[JMB36TA]

I'm at my wits end with my power steering. I can't get it to work after rebuilding the pump. It used to be so loose I could turn the wheel with my pinky finger but the pump leaked. I got a rebuild kit and ever since then I can't get it to bleed. I tried everything I've found on this forum and nothing seems to be working. When I first put it in I tuned the wheel lock to lock to get the air bubbles out and that didn't work. Then I saw someone say to start the car and get the fluid pumping, I did that and turned the wheels several times again. Nothing. One note...I did have the wheels off the ground every time I tried to bleed it and lowered the car to test it. If it didn't work they went back in the air. When I looked in the reservoir I noticed that the fluid wasn't flowing, it was just sitting there like the pump wasn't working. I took it out and started to take it apart. The first thing I checked was the pressure valve and found that I put the piston in backwards...oops. Glad I didn't have to take the whole thing apart. I fixed that and put the pump back in and started the car. The fluid bubbled and burped and it was moving! I turned the wheels back and forth for about 5 minutes, I can't say how many times but I wanted to be sure to get all the air out. I added more fluid as the level dropped until it stabilized. I dropped the wheels back on the ground and.........NOTHING! I just don't get it. I can visually see the fluid returning with the car running so I know the pump is working. Another note...the lines were only disconnected from the pump and never completely removed.

[steve25]

it could be the return side of the system is sucking air which could be for a few reasons .

[JMB36TA]

Originally Posted by steve25

it could be the return side of the system is sucking air which could be for a few reasons .

There’s no air bubbles coming through the line that I can see, but what reasons would there be air being sucked in?


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[TedRamAirII]

Did you get the spring back in first, then the valve? the fluid is moving, but you have no pressure.

[JMB36TA]

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

Did you get the spring back in first, then the valve? the fluid is moving, but you have no pressure.

Yes the spring is in and the fluid is moving but there’s no pressure.


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[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

Does it pull the idle speed down when turned hard on the steering stops?
If not time to T a gauge in the pressure line.
You MAY have put some trash/ damaged the spool valve,
or more than likely the pump has another (assembly?) problem and is not making ENOUGH pressure.

[mgarblik]

Couple of questions. When you rebuilt the pump, how did you put the vanes back in the rotor? Depending on how old the pump is, there were 2 designs. 1st design has a rounded bull nose end and a flat end on each vane. The vanes need to be installed with the bull nose facing outward from the center toward the pump ring. 2nd design, the vanes are the same on each end so it doesn't matter. Also, did you use assembly lube or trans gel or grease to hold the vanes in place during assembly? If you did, did you use a pocket screwdriver or pick to push the vanes out toward the pump ring before you buttoned it up? I ask these things because if the vanes are stuck inward, it won't make any pressure. You can look in the reservoir and fluid will be moving because the rotor is turning, but no pressure. I have had this happen a few times even when put together correctly. One thing you can try is to get the engine warm and snap accelerate the throttle HARD a couple times. That will sometimes throw the vanes out against the ring and it will just start working like magic again. Worth a shot.

One last thing to be clear on the valve. It goes together, spring in pump 1st, then flow control valve with the hex nut pressure relief facing inward and the flat surface facing out toward the big nut. Then the big nut and O-ring. Hope it works.

[dataway]

Not sure what year you are talking about, but the 68 service manual has a pretty good assembly, disassembly, section for the old style pump with the bull nose vanes.

[JMB36TA]

Originally Posted by STEELCITYFIREBIRD

Does it pull the idle speed down when turned hard on the steering stops?
If not time to T a gauge in the pressure line.
You MAY have put some trash/ damaged the spool valve,
or more than likely the pump has another (assembly?) problem and is not making ENOUGH pressure.

The idol doesn't come down when the wheel is turned all the way.
I'll have to take it in to test the pressure line. Or I'm thinking of flushing the whole system and seeing if fluid comes out the return hose.

[JMB36TA]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Couple of questions. When you rebuilt the pump, how did you put the vanes back in the rotor? Depending on how old the pump is, there were 2 designs. 1st design has a rounded bull nose end and a flat end on each vane. The vanes need to be installed with the bull nose facing outward from the center toward the pump ring. 2nd design, the vanes are the same on each end so it doesn't matter. Also, did you use assembly lube or trans gel or grease to hold the vanes in place during assembly? If you did, did you use a pocket screwdriver or pick to push the vanes out toward the pump ring before you buttoned it up? I ask these things because if the vanes are stuck inward, it won't make any pressure. You can look in the reservoir and fluid will be moving because the rotor is turning, but no pressure. I have had this happen a few times even when put together correctly. One thing you can try is to get the engine warm and snap accelerate the throttle HARD a couple times. That will sometimes throw the vanes out against the ring and it will just start working like magic again. Worth a shot.

One last thing to be clear on the valve. It goes together, spring in pump 1st, then flow control valve with the hex nut pressure relief facing inward and the flat surface facing out toward the big nut. Then the big nut and O-ring. Hope it works.

The vanes were put in with the round side out and I lubed everything with power steering fluid. I didn't push the vanes out but they kept falling out when I was assembling it. I took that as a sign that they were moving freely. I've been "popping" the throttle quite a bit lately because I've been trying to get it to idol right so that kind of takes care of that.

I took the valve out yesterday and found it was backwards with the flat end in. I turned it around so it's facing the hex nut. The spring went in first.

The only thing I can think of is that there might be a blockage. I'm going to pull the return line from the pump and spin the motor with a quick crank to see if fluid is actually coming out through. I'm going to basically flush the system.

[JMB36TA]

Originally Posted by dataway

Not sure what year you are talking about, but the 68 service manual has a pretty good assembly, disassembly, section for the old style pump with the bull nose vanes.

It's a 69 so it should be the same thing as a 68.

[mgarblik]

OK, it sounds like you have the bases covered I had mentioned. I thought of 1 more thing you could check. Take the flow control valve nut out and look at the black O-ring that goes on the big nut. If I remember correctly, there are two possible grooves that o-ring could go in. One groove stays open and one gets the ring. Make sure the O-ring is in the right place. I assume you have some sort of drawing that came with the kit. If that's OK, the only other thing I could suggest is make sure the reservoir is up to the full line and with the car jacked-up engine NOT running slowly turn the wheel lock to lock at least 20 times. That is the best way to purge air from the system. Then start the engine wheels on the ground and turn the wheel only 1/2 turn from center each way about 20 times. If it doesn't finally power assist, I guess you will have to take it back apart. Just can't think of anything else in the pump or air in the system that would cause this. What makes the steering gear power assist is the blocking of the fluid in one side of the gear by the spool valve and torsion bar in the steering gear. It is held by a small solid pin at one end where the steering shaft attaches. It's very rare, but I have seen that pin break and the tiny torsion bar break. If the steering was very darty and over power assisted before you rebuilt the pump, I guess it's possible that pin or torsion bar snapped while you were forcing it back and forth without power assist after your pump rebuild. I am still banking on air in the system or that o-ring in the wrong place. Since you didn't touch the steering gear, it's unlikely that's the cause. I would certainly get a pressure gauge on it before I went into the gear. Pump output, straight ahead should be 75-125 PSI.

[TedRamAirII]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

OK, it sounds like you have the bases covered I had mentioned. I thought of 1 more thing you could check. Take the flow control valve nut out and look at the black O-ring that goes on the big nut. If I remember correctly, there are two possible grooves that o-ring could go in. One groove stays open and one gets the ring. Make sure the O-ring is in the right place. I assume you have some sort of drawing that came with the kit. If that's OK, the only other thing I could suggest is make sure the reservoir is up to the full line and with the car jacked-up engine NOT running slowly turn the wheel lock to lock at least 20 times. That is the best way to purge air from the system. Then start the engine wheels on the ground and turn the wheel only 1/2 turn from center each way about 20 times. If it doesn't finally power assist, I guess you will have to take it back apart. Just can't think of anything else in the pump or air in the system that would cause this. What makes the steering gear power assist is the blocking of the fluid in one side of the gear by the spool valve and torsion bar in the steering gear. It is held by a small solid pin at one end where the steering shaft attaches. It's very rare, but I have seen that pin break and the tiny torsion bar break. If the steering was very darty and over power assisted before you rebuilt the pump, I guess it's possible that pin or torsion bar snapped while you were forcing it back and forth without power assist after your pump rebuild. I am still banking on air in the system or that o-ring in the wrong place. Since you didn't touch the steering gear, it's unlikely that's the cause. I would certainly get a pressure gauge on it before I went into the gear. Pump output, straight ahead should be 75-125 PSI.

I dint think of that , but that groove is easily confused with the O-Ring groove.

[mgarblik]

Here's a couple pics. Pic 1 shows the grooves. If o-ring is in the front groove, no power assist. Pic 2 shows proper location. It's possible? Hope you figure it out.

[JMB36TA]

I took the return line off, started the car and turned the wheel. Nothing is coming out of the return line. There’s a blockage somewhere. I’ll pull the nut off and check the o ring. If that’s not it then I have no clue. I hate to have to pull the pump out again, it’s getting frustrating.


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[JMB36TA]

Ok. I checked the nut and the o-ring is correct. But when I compare it to the one off the pump I just got there’s a difference. The new one is on the right with a hole and a larger opening. The old one is in the left with no hole and a smaller opening. Now I ask myself WTF?




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[JMB36TA]

I think I found the problem. I don’t think the nut from my old pump and the valve from the new pump can be used together. My old valve but had no hole in it because the flat part of the valve has a grove in it so the fluid can flow through the bottom. The new valve is flat with no grove and the valve but had a hole in the side as you can see in the pic from my previous post. If I use the new valve with the old valve but, there is nowhere for the fluid to go because the hole on the bottom is blocked by the smooth valve.

Here’s the old valve so you can see what I’m talking about...

Gonna put in the new valve and nut and give it a shot!


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[mgarblik]

Now I am a little confused. Not sure why there are two flow control nuts. I guess all I can say is the flow control valve needs to be kept together as an assembly, spring, valve and nut. Intermixing parts and I honestly don't know what happens. The snout if you will on the nut positions the flow control valve, so if there is any difference in length there, the valve may be out of position and not flow. You have mentioned several times concern of blockage, but blockage would produce extremely high pressure in the pump and lots of noise and possible belt slipping. Now if there "blockage" on the inlet side, the pump body would not have any fluid to pump. BTW, it's been a while since I was inside one of these pumps so you are stretching my memory a bit. But I seem to remember another weird situation with these pumps. I think it is possible when you are assembling the rotor and pressure plates to put them together upside down. When put together this way the passages are reversed and the pump works properly running in reverse rotation. I think some serpentine belt versions and possibly the ones used on Saab cars ran in reverse. Did you have good pics and diagrams for assembling the rotor and pressure plates on the two steel pins? I think at this point you may need to take it back apart and see what's going on in there. Hope this makes some sense. I guess one thing you could do to test the theory is take the belt off and turn it by hand as quickly as you can the other direction and see if it pumps.


I just saw your picture. I think you are on to something. Easy to test. Good luck.

[mgarblik]

If you still have no power assist after putting the proper flow assembly in the pump, I now remember what part you can put together upside down. Look at the pic. The outer pump ring the guy has his fingers on can be installed upside down. You can't see it in the pic but that ring has a cast-in arrow on the outside of it. The ring must be installed in the direction of pump rotation for your V-belt old Pontiac application. It goes in with the arrow opposite of pump shaft rotation for a reverse rotation pump. You may have to take it back apart and check if it still doesn't work. Hope this helps.

[JMB36TA]

I still have no power steering after replacing the valve/flow assembly. I'm going to do what I should have done in the first place after I received the wrong pump that I couldn't return to CARiD. I damaged it as they requested it and they refunded my money. I now have a new pump in a damaged filler neck. I'm swapping them out and putting the new one in my housing. I'm frustrated that I couldn't figure it out and get my old one to work. I'm chalking it up as a failed rebuild right now which is a disappointment. I'll take it apart and go through it with a fine tooth comb to see if I put anything in backwards or upside down. If it still don't work with the new pump I'm getting a new car!


That's a joke by the way...LOL

Thanks for all the input. I'll post if I find anything wrong.