[69 RA GTO]

Alright all you Arlington TX built 69 Judge and Ram Air owners !!!!!! Looking for information on RA III engine block date code. There is a said Judge with VIN 29R176170 that is missing the original motor and wants to get as close to original as he can without born with engine. I really do not have any examples from my 69 Judge Registry www.69judgeregistry.com and only have one Arlington TX example of 29R17416# being D189 (April 18, 1969) WS block I would like to have some examples of Arlington TX built RA III block date codes for reference as I know Pontiac Assembly plant date codes are real close to car build dates but as for other plants I do not know and want to learn to help others later on down the road. HELP ME OUT GUYS !!!! if you do mind. Thanks in advance. You can message me as well

[muscle_collector]

I have a WS dated D159 and it is a 29R185XXX and I have a WS dated
D259 and it is a 29R174XXX
so as you can see that they do not always fall in order of date and vin sequence.

[johnta1]

What are the EUN's and cowl tag build date on them?



Not sure what the production rate was on the A-bodies at Arlington, but would probably be quite a few per day?

[69 RA GTO]

Originally Posted by muscle_collector

I have a WS dated D159 and it is a 29R185XXX and I have a WS dated
D259 and it is a 29R174XXX
so as you can see that they do not always fall in order of date and vin sequence.

Thanks Muscle for the info as that is interesting. It would be nice to get some more for the sampling to see. So here is a list of know VIN to Date codes:


29R1741XX = D189 WS
29R174XXX = D259 WS
29R1769XX = D229 WS
29R185XXX = D159 WS

[muscle_collector]

out of curiosity, what are you looking for?

[69 RA GTO]

Originally Posted by muscle_collector

out of curiosity, what are you looking for?

With running the 69 judge registry, I get several people contacting me weekly with questions about these cars. I had a person contact me who has a 69 Arlington judge with a VIN very close to mine 29R17617X and his original engine is long gone. He wants to get to as close to original as possible which is to get a date code block, heads, intake that would be correct for his Judge


My Judge drive train is also missing so I was of no help. This got me thinking I do not have many examples of VIN numbers to date codes on original engines for Arlington built cars so I thought I would ask for people with original engines from Arlington built cars to see if they could help us and give us a ruff idea of what date code block/heads/intake we should be looking for.



I really enjoy running the judge registry as I get to talk to a lot of people who share the same love/passion that I do with these cars. I do not claim to be an expert at all and enjoy learning everything I can from people and share with others who want to learn as well.



I do not believe we have ever spoke before but I have read your posts for several years on here and you seem like a huge wealth of knowledge and know these cars well but just never had an opportunity/reason to contact you.


Sorry for the long post, and maybe this helps clear up what I was thinking in my mind. Thanks for asking.


Tim

[muscle_collector]

thanks for the reply. I was just curious if there was some new theory on something. I love this kind of stuff. I always love it when tim dye calls me on some newly discovered something about something whatever it might be. he is coming into so much information with his museums. I have a numbers matching 69 judge ra3 I will try to check and see in the next few days where it was built. if it is a R code I will get the info off the block some time next week.

[johnta1]

Searching with my EUN page I don't have a lot of Arlington engines recorded. But some may be that the submitters didn't post that info. If most used the partial VIN's on the engine it would make the data a lot better. (along with the engine date code and car build date)

Usually the EUN corresponds good with the cast date code on the blocks.
If the VIN doesn't correspond with the EUN time frame, there was probably something going on at the plant. (or a re-stamp possibly)

[MikeNoun]

Originally Posted by muscle_collector

thanks for the reply. I was just curious if there was some new theory on something. I love this kind of stuff. I always love it when tim dye calls me on some newly discovered something about something whatever it might be. he is coming into so much information with his museums.

The best is yet to come....

Pontiac produced 1,095 Judges in April 1969, daily rate build of 52 per day (all plants). This total was down slightly over March as there was an issue with Ram Air engines in April regarding durability problems.

With Ram Air engine issues resolved, unfortunately production dropped for May due a strike, only 808 Judges produced.



Mike

[MikeNoun]

Not sure if John Hall keeps EUN info on the 1969 Judges he's gathered in his database, but he has around 60 Arlington Judges recorded.

Mike

[muscle_collector]

great pic mike. looking at it took me a minute to figure out what he is doing. probably thinking why is there foam under my hood. never dreaming it might cause it to rust later in life. am I seeing it right he is poking it with his finger.

[starlightblack]

Do you know what dealership that is Mike? what a gorgeous Judge

[MikeNoun]

Not sure, maybe he's just looking at one of the actuators? Here's another pic of the same owner picking up his Judge at the dealership back in April 1969.

[north]

I don't keep EUN numbers in my registry because they are not typically found online where I get most of my data from.

By the way those are neat pics of the Judge in the showroom. Being a strange person two things caught my eye in the pic.... unusual to see a red Catalina wagon, looks like a Fire Department vehicle! Second, also unusual to see a judge with no tinted windows, the pattern cars all had full tint but almost all others had at least a tinted windshield. Also the valence is tight against the Endura, not supposed to be like that but I guess some were. The passenger Judge decal is crooked too.

Whenever I see these pics I wonder what happened to those cars? The Cat surely got crushed, the judge is still around probably. It would be fun to try to track it down, here's what I can make out...

Not a pattern car because of the glass
CR, parchment bucket interior
hideaways
black wall tires (no red or whiteline option
power brakes
radio (it has an antenna)
no front air dam so 3.55 axle (No AC, no RAIV and no 3.90 or 4.33 gears)
no cornering lights
can't make out if its a wood wheel, looks black but could be lighting

Do you know anything about where the pics come from? The clothes and the April date on the pic make me think its a relatively norther location. The Catalina wagon says its likely not Canada.

hmmm

[muscle_collector]

he is probably looking at the judge decal saying see this one is not lined up like the other side.

[north]

Just for fun lets try to narrow down that Judge...

my PHS listing has 329 Judges...

Hardtop Judges only:
hardtop Judges: 318
CR hardtop Judges : 216
CR Hardtop Judges w/o Cordova: 203
CR and parchment buckets Hardtop Judges w/o Cordova: 54
CR and parchment buckets Hardtop Judges w/o Cordova & hideaways: 12
CR and parchment buckets Hardtop Judges w/o Cordova & hideaways but no soft ray windshield: 2
CR and parchment buckets Hardtop Judges w/o Cordova & hideaways but no soft ray windshield & blackwall tires: 1

So out of 329 we got it down to one quickly. Since I have almost 5% of all judges lets say if we did this process to all judges we would have 20 cars left instead of 1 (one divided by 5% equals 20)

We might whittle that number down further with the following...
remove any car with a hood tach (42% of my Judge PHS's had a hoodtach)
Remove any cars without a radio (this one has an antenna)
remove any car with cornering lights
remove any cars without power brakes (I can see the booster in one of the pics)
remove any cars with AC or M21 or RA IV or special order axle or speedo adaptor (any of these options included the small air dam under the rad support)
remove any car built after April 69
remove any car sold in Canada (Catalina next to it in the showroom and the old US only logo on the showroom door)
Lastly based on the first pic I'd remove any states that would have leaves in the trees in April

I would think this info would reduce the number from 20 down to single digits.

oh yeah, remove any state that didn't have white or yellowish licence plates for 69

Amazing how even a relatively high volume "package" car like a judge can be narrowed down amazingly with limited data. I've got too much free time!

[muscle_collector]

great detective work there.
so how many of you guys restoring your judges blow orange overspray under the hood in the front center like this one has.

[muscle_collector]

I looked the vin up on my ra3 WS judge and it is 29R152xxx and I have not got over to look at the date on the block or the cowl tag, but the phs date is march

[north]

I noticed on the inside of the hood of my light colored A bodies (2 LeMans’ and a GTO in Limelight and Mayfair) that there is heavy factory overspray around the front and you can see the shadow effect of the hooks that held the hoods for painting.

[MikeNoun]

Here's the owner once again standing next to his Judge in June 1969. I had tagged this photo as as example of a crooked factory applied Judge decal on the fender,

I can't identify the dealership, but I knew it at one time. I have over 4,000 dealers in my dealer code database and over 2,000 dealer photos. I've tagged each dealer photo with the name and location of the dealer, but I captured these Judge photos a couple years before being called upon to create a dealer lookup project for the Pontiac Museum.

Mike