#1  
Old 02-11-2019, 12:59 PM
Dick Boneske's Avatar
Dick Boneske Dick Boneske is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Winneconne, Wisconsin
Posts: 5,387
Default STP Oil Treatment Zinc Content

STP oil treatment in the blue bottle (16 oz) contains zinc (ZDDP). Amazon has it now for $2.88 per bottle.

Does anyone know if it contains sufficient zinc content for our flat tappet cams in Pontiacs?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...RYF51BX0S7P6FJ

__________________
BONESTOCK GOATS

'64 GTO Tripower Hardtop (Wife's Car)
'64 GTO Tripower Post Coupe (My Car)
'99 Bonneville SE Sedan
  #2  
Old 02-11-2019, 01:21 PM
tom s tom s is online now
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: long beach ca usa
Posts: 18,764
Default

Dick,Nunzi told me to use a 1/2 bottle of STP and 1/2 bottle of EOS with my FTC engine.FWIW,Tom

  #3  
Old 02-11-2019, 01:30 PM
steve25's Avatar
steve25 steve25 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Westchester NY
Posts: 14,633
Default

David Vizard was so impressed with oil extreme brand additive that he bought stock in the company!

__________________
Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs!
And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!
  #4  
Old 02-11-2019, 01:43 PM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 31,294
Default

I was told by a Oil Engineer some years ago that the STP ZINC PPM was around 1400.
1400 ppm is a nice safe number for flat tappet camshaft durability.

EOS and STP Mix has been used for years on Camshaft Break-in so NUNZI speak TRUTH Kemosabe.

Tom V.

Some of the older 15W40 oils (used in Farm Tractors) had zinc numbers that high in their oil. I bought gallons of the 15w40 oil before they discontinued it and put it on the shelf.

__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
  #5  
Old 02-11-2019, 03:24 PM
dmac dmac is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,229
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vaught View Post
I was told by a Oil Engineer some years ago that the STP ZINC PPM was around 1400.
1400 ppm is a nice safe number for flat tappet camshaft durability.

EOS and STP Mix has been used for years on Camshaft Break-in so NUNZI speak TRUTH Kemosabe.

Tom V.

Some of the older 15W40 oils (used in Farm Tractors) had zinc numbers that high in their oil. I bought gallons of the 15w40 oil before they discontinued it and put it on the shelf.
So is the additive itself 1400 ppm or when added to 5 quarts, will it make your oil 1400 ppm?

Another question- Is 1400 ppm a good number just for initial startup/breaking, or should we be looking for high ppm even for daily driving. I
m planning to breakin with 'regular' oil, and then run full synthetic.

  #6  
Old 02-11-2019, 03:29 PM
shaker455's Avatar
shaker455 shaker455 is online now
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NH
Posts: 4,471
Default

I take no chances when using oil other than Valvoline VR-1 20/50
Stock up on Lucas Engine Break-in oil.
Add a bottle for safe margin of protection.

__________________
Carburetor building & modification services
Servicing the Pontiac community over 20 years
  #7  
Old 02-11-2019, 04:55 PM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Humbolt County California
Posts: 8,283
Default

My dad used to break in cams with nothing but STP. I have always used EOS myself.
Valvoline VR-1 20-50, does it have a lot of zinc ?

  #8  
Old 02-11-2019, 04:56 PM
74Grandville 74Grandville is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Plainville, CT
Posts: 1,837
Default

This is what I run.

Lucas Hot Rod and Classic Car Motor Oil

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/l...SABEgIbUPD_BwE

__________________
1979 Firebird Trans Am 301/4spd (Now 428)
1977 Firebird Formula 400/Auto
2007 Grand Prix GXP 5.3L
  #9  
Old 02-11-2019, 05:38 PM
mchell's Avatar
mchell mchell is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North Port, FL
Posts: 2,555
Default

https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/faq/racing-oil-faq

__________________
71 GTO, 463, KRE 295 cfm heads ported by SD Performance, RPM intake, Qjet, Dougs Headers, Comp cams HR 246/252 ...11 to 1 , 3.55 cogs, 3985lbs.....day three- 11.04 at 120mph ....1.53 60', 6.98 1/8 mile
  #10  
Old 02-11-2019, 05:39 PM
Jim Moshier's Avatar
Jim Moshier Jim Moshier is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Acton, CA
Posts: 294
Default

I have always used 50/50 mix of STP and 30wt oil installing all my cams and lifters. No cam Issues to date......

__________________
Jim Moshier

1971 Grand Prix 462ci SD Performance 6x heads
1962 Catalina 389
1968 Firebird 400-455 I haven't decided

"If we ever forget that we're one nation under GOD, then we will be a nation gone under." - Ronald Reagan
  #11  
Old 02-11-2019, 05:39 PM
Kenth's Avatar
Kenth Kenth is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Kingdom of Sweden
Posts: 5,457
Default

Recommended reading on motor oil:
https://www.widman.biz/uploads/Corvair_oil.pdf

__________________
1966 GTO Tri-Power
1970 GTO TheJudge
http://www.poci.org/
http://gtoaa.org/
  #12  
Old 02-11-2019, 05:47 PM
mchell's Avatar
mchell mchell is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North Port, FL
Posts: 2,555
Default

https://forums.vintage-mustang.com/g...treatment.html

__________________
71 GTO, 463, KRE 295 cfm heads ported by SD Performance, RPM intake, Qjet, Dougs Headers, Comp cams HR 246/252 ...11 to 1 , 3.55 cogs, 3985lbs.....day three- 11.04 at 120mph ....1.53 60', 6.98 1/8 mile
  #13  
Old 02-11-2019, 06:07 PM
mchell's Avatar
mchell mchell is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North Port, FL
Posts: 2,555
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenth View Post
Recommended reading on motor oil:
https://www.widman.biz/uploads/Corvair_oil.pdf
Good info!

__________________
71 GTO, 463, KRE 295 cfm heads ported by SD Performance, RPM intake, Qjet, Dougs Headers, Comp cams HR 246/252 ...11 to 1 , 3.55 cogs, 3985lbs.....day three- 11.04 at 120mph ....1.53 60', 6.98 1/8 mile
  #14  
Old 02-11-2019, 06:31 PM
Ben M.'s Avatar
Ben M. Ben M. is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,796
Default

Not to start a fight, but the linked pages of 6-10 year old info isn't exactly helpful as we've found that many oil manufacturers have constantly re-formulated over the years and it makes it difficult to tell for sure what they have in them.

  #15  
Old 02-11-2019, 08:09 PM
64speed's Avatar
64speed 64speed is online now
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Westminster S.C.
Posts: 6,025
Default

How do you guys feel about Lucas? I use it

__________________
468/TKO600 Ford thru bolt equipped 64 Tempest Custom. Custom Nocturne Blue with black interior.
  #16  
Old 02-12-2019, 08:22 AM
chrisp chrisp is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: upper dublin Pa.
Posts: 2,937
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vaught View Post
I was told by a Oil Engineer some years ago that the STP ZINC PPM was around 1400.
1400 ppm is a nice safe number for flat tappet camshaft durability.

EOS and STP Mix has been used for years on Camshaft Break-in so NUNZI speak TRUTH Kemosabe.

Tom V.

Some of the older 15W40 oils (used in Farm Tractors) had zinc numbers that high in their oil. I bought gallons of the 15w40 oil before they discontinued it and put it on the shelf.
I asked a friend of mine this question yesterday. he worked in the research and development lab for S.T.P. when it was owned by First Brands. he told me that the amount of zinc in the oil treatment would not be enough to compensate for oil without it. the oil treatment has some good stuff in it but really is just a "thickener" to raise the viscosity. it won't hurt to add it. best thing to do is to buy oils that have already the right viscosity and have the proper additives blended into it. some oils are already "saturated" with additives so adding anything won't help.

  #17  
Old 02-12-2019, 09:00 AM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 31,294
Default

I thought this was a interesting bit of information:

"Add enough Cam-shield™ premium ZDDP concentrate to get to the appropriate concentration for that application. Current API SM/ILSAC GF-4 oils will have approximately 850 ppm Zinc.

Minimum of 1200 to 1300 ppm Zinc for normal operation with moderate valve spring pressures (add ¼ ounce Cam-shield™ to each quart of engine oil)
Approximately 1600 ppm Zinc for normal operation of muscle cars (add ¼ ounce Cam-shield™ to each quart of engine oil)
Approximately 2000 ppm Zinc for racing (add ½ ounce Cam-shield™ to each quart of engine oil)
Approximately 2500 ppm Zinc for new cam/lifter break-in (add ½ ounce Cam-shield to each quart of engine oil, supplementing the cam lobe molybdenum break-in paste)"

So in the old days if your oil was (for example 1400 ppm Zinc) and you added a full bottle of say STP (at 1600 ppm) for the oil volume maybe you get 1500 ppm for the oil
portion and the cam break-in (EOS) takes care of the initial fire-up and 20 minute break-in cycle.

I have always used the EOS on Flat Tappet larger lift cams at Break-in.

Tom V.

1 ounce = about 30 cubic centimeters of volume.
So 1/4th ounce would be about 8 ccs of camshield.
1/2 ounce would be 16 ccs of camshield.

"STP Blue Bottle = 12 ounces. It is probably meant for a 5 quart oiling system, which means that they are allowing 2.4 ounces of product for each quart of engine oil. or about 72 ccs per quart. Camshield per ounce would be 32 ccs.

__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.

Last edited by Tom Vaught; 02-12-2019 at 09:13 AM.
  #18  
Old 02-12-2019, 11:42 AM
Formulajones's Avatar
Formulajones Formulajones is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,794
Default

Just run a good oil that has enough Zinc and the proper additives and detergents and don't worry about it. Then there is no need to add a bottle of this or that and hope a concoction or special brew is enough.
That's all I've done for 30+ years and never a failure. There are plenty of good oils now advertised for muscle cars, flat tappet cams etc... Take your pick.

Yes Valvoline VR-1 20-50 has quite a bit of Zinc but the additives package and detergents are lacking compared to many other types of oils. It's fine to use as long as it's changed frequently.

  #19  
Old 02-12-2019, 05:34 PM
Kenth's Avatar
Kenth Kenth is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Kingdom of Sweden
Posts: 5,457
Default

Any brand engine oil sold in a sealed container is XX times better than engine oils sold 4-5 decades ago.
Anyone read about oil change in an owners manual from e.g. 1965?
Says, Note: A can of Engine Oil Supplement (E.O.S.) must be added at each oil change.
Not really needed with todays oils after cam break in.
Also. i prefer using a 10w30 that flows properly to the lubricating points rather than any "racing" 20w50 that don´t flow and protect until the engine temperature rises out of the scale and clogges up oil gallery and lifters with unnecessary amounts of zink.
If an engine "needs" oil treatment it´s time to restore.

JMHO

__________________
1966 GTO Tri-Power
1970 GTO TheJudge
http://www.poci.org/
http://gtoaa.org/
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:32 PM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017