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#1
08-11-2018, 02:33 AM
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pontiac motor in 1994 t/a
any info appreciated
want a pontiac powered 1994 thank you GILLIGAN |
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#2
08-11-2018, 06:21 AM
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It's a easy swap if you don't need to run Headers!
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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs! And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs! 1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set. Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks. 1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes. Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph. Education is what your left with once you forget things! |
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#3
08-11-2018, 10:01 AM
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iirc the 4th gen is essentially a reskinned 3rd gen - so the same rules apply...
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1970 Formula 400 Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car. Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left. 1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing) 2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs) |
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#4
08-11-2018, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
All you have to do is pop the hood & take a look at a 3rd gen vs a 4th gen engine bay. Most say the easiest way to remove & install an engine in a 4th gen is to drop the front subframe with engine attached. |
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#5
08-11-2018, 11:55 AM
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I have had a SBC LT1, and a 3800 out of a 4th gen car. Took them both out the bottom. They are a tight fit on the top side under the cowl. Pontiac V-8 would be even a little tighter. Where there is a will, there's a way. Can't think of a better way to improve one of those cars. 99 out of 100 would toss a boneyard LS in there and be done. I applaud your approach. Plan on some skinned knuckles.
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#6
08-11-2018, 02:51 PM
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There's more than a few race cars Pontiac powered. Tight especially cowl area. No tunnel ram or blower without notching windsheild I'd bet.
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#7
08-11-2018, 04:02 PM
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Do it and you will be a hero.
My brother has a 84 with a sbc in it. There are actually motor mount holes for a Pontiac in them. 301 was planned but never happened. Sone just GAVE him a 71 GTO engine. Have the whole thing with the 96 heads on it. Thats going in the car at some point. I had some cobbled together headers someone gave me who put a 455 in a 80s Camero. I bought the engine for 300 bucks and gave the headers to my brother. |
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#8
08-11-2018, 04:12 PM
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In the 90s Jim Butler did the Stratostreak engine into a 4th Gen F body, I remember reading an article at one time about the difficulties they had and it wasn't a weekend swap.
I owned a 97 and did some preliminary looking and figuring about doing the swap, main problem is the distributor is under the cowl and would be nearly inaccessible under there. If someone was to use a multi coil ignition system and fuel injection as I believe Butler did it would make accessibility to key parts much easier. The low cowl over the distributor is the reason GM designed the trouble prone Duraspark distributor on the front of the LT1 engines. The 3rd and 4th gens have some similarities, but they also have many differences.
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Brad Yost 1973 T/A (SOLD) 2005 GTO 1984 Grand Prix 100% Pontiacs in my driveway!!! What's in your driveway? If you don't take some of the RACETRACK home with you, Ya got cheated    
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#9
08-11-2018, 04:42 PM
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As you get into this project further, keep in mind there are many more support parts on the shelf than 20 years ago. I agree with Sirrotica, that getting rid of the rear distributor would be very helpful. BOP sells a dummy gear/driveshaft unit to run a stock style oil pump. MSD has a crank trigger kit for Pontiac. BOP has a complete belt drive set-up including distributor. I saw a beautiful candy red/purple first gen Firebird near the Butler pit at Norwalk, (Wilkerson's?), that had a really cool Pontiac coil near plug ignition, with the coils all lined up on the firewall. May have been FAST branded stuff. I guess my point would be don't let stuff like that keep you from your goal. Pontiac power in a Pontiac car.
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#10
08-11-2018, 05:03 PM
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" In the 90s Jim Butler did the Stratostreak engine into a 4th Gen F body, I remember reading an article at one time about the difficulties they had and it wasn't a weekend swap..."
https://butlerperformance.com/g-2124...iac-power.html "...BOP sells a dummy gear/driveshaft unit to run a stock style oil pump. MSD has a crank trigger kit for Pontiac. BOP has a complete belt drive set-up including distributor..." Here's some pics of a 4th gen Pontiac powered Super Stock Bird. Looks pretty crowded, even without AC & other accessories that a street car needs. Last edited by ponyakr; 08-11-2018 at 05:16 PM. |
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#11
08-11-2018, 05:20 PM
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The pictures show how tight the clearance is for both the intake tract, as well as where the distributor would end up. Those are probably the toughest problems that would need some work around solving encountered in this swap.
Come to think about it, I'm mistaken, it was summer of 2000 I saw that car at the Butler owned drag strip Pontiac race over Memorial day weekend. I read the article after seeing the car at that race.
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Brad Yost 1973 T/A (SOLD) 2005 GTO 1984 Grand Prix 100% Pontiacs in my driveway!!! What's in your driveway? If you don't take some of the RACETRACK home with you, Ya got cheated
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#12
08-11-2018, 05:27 PM
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If interested here is a discussion about a Pontiac 400 going into a 1998 Trans Am....
https://ls1tech.com/forums/pontiac-f...ac-engine.html
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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 ) Old information here: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/ Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine) 5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE |
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#13
08-11-2018, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Ends without completion, just like all the other 3rd & 4th gen projects I've read about. Anybody have a link to a good build thread where the guy actually completes the project & ends up with a streetable car ? |
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#14
08-11-2018, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
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#15
08-11-2018, 07:39 PM
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Gilligan
Since we have NO idea where you call home... Leo Glassbrenner has a Super Stocker with a Pontiac in it. He lives in California, but does travel some racing. If you could look him up at a National event or a divisional race, you would have your answers..
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1977 Black Trans Am 180 HP Auto, essentially base model T/A. I'm the original owner, purchased May 7, 1977. Shut it off Shut it off Buddy, I just shut your Prius down... 
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#16
08-11-2018, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
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1969 Firebird, Tx3-455/468 machined by CVMS E-heads by Dave Wilcox/Comp Cams 300B-6 flat solid 850DP on E-85 by Eric Niefert/T2 1" plastic spacer T-400/PTC 4000/390's/30x9 Hoosier radial slicks,#3400 1.38 60' 6.32 @ 108 MPH at Northeast Dragway NC 5/23/15 (9th pass on new engine) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ePCu2v...ature=youtu.be 1.37 60' 6.26 @ 109 half track, 9.86 @ 136 1/4 mile, #3350 11/26/16 at Richmond Dragway (125th pass on new engine) |
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#17
08-11-2018, 09:35 PM
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"Ends without completion"
And as I stated it was a discussion. .
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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 ) Old information here: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/ Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine) 5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE |
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#18
08-11-2018, 10:36 PM
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Here you go. Maybe he can give you some Info. I met him down in Huntsville AL back in March, nice guy and the car is awesome.(95 bird).
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...light=Firebird There are others out there and some of them visit this board on occasion. |
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#19
08-12-2018, 01:06 AM
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Yeah, there's a lot of difference in a race car and a streetable car, with power steering, A/C, & all the other street equipment working.
All the 4th gen race cars probably have front & rear motor plates & use the front mounted dist. Besides the Leo Glasbrenner car that was mentioned, there is the "Hatari" car, which is usually driven by one of the Biondo guys. I think it is owned by Phil Monteith. Also, I think someone mentioned that the car John Agneta has been driving is what they called the old Johnny Duncan car. I may be mixed up on that. If so, somebody can correct me. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...UMMIT#indextop Greg Meyer has a 3rd gen. He posted that the car John Agneta was driving has a 4X head 400. I assume that the 2 white cars run the alum head 428, using an aftermarket block. I assume that the engine pics I posted in post #10 are of one of those cars. Don't know which. But again, these are all out GT class Super Stock race cars, which are minus most street equipment. http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...&postcount=314 Last edited by ponyakr; 08-12-2018 at 01:22 AM. |
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#20
08-12-2018, 01:08 AM
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And everyone thinks I'm nuts to do the same with a G8. Get rid of the GM corporate motor and go pure Pontiac.
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