[besserspat]

Hey guys, haven't been here for a little while, didn't know where to post this, and thought it would be fun to gauge your opinions...

So lets say this is NOT your only collector car , but you have this neglected late 70s F-body sitting in the corner of the shop.

Lets pretend its a Firebird, but could be a Camaro too.

What would you rather have:

A 500hp Poncho or BBC power and automatic (Th350,400 )

or

A 300hp Poncho or SBC power and Manual , 4 Speed ( ST-10, Muncie , etc)


Just curious to see what you guys think.

[dataway]

Spent a lot of time with a friend while I was in the Navy that had a 76-78 rally sport camaro with a 350 and a manual 4 speed ... that car was a hoot. This was in about 1979 so it was still fresh, handled very nicely and moved along pretty nicely too. Posi rear but I don't know what ratio.

[Murf]

I’d want the 500 HP & the stick.

If I can’t have that, anything with a stick. I think 400-450 with a 5 speed would be just right for a fun driver.

Murf


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Chief of the 60's]

Tough call.

I own a few race cars so you would think I'd lean towards high horse.

But I also owned a 1987 Formula Firebird, Tuned-Port Injected with a 5 speed. That whopping 205 (maybe 210) horse felt damn good running through the gears. Felt like a lot more horse than it had. A lot of fun to drive.

[ponyakr]

Always liked the 4-speed stick cars I drove, on the street. Fun to pop the clutch & bark the tires.

But, if I planned any serious street/strip combo driving, an auto trans is a must, for any kind of breakout racing.

There is still an occasional stick car win, in Stock Elim racing. But, they are a VERY low percentage. Not saying that driving a stick is not more fun. Just saying that your chance of winning races is MUCH lower.

And, as far as having a 500hp, long stroke engine in a street car, with any kind of hard rubber street tires, traction is basically non-existent.

[Half-Inch Stud]

GTOs; 455+ and a Planetary Transmission of any sort.

70s F-bodies; Strong 400 with Stick shift of any sort, for Street. Auto for autocross and Drag.

[besserspat]

Thanks for the replies so far , I dont know if It getting old or the fact thay now you can buy a 10 seconds ET electric car , but my thirst for 600hp street cars has somewhat faded over the last few years.

We live in a world or bigger, better , faster and for various reasons ( social media, product placement in magazines, and marketing) and being competitive makes you want to be faster than the guy in the other lane.

I still have some decently fast cars and motorcycles . But I find there is a point of diminishing return regarding the spending vs the pleasure you get out of it.

What got me into american muscle ( always been a jeep and motorcycle guy) was my first Camaro , a 1980 z28 was just a 350 auto and damn we had fun with it, I had a whole slew of fbodys Pontiacs and Chev all generations...

I see guys running 10 seconds cars , turbo LsX, etc ... while what really got me into muscle cars were 250hp SBC and 350 BBC and Pontiacs...

Maybe I am just trying to go back to tte basics in a world thats getting very complex?....I bought a little hobby farm last year , maybe thats influencing me lol ...

[tjs72lemans]

I prefer the auto. I sold my warmed up 75 Camaro I owned for 40 years a couple years ago. It had a 350 with about 330hp with the 350 turbo auto and it was a blast to drive. I still own a 55 Chevy I've owned for 43 years with a 327 and a 4 speed. It's fun to drive, but I still enjoyed cruising in the Camaro with the auto. It was fun to shift manually and get the tires chirping.

[Formulas]

The sweet spot for me is a warmed over 67-70 4bbl engine slightly ported bowl blended heads a decent cam upsize, headers, good ignition and carb tune 3.55-3.73 gear, 4-speed, drag radials.

You dont need a sunoco tanker following you and it's reliable

There will always be a bigger dog out there somewhere no matter what YOUR driving

[dataway]

What I liked so much about this guys Camaro was that you could thrash it in an exhilarating way without the pit falls of big hp that require a ton of focus. Something in between a European sports car and a muscle car. This kid routinely wound it up to 7,000 rpm and even with the stock engine it would get your attention, wouldn't scare you, but would certainly make you smile.
Another Navy friend had a first gen firebird with an LT-1, T-10, 3:93 posi, total ass dragging the ground rust bucket, he sure surprised a lot of guys at redlights with that car. Still had the OHC-6 badges on it

[PontiacJim1959]

500HP is too much for the street if enjoying a long ride to a car show or event, around town, or simply a Sunday cruise. A 4-speed is always a favorite but with all the stop lights and stop-go traffic in my area, a manual trans can become annoying.

300HP/Auto can be fun and peppy - gotta have a trans with a good stall converter, trans shift kit, and the capability to manual shift the auto when I choose to. So the 300HP/auto would be my choice for a cruising car I would drive 5-10K miles a year.

500HP/manual would be my pic for a local show&go car, Friday night tear up the town type car and only put 1-3K miles a year on it.

[1968GTO421]

My thanks to the OP for starting this fun thread. If someone was in the process of building their car, there are some great thoughts here on fun vs power to think about during the build.

[besserspat]

I think what motivates the question is the so called " plus" system in place.

Like myself some of you guys mentioned that a 2-300 hp car was plenty fun back then and now we need 4-500 because its available or the new norm.

I owned a race shop for many years and still do race fabrication work, and even in that area , I feel drawn over to lower hp , simpler and cheaper to build/maintain set-ups.

When I say the "plus" system , I refer to :

lets put a cam in that car...but now "need" better heads... now "need" different headers and exhausts... dont forget a new fuel system!

Now we need a built transmission to cope with the extra TQ ( especially true with manual transmissions)

Now we need a stronger drive shaft and joints, and while installing better gears lets change the axles and limited slip carrier...

and not even talking about chassis and suspension or brakes...

When I look back , I have made (but also spent) lots of money with people stuck into the "plus" spiral...

I kinda miss the cars we were able to trash around forever because they didnt have enough pawer to explode the stock parts....Hot rodding with just headers, a better clutch or a 200$ torque converter... When improving our rides with 10$ distributor recurve kits , 25$ carb kits , and 50$ shift kits!

Doing your brakes sitting in the driveway with 17$ rotors and 15$ brake linings

[vertigto]

If answering the question with only the two options listed - 500hp TH400.

[72projectbird]

500hp auto.

Manuals are fun, but I love a hard hitting, crisp shifting, high stalled automatic.

[ErikW]

Originally Posted by dataway

Spent a l ot of time with a friend while I was in the Navy that had a 76-78 rally sport camaro with a 350 and a manual 4 speed ... that car was a hoot. This was in about 1979 so it was still fresh, handled very nicely and moved along pretty nicely too. Posi rear but I don't know what ratio.

I had a similar scenario. My buddy was in the Army, he had a 70 1/2 RA III 400, 4 speed Formula. Manual steering, manual brakes, no A/C. That car was a blast to drive and ride in. We won many a street race with that car. So, 300ish HP manual all day long for me.

[i82much]

Been a few years since I last checked, but I just looked in the mirror - still got hair on my *ss, so I’ll go with the stick shift

[Formulajones]

I'm lucky enough to have both of those options here to drive.

I can tell you without a doubt the stick is much more fun to drive.

[besserspat]

is it a 300 hp stick?

[Formulajones]

Well we have 4 stick cars here that range from about 300 hp to 400 hp.

The rest are autos that range from 350 hp to over 700 hp.


Don't get me wrong, the big HP autos are pretty fun to drive, but I really enjoy rowing my own gears, both on the street and at the track.