado ?? I have a ecoboost Ford F-150 now

[Tom Vaught]

Yes, to both posts:

It was in the Detroit Free Press (Today's issue) https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...ine/621465002/

Tom V.

[Half-Inch Stud]

VW turbo diesel wagon is superb. It will accelerate hard with great handling.

2019 Chevy turbo 4- cyl truck is a mystery to for how long it will run withuot blowing smoke, and it probably handles like a truck. It it a truck for looks or a truck for being a truck. Should it tow an RV?

[Tom Vaught]

GM stepped up to boost using Turbos and in my mind that is a good thing.
We did the belt driven stuff with the Lightning trucks. GM did the belt driven stuff on several of the later performance vehicles.

GM FORGOT how good the Turbo Buicks were in the hands of people like Kenny Duttweiler.
His knowledge with turbos has been out there for years if GM was willing to use it.

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/take-...ny-duttweiler/

Tom V.
ps Ken Duttweiler is building some of the best engines on Earth—engines like all-billet V6s turbocharged to the tune of 2,000 hp. Engines like those that have found a home in George Poteet’s Speed Demon streamliner that seems to set a new record every year at Bonneville.
462 MPH Speed Demon is the fastest piston powered engine on the planet. Duttweiler’s fantastically powerful engines have spread his renown across the planet. If there’s anyone who has become a legend in his own dyno room, it’s Duttweiler.

[Jerry H.]

I read that on Yahoo yesterday. As a driver of GMC trucks, currently 2015 Sierra SLT 4x4, Premium Plus, and 6 others in the past 20 years; plus having sold them for over 4 years back in the early 2000's I can tell you that it will be a hard sell for GM. Even if the HP and Torque ratings are about equal it its going to be hard to sell the diehard GM pickup customer to switch from a V8 to a 4 cylinder.

I know you are going to say that Ford has done it, but I question in how many numbers. My uncle has purchased several new Ford pickups in the past 10 years and all, including his 2015 and his current 2018 have had V8's. He claims his dealer stocks more V8's than he does the EcoBoosts. I guess we'll see.

[Half-Inch Stud]

@Tom, several great points in Post #8.

I think GM forgot how to review chassis designs; too much CAD mentality and a lack of simplified manual maintenance planning. As if they need Fisher Body back.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Jerry H.

I read that on Yahoo yesterday. As a driver of GMC trucks, currently 2015 Sierra SLT 4x4, Premium Plus, and 6 others in the past 20 years; plus having sold them for over 4 years back in the early 2000's I can tell you that it will be a hard sell for GM. Even if the HP and Torque ratings are about equal it its going to be hard to sell the diehard GM pickup customer to switch from a V8 to a 4 cylinder.

I know you are going to say that Ford has done it, but I question in how many numbers. My uncle has purchased several new Ford pickups in the past 10 years and all, including his 2015 and his current 2018 have had V8's. He claims his dealer stocks more V8's than he does the EcoBoosts. I guess we'll see.

Ford has sold over 2 million ECOBOOST (Turbocharged) vehicles, Jerry. The highest volume RED HOT 66 GTO only sold about 100,000 vehicles. If we were lucky the belt driven Eaton supercharged Lightning Trucks were lucky to sell 18,000 vehicles a year.

Lots and Lots of Pontiac or Chevrolet NA V8 engines never come close to 800 hp in their lifetime, or even 600 hp.

ECOBOOST V6 Stock Block engines make 800 plus hp, run 24 hours straight at WOT or near WOT conditions and live in today's world.

Gas prices are going up, maybe to $3.50 per gallon for fuel under the new administration.
Fuel prices plus state taxes. GM knows that and knows that people pay attention to reduced fuel consumption (they still want the power and the FE) so you have the new technologies, Turbochargers, Stop/Start, 8 speed transmissions, etc.

They have a great chance to be very competitive in the boost world.

Tom V.

This is a TECHNOLOGY DISCUSSION, not a brand discussion, lets keep it friendly.

[mgarblik]

I have to admit I was very skeptical when one of my fleets began trading in Sprinter diesel passenger vans for Ford 3.5 Ecoboost Transit 350 18 passenger vans. They now have a 2015 with 120,000 miles on it so a good single example. This van has been excellent mechanically. They run the hell out of it but it is maintained. Much quicker, faster and more reliable than the diesel. Gets about the same fuel mileage. They are really impressive. In GM's case, an Ecotech 4-cyl that they boost the hell out of, has a much lower cost than boosting the 3.6 L V-6 which is a very complicated and expensive V-6. They have to continue to improve fuel economy to keep the Feds happy. The Ecotech engoine is a well proven, older engine design so they should be OK boosting it to death with strong internal parts and a good head gasket. It's a good business decision IF they can convince people to buy them.

[Tom Vaught]

The Ecotech engine, Mike, in Ron Main's Flatfire Streamliner set several records at Bonneville with a boosted ecotec engine.

After setting the “Fastest Flathead in the World” record and looking to go faster, Ron partnered with another Bonneville racer, George Poteet, to replace FlatFire’s wildly modified flathead with a turbocharged GM Ecotec four cylinder and renamed the streamliner "EcoFire".

Driven by Poteet, the "EcoFire" established an F/Blown Fuel Streamliner record of 325.934 mph, and at a private meet, set an FIA record of 326.117. With these records in hand, the FlatFire/EcoFire car was retired.

So the GM 4 cylinder engine does have some good engineering background in its design.

https://www.museumofamericanspeed.com/flatfire.html

Tom V.

More info:
http://autoweek.com/article/car-news...ing-bonneville



This was before the George Poteet/Ron Main "Speed Demon" Engine/chassis days to follow.

[Don Keefe]

I for one am pretty excited about this. GM abandoned the turbos in the 1990s after the Feds enacted new cold-start emission laws that in order to pass required all exhaust heat energy to the catalytic converter. SInce turbos also operate on heat energy, they sapped some of that energy and wouldn't pass the standards. GM and Ford both switched to Eaton superchargers to keep the power up and meet the standard but as we know, in OEM applications, the turbos are the way to go. I love the supercharged 3800 in my GTP and it makes a lot of power for what it is but it would be so much better if it was turboed like the Grand Nationals. The 3800 is a much better engine than the earlier 231 V-6 engines and it's too bad they never mated that engine with a similar turbo setup in production. That would have a winner.

Anyway, it is amazing how much power these new-generation engine make. We had a 2015 Fusion with the 2.0 EcoBoost and that was a badass little car. We traded it in on a 2018 Escape because we needed the extra cargo room for hauling magazines and tents, etc. We got the 1.5-liter EcoBoost and it is an amazing combination. While is doesn't make as much power as the Fusion, it still cranks out 179 horsepower out of 91 cubic inches and the mileage is really impressive. It was a good move for us. Nice work, Tom Vaught!

I wondered how long it would take the OEs to get the technology up to a point where small-displacement, high-boost engines would make economic sense. I have been a fan of turbocharging since the late 1970s and still have a dog-eared copy of Hugh MacInnes' Book, Turbochargers. For me, that one was a real wake-up call.

[Tom Vaught]

I added a link to my post #13 that mentioned a 1200 hp Turbocharged GM ecotec 4 cylinder drag engine that was detuned for Bonneville to 850 hp. The boosted engine lived, the NA engine (raced by another team at higher rpm) threw a rod. Let the boost do the job vs the engine rpm.

Tom V.

[mgarblik]

I have no problem with the EcoTech family of engines. They have been out in one form or another for almost 15 years, sold in the millions. The only consistent problem that rears it's ugly head in the engine family is poor maintenance leading to stuck piston rings, high oil consumption, and timing chain tensioner failure. This can be said of any modern engine that is not maintained and cared for, so no sympathy from me on those type failures. In high output turbo trim, full synthetic oil changes at proper intervals will be critical. With 8-9-10 speed auto transmissions, they should be able to tune the engine well to available torque. High gas prices will be GM's best friend in the search to find customers for these trucks. In my fleet operations, TOTAL cost per mile is the number 1 consideration. The diesel's get good fuel mileage, but when something breaks, the repair costs are astronomical. Also the 13 quarts of oil and the $200.00 fuel filters twice a year make maintenance costs very high. Quickly eats up the mileage advantage. So far the Ford Eco-Boost vans cost 30% less to operate than the Sprinter diesels. I wish GM good luck with the turbo-4.

[Tom Vaught]

Thanks for the additional info Mike.

Solid maintenance info AND COSTS is sometimes overlooked in making decisions.

Tom V.

[TedRamAirII]

These people that actually need a truck to be a truck are going to be real disappointed with little engines with a turbo. These engines will be under boost most of the time and you will not get the mileage you think you will. Little engines overworking are not happy. Sure the Soccer Moms or guys that think they look good in a truck will think they are swell, but don't try pulling any meaningful load, trailer, camper etc. The main goal with trucks is to sell as many as possible with claims of glory. Bottom line is, they are designed to last the warranty period, then self destruct. They would love for the complete truck to fall apart, so they can sell you another. I know a guy that traded in his 2014 Silverado for a F150 3.6 Ecoboost, he now gets 7.5 MPG pulling his camper, while he got 12 with the Chevy, plus has to add a quart of oil every 1000 miles. I guess GM wants to be equal with Ford now? The late model F150 with the 5.0 is a good engine, power and mpg. The Ecoboost Fords with mileage over 100k are going to be money pits, like the 5.4L was with spark plugs, timing chains, cam phasers and thrust bearings. I hate for GM to follow that route. The GM 3.6L V6 has all kinds of timing chain issues. Most all brands of engines that are going with Direct Injection are having intake valve carbon issues.

[Tom Vaught]

Funny, that does not match at all with this actual info,Ted.

https://social.ford.com/en_US/story/...st-engine.html

Tom V.

ps it is a 3.5L Ecoboost engine,Ted. You are just making things up or your buddy is.

[Aaron Quinton]

I thought this was a Pontiac site, not a Ferd wank fest.

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Funny, that does not match at all with this actual info,Ted.

https://social.ford.com/en_US/story/...st-engine.html

Tom V.

ps it is a 3.5L Ecoboost engine,Ted. You are just making things up or your buddy is.