[glhs#116]

OK. So, as much as it pains me to write these words, the Tick is back.

Now, for those who haven't watched every episode in this whole sad sordid tale you may need some catching up. Goes a little like this:

Car loses oil pressure. Man rebuilds engine. Engine has "tick". Man hunts endlessly for source of noise. Noise eludes all capture. Man replaces cam and lifters. Man eventually replaces valve springs. Valve springs revealed as source of noise! New valve spring/retainer setup causes rockers to hit retainers. Engine drops valve but not before wiping out two cam lobes. Man buys new heads and sleeves block and sources piston. Man reinstalls engine with new heads, new cam, new lifters. The Tick returns!

So.. Naturally I was concerned lest it be my old friend the cam lobes going flat. I did pull out the cardboard shields to film the pushrods. They all spin. None spin quickly but there are no real standouts. When I had the bad lobes I had two very slow turners and the rest spinning quickly. Here all are spinning slowly. Not sure what to make of that but I'm assuming I'm not immediately worried about cam lobes..?

Passenger side:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFMdIGRUaGY

Driver side:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WPqkjN_DaE

Valve covers on:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP2ShXmXC7c

Now, I am remembering that when I first was hunting the Tick I was hunting a harmless thing. That first cam had no bad lobes. Those first lifters were fine. The noise was from one of the springs. Probably the spiral damper spring inside.

The Tick Mark II has a few interesting properties. It was strongest early on just after I got it running. It seemed to quieten quite a bit at spirited driving. It seems a lot less at higher RPMs. But it was actually a bit more after a 15 minute drive.

The Tick Mark II is not affected by tightening up exhaust connections. It is not to do with accessories because it is as loud with no belts on. The Tick Mark II did not change after taking out and re-installing the spark plugs. It is seemingly loudest at the front of the car (through the grill opening). You can hear it from the valley pan louder than the sides or the valve covers.

I am rather annoyed by The Tick Mark II but my main concern, of course, is whether it indicates a real issue.

Of the bottom end I am sure of the following:
Mains torqued and double-checked. Rods torqued and double-checked. Oil pump torqued and double-checked. Factory windage tray secure and not cracked. Lifters were all free in their bores. Fuel pump eccentric properly in place and cam bolt torqued.

It's quite similar to the old tick. I guess it could be a spring again but that seems weird. It's not, I gather, a common source for noise. Also, they are the stock Edelbrock springs for flat tappet cam and I'm guessing that given how many heads they sell if this were a common thing it would be known.

Happy for any ideas.

For now, the car is running well. Engine is smooth. I had to kill off almost all the vacuum advance to keep part throttle from pinging. Had to take it down to 7 (vacuum can adds 7 degrees) to stop part throttle ping and then to 5 (vacuum can adds 5 degrees) to stop lift-throttle ping. These are the Edelbrock CNC fast burn heads so I expected it to want less advance but this seems more sensitive than expected. But it runs well and pulls strongly.

Thanks for any ideas or suggestions.

Sam

[Navy Horn 16]

You are probably overthinking it.

Turn up the radio or get some exhaust cutouts and the tick will go away. If not, the problem spot will identify itself and you can tear things apart fixing what you know to be the problem instead of tearing things apart chasing a ghost.

[ID67goat]

Could only get 1 video to work, but on the video of the passenger side it didn't sound so bad through my crappy iPad speakers....then again I only run solid lifters.

An exhaust leak will also sound like a tick, have you looked into that yet?

I have read about all your issues you have had in the past...congrats on getting it back together and running again!

[gtohunter]

Chased a noise like that once and it turned out to be fuel pump generating the noise....

[glhs#116]

Originally Posted by ID67goat

Could only get 1 video to work, but on the video of the passenger side it didn't sound so bad through my crappy iPad speakers....then again I only run solid lifters.

An exhaust leak will also sound like a tick, have you looked into that yet?

I have read about all your issues you have had in the past...congrats on getting it back together and running again!

Yeah, sorry. They weren't all public. Now they are.

Sam

[tooski]

In the third vid, I can't hear the tick when you rev it. Is it audible when you raise and hold the rpm?

[Formulajones]

For starters you have Harland Sharp rockers. They are generally known to make a little valve train noise. Even brand new Harlands have a bit of fulcrum play in them, they can, and will make noise. They tend to make a bit of sewing machine noise, sometimes ticking if they have some miles on them.
Nothing wrong with that, they never pose a problem and will run for years like that. Thicker oil might quiet them down a little bit but not worth changing from what I'm hearing. Depending on the cam used, if it has a fast closing ramp you might also just be hearing the valves hitting the seats, which is normal with a cam lobe like that. It's not a big deal.

If you want whisper quiet rockers you'll need to invest in the Crowers.


Listening to your video there is nothing there that I would be concerned about at all. By the time the covers are on, the hood is shut, and you're inside the car I doubt I could even hear that myself. I'd run with it, change the oil a couple times and cut the filters open for a peek if it makes you feel better.

[Lee]

Rockers contacting valve covers?

Exhaust leak (as already mentioned)?

Bad spark plug wire, arcing to ground? You can connect a ground-wire to a sharp ice-pick, and pierce through the terminal boot of each plug wire at the distributor to determine if this is the problem - the tick will stop when you ground the appropriate wire.

[Cliff R]

I suspect a tiny exhaust leak, they can be difficult to detect and produce a tick that is difficult to locate.

If the rockers or a rocker is hitting a valve cover it will leave witness marks, but it is common for roller rockers to contact the intake side of the covers and we've had to remove material from than area on some types for clearance.

If you're engine doesn't like vacuum advance at light part throttle the cam isn't big enough, or on a tight LSA with advanced/early intake closing.

I've also found engines that don't like much timing from the vacuum unit are also not wanting or liking a lot of total mechanical timing and a quick advance curve........Cliff

[dmac]

Try a 50 weight oil. If it is internal, it should at least quiet a little. If it is an exhaust leak, it will be the same.

[Dragncar]

You could add a qt of Lucas oil treatment and see if the sound changes. Let you know to keep looking in the engine or other things like exhaust.
I feel for ya. You been through a lot with that engine. Others might have thrown a LS in there.
Be a die hard. We are cooler.

[glhs#116]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Others might have thrown a LS in there.
Be a die hard. We are cooler.

Wash your mouth!



Sam

[Scott Stoneburg]

I assume you have tried adjusting the valves to see if the noise gets any quieter.

[steve25]

Use the stethoscope 3/4" heater hose method to try and pin down where the noise is.

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

So what cam is in it?
Rocker ratio?
Compression ratio?

[glhs#116]

Originally Posted by STEELCITYFIREBIRD

So what cam is in it?
Rocker ratio?
Compression ratio?

Voodoo 703 (already had one)
1.5
10.5:1 Edelbrock 87cc on 455 +.030

I know the cam is small for the compression. It’s what I had

Sam

[pastry_chef]

Originally Posted by glhs#116

The cam is the Lunati 703 that I had sitting on the shelf. It is, by all accounts, about as small a cam as heads like these should use but should be just about big enough

You may have seen this Sam.
455 dyno with Voodoo 703, stock cast iron dports using 9.2 compression, RA exhaust manifolds with 2 1/4" outlets. Worth reading Paul's post there.
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=776169

For a shelf cam pick hyd flat I'd might have gone with a 704 personally.

Too bad Ken isn't here, he was awesome. Here is a 455 using stock KRE dports and a smallish 231 @ .050 hydraulic roller.

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

I Track tested the same cam profile with a different LSA. The 110 LSA ran quicker then the 112 LSA.

66 bonne with a [email protected] Comp Cam and out of the box heads ran 11.50 in a 4000 lb car with a 110 LSA.

Gary H ran a Voodoo 702 in a 9.6 compression cast iron head 455.

I recently built a 4.250 stroked 400 engine with 6X-4 heads using the Vodoo 702 cam. The customer really wanted low end power and couldn't care less about the upper RPM range. He does't hot rod the car much, just likes to lay into it from stop light to stop light occasionally. Compression ratio wound up around 9.6 if I remember right. The engine made 453 hp @ around 4900 and 590 lbs of torque. Very responsive on the street and with the seat of the pants feel, but it's done power wise at around 5000 rpm. Really what he was looking for in this situation.

[TAQuest]

Videos don't correctly convey the sound. Been there done that here. You can't hear it the same over a recording. Impossible to troubleshoot from a recording of a tick.

Had this same sort of thing and it was the brand new set of lifters with my Voodoo cam. Tossed the junk lifters from Lunati and the cam, now my engine is quiet.

Looking back, the only hint I had during assembly was that the Lunati lifters compressed really easy as compared to the ones that came with the Edelbrock cam.

Bad parts out there. Lots of them. You have to try and guess which part was bad.

The biggest mistake you can make is to ignore the sound. Don't take that advice, it's bad. It would be like putting tape over a warning light.

[TAQuest]

I want to add that I'm not totally sure it was the lifters, it could have actually been the cam itself, the Voodoo '703. I got rid of the cam and lifters and the tick went away.

[pastry_chef]

Sam is using Howard's lifters.