[Two_70_Converts]

Good thing we have PHS.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/153816855774?ul_noapp=true

[TAKerry]

Guys from Orlando, wonder if he worked/works at Disney doing this kind of thing. I was at a motorcycle show a few years ago and there was an "original paint" very early Harley. As my brother and I were looking it over we reached the conclusion that it just didn't look right. Another fellow showed up and too was very suspicious. Turned out he worked for Disney and said he built 'relic'd' pieces as his job.

[dataway]

Incredible the amount of shenanigans on ebay these days when it comes to vintage cars. Literally half the NOS parts listed are reproductions.

I was into vintage motorcycles for many years ... not nearly the level of dishonesty. Although that market was driven by vintage Harley parts for decades, screw some of those guys and they'll come burn your house down

[Greg Reid]

It's like when you see parts on ebay listed as NOS. Pic shows the part and the GM box but when you recieve it, you didn't get the box? Kinda makes you go, Hmmmm...

[dataway]

I see so many items that make the claim they were sold loose bulk in a GM box originally, so the box is not included ... when I have the very same NOS part, in it's original single serving box. I suppose some are perhaps sold both ways, but lots of these guys seem to have an absolutely endless supply of NOS "bulk" parts, not showing a bit of shelf wear.

I've gotten where my first go-to is always quality used original parts from forum members and the seldom found reasonably priced NOS still in the box or wrapped in the original wax paper.

I recently emailed an ebay guy selling a used 68 GTO/FB 400 "HO" air cleaner base that what he actually had was a standard B body, long air horn piece used on B bodies and Temp/FB 350 4bbl models .... he had it listed for $499 He responded with the part number ... easy enough to look up ... yep, just a basic 68 air cleaner base. Still listed with the same description and price.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

It's like when you see parts on ebay listed as NOS. Pic shows the part and the GM box but when you recieve it, you didn't get the box? Kinda makes you go, Hmmmm...

often the listing will show a box in the background (ect), but no mention of the box;
The box, or the appearance of a box seems to draw up bidding;
The key is the description - if it says it comes in the original box, then hopefully you're good - if it doesn't say it, don't assume it.
I have seen people get burned because they thought the item was NOS including the box, or thought the box was original to the part.

Some of the people who have been tricked I feel for, while others, who seem to go beyond belittling (the assertion that what they have isn't authentic), I feel less sorry for...

[Chief of the 60's]

Its not just with build sheets. I'm seeing a growing number of people looking for real nice or proper patina used parts to "fake" a survivor. With the price of real survivor cars skyrocketing it was only a matter of time con-men would infiltrate that segment of the collector car world.

[1965gp]

I can see that- if I had a survivor car (I guess my 68 is kind of a survivor) I can understand not wanting new looking parts on a survivor car.

Now- to MAKE a survivor car is a completely different scenario

[Chief of the 60's]

About a year ago there was a gold '64 GTO on Ebay listed as a 100% all original "survivor". There was a thread on PY about it. The seller's user name sounded familiar so I did some research. He had purchased quite a few front end parts for that car because it was wrecked. 100% all original "survivor".

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

often the listing will show a box in the background (ect), but no mention of the box;
The box, or the appearance of a box seems to draw up bidding;
The key is the description - if it says it comes in the original box, then hopefully you're good - if it doesn't say it, don't assume it.
I have seen people get burned because they thought the item was NOS including the box, or thought the box was original to the part.

Some of the people who have been tricked I feel for, while others, who seem to go beyond belittling (the assertion that what they have isn't authentic), I feel less sorry for...

In my particular case...and I can't even remember what it was...I didn't really care if it was NOS or not and wasn't looking specifically for NOS, I just noticed that pics showed the parts in the GM box and listed as NOS...So, icing on the cake...but no box when it arrived. It was something small like a bezel or something. The NOS claim definitely caused me to show a preference for his particular item as opposed to the others. So, I guess it works.

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

often the listing will show a box in the background (ect), but no mention of the box;
The box, or the appearance of a box seems to draw up bidding;
The key is the description - if it says it comes in the original box, then hopefully you're good - if it doesn't say it, don't assume it.
I have seen people get burned because they thought the item was NOS including the box, or thought the box was original to the part.

Some of the people who have been tricked I feel for, while others, who seem to go beyond belittling (the assertion that what they have isn't authentic), I feel less sorry for...

If there is a photo of a box it must come with that box or buyer protection kicks in and the seller must take it back.

Now, if it shows a box with no part number, then it is up to the potential buyer to ask all necessary questions as to whether it is the "original" box. There is (or was) a Tempest nameplate listed as NOS with a GM box. Problem is that if you looked closely you would see that the box is about a 1/2" shorter than the nameplate.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

If there is a photo of a box it must come with that box or buyer protection kicks in and the seller must take it back.

Now, if it shows a box with no part number, then it is up to the potential buyer to ask all necessary questions as to whether it is the "original" box. There is (or was) a Tempest nameplate listed as NOS with a GM box. Problem is that if you looked closely you would see that the box is about a 1/2" shorter than the nameplate.

check out this listing:

Shifter ball

Really read it...
It will become apparent that it appears in presentation to be NOS, but in fact is nothing of the sort - it's almost a devious type of sneaky...

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

check out this listing:

Shifter ball

Really read it...
It will become apparent that it appears in presentation to be NOS, but in fact is nothing of the sort - it's almost a devious type of sneaky...

Note that he does not show the end of the box with the part number. It is up to the potential buyer to verify if that box is the "original" box with the original GM part number for that part.

Now, as far as the part actually being a GM part, that is once again up to the buyer to know his chit by the photo and pass or can expertly and clearly dispute it if he buys it and finds out afterwards.

It rarely happens to me but I have been screwed and successfully disputed it. However, I am stuck with 1 part that, even though I'm sure its a repop, I cannot 100% prove it. In these cases you just suck it up and move on.

[Chief of the 60's]

Keep in mind that not everybody that has a possibly shady listing is a scammer. Some people have items they know nothing or not much about but list them based on what they believe or have been told. In my case with my 1 item, the seller is experienced, knows what he has and knew exactly what he was doing (scamming).

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

Note that he does not show the end of the box with the part number. ...

LOL

you missed it, and he got you too!

There is no part number, only jiffy marker saying "3 spd ball";
in the description it says it's an NOS Hurst ball, but the implication with the pictures is that it's a GM ball.

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

LOL

you missed it, and he got you too!

There is no part number, only jiffy marker saying "3 spd ball";
in the description it says it's an NOS Hurst ball, but the implication with the pictures is that it's a GM ball.

No, I saw the hand written words and I can show you dozens of boxes like that with the real deal parts inside. One should never go off of what is written on a box. I scored some good deals that way.

The seller putting "3 Speed Ball" on the box does not cover his ass.

I get what you're saying but he could be forced into taking it back.

[geeteeohguy]

Repro build sheet= straight up fraud, IMO. No other reason to have one.

[TAKerry]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

Repro build sheet= straight up fraud, IMO. No other reason to have one.

Not necessarily, My 77 had been gone though a couple of times before I bought it, so no dice on the build sheet. I would very much like to have one for it just because, nothing nefarious. Although I am not sure I would want it to be weathered and come with a couple of rusty hog rings! That kinda thing does sound shady.

[Chief of the 60's]

Build sheets add value whether real of fake and if its fake its fraud.

[Aluminum Chief]

Originally Posted by Two_70_Converts

Good thing we have PHS.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/153816855774?ul_noapp=true

I ran into this issue of fake build sheets a couple of years ago when searching for a LS 6 Chevelle. Lucky for me I got lots of help from Dale the guy that runs the LS 6 registry.
He looked over build sheets for me via e mail and spotted numerous fakes.
Some of them from Classic car places on e bay.
It was very discouraging weeding thru all the thieves'
I finally found a unrestored original in Ohio and got Dale`s blessing on all the paper work.

So yes we are very fortunate to have Jim Mattison & PHS..