[propuckstopper]

Greetings all. Well, I had a bit of a disappointing evening. I had my 1965 GTO out tonight for a nice highway drive. I would estimate the drive was about an hour or so long at 60 or 65 MPH. Just as I was getting very close to home, I noticed a knocking sound upon acceleration. This noise was more pronounced with greater acceleration, so I laid off the throttle and nursed it the rest of the half mile home. Thank gosh I was so close to home when this happened.

The important thing to note here is that it ran great all night, and only knocked for a very short time before I shut it off. Just before shut off, the oil pressure was about 15 pounds at idle. I have never, ever seen it that low. To me, it sounds like a bottom end noise, like a bearing.

So, I brought it into the garage and let it cool for awhile as I pondered what this new knock might be. This engine was completely gone through five years ago and has run great until a few weeks ago when it started surging at lower rpm. I do not think the surging is in any way related to the knocking. I am only mentioning the surging because I posted here a few weeks ago looking for advice on that minor issue.

Anyway, a week or so ago I had to install a brand new oil filter adapter (reproduction) as oil was leaking on to the top of the filter. Upon inspection, I found that the original oil filter adapter had a small crack in the 1/4" NPT threads where the sending unit threads into. It caused the brass fitting to be loose in the threads, hence the leak.

My question is this: could a new reproduction oil filter adapter fail in such a way as to cause a bearing failure? The reproduction oil filter adapter looked identical to the original one and had the bypass in place.

Please advise. I am wondering if this is just a coincidence, or should I be looking hard at the new adapter?

[steve25]

You now shoukd be looking for the source of that what could be that distructive knock.

First with the motor at idle pull or look into the passenger side valve cover to see if you have oil coming into the rockers since this upper side of the motor receivers oil last this is a good check for oil flow conditions, if you do not then shut the motor down, if you do have oil flow then warm it up at idle or light driving until the knock starts.

Next pull each plug wire off one at s time to see if the knock goes away, if it does then it's time to pull the motor to see what's going on before far greater damage takes place .

[PAUL K]

I'd cut the oil filter apart first. If it's a main or rod bearing it will have a lot of metal in it. If it's packed with metal it's time to pull the engine. I wouldn't start it again as any more run time will make any damage worse.

[Formulas]

"Next pull each plug wire off one at s time to see if the knock goes away, if it does then it's time to pull the motor to see what's going on before far greater damage takes place ."

If your pretty positive you have a rod knock.
The sound of a large hammer beating your engine internally
And want to prevent damage and possibly total destruction of the crank, block and other items the last thing you want to do is run it anymore

It's going to be easy to tell which cylinder it is later and at this point in time it doesn't even matter

[n20ta2]

Yeah don't run it anymore. Like mentioned cut that filter apart and look for shavings first.

[sdbob]

Drain oil,inspect closely.

[propuckstopper]

Originally Posted by n20ta2

Yeah don't run it anymore. Like mentioned cut that filter apart and look for shavings first.

Hi guys. Thanks for your replies. I cut the filter open, and indeed there looks to be a bearing issue. The oil is very coppery in colour and you can see copper flecks in the oil.

As far as I can see, there are no magnetic particles or chunks of metal in the filter, so I am hoping this is a very good sign that I got it shut off in time. The filter media actually looked very clean, save for the obvious copper-orange colour tinge. I actually thought the media was going to be full of shrapnel, to be honest. But it is not.

So, the engine must now be removed for inspection. The teardown should reveal the problem, of course.

I realize that my original question doesn't really matter now, but I am still very curious as to whether there is a possibility that changing the oil filter adapter lead to this failure.

Any opinions?

[Formulas]

When you get eyes on bearings you will be able to tell more if it was starvation or to much compression / bad tune or possibly something else and then it's just an educated guess still

On tear down check to see how much torque it takes to remove bolts that are in problem area although that could be affected by knocking vibes

[Gary H]

Did you get the new gasket on properly? If not, it could have restricted the flow.

[propuckstopper]

Originally Posted by Gary H

Did you get the new gasket on properly? If not, it could have restricted the flow.

Hi Gary. I am about positive I got the new gasket on correctly as I looked very carefully at the old one for orientation before I removed it.

[nachomax]

If it's an auto transmission, check your torque converter bolts. Had them come lose and started to make noise similar to a rod knock.

[steve25]

He mentions his oil pressure now at 15 down from a previous higher number so I am at a loss to see how the torque converter bolts could be involved.

[Sirrotica]

Many of the replacement oil filter adapters do not have a by pass valve, they have eliminated it to force 100% of the oil through the oil filter and allow no provision for a restricted filter. It also causes more pressure on the filter media. If the filter media was ruptured after it had collected a fair amount of particulate it can dump all the particulate into the oil system. This theoretically could cause internal engine damage. A very restrictive filter could also starve the bottom end of the engine at high RPM. Two ways that eliminating the by pass valve can damage an engine.

The surging you mentioned could also be caused by lean fuel air mixtures causing detonation, which will eventually hammer engine bearings, rods first and then main bearings.

I do not like the idea of blocking, or eliminating the oil by pass in an effort to filter 100% of the oil. There are people that swear it hasn't hurt their engines, but by the same token, did it help anything?

If you want a filter that filters 100% of the oil that is sent to it, there is a better option, a by pass oil filter. A by pass filter also filters a minimum of 10 times finer particulate than any full flow filter can physically eliminate from the oil.

Anyway, there are two possibilities that in theory could have been detrimental to the engine bearings. One does have to do with substituting an aftermarket oil filter adapter for the OEM part, one has to do with a lean fuel air mixture.

As has already been echoed, running the engine with proof of bearing damage isn't going to benefit anything. If there is an audible knock the crank is already out of round and will require replacement, or being machined, and repair, or replacement of the attendant pieces. The engine is already contaminated with bearing materials so it will need the foreign material flushed and removed from all the internal passages in the oil system.

[propuckstopper]

Hi Brad. You mention that one of the possibilities here could involve the new adapter. So I guess my question is what could be wrong with the adapter to cause this issue, if in fact the new adapter is the culprit?

The new adapter definitely had the bypass, and visually the original adapter and the new one were identical.

[Sirrotica]

As I said in my post, many of the replacements come without the by pass feature, they are available with and without a by pass valve feature. I know Kauffman's replacement doesn't have a by pass valve incorporated. If your's appears identical to the OEM, and has a by pass valve, then that wouldn't be the cause of bearing failure.

Examination of the failed parts will have to tell the story, per your post, you've eliminated the missing by pass valve as a cause.

[SRR]

When you pull the engine remove the oil pan without flipping the engine over to see what kind of debris is at the bottom. It really sucks that this happened to you. I'm wondering if something fell into the oil passage when you changed the adapter without you knowing it.

[BB70]

Check the adapter closely for casting flash restricting the passage way of oil.

[NeighborsComplaint]

That is a real bummer. If the adaptor is found to be defective, it just makes it that much worse. You'll likely wind up with a complete teardown in addition to replacing rod and main bearings along with machining the crankshaft and replacing the oil pump. You need to clean the oil galleys of any debris from the failed bearing(s). I feel for you.

[propuckstopper]

Thanks to all of you for your replies. This certainly does suck, but I have to look at the bright side to where I got it shut off so quickly. It is much better than a rod through the side of the block, anyway.

I m working on removing the engine as we speak and hope to have it out over the next few days (still have to work in the office!)

I will keep everyone posted as to our findings.

Thanks again!

[SRR]

Pictures!