[RocktimusPryme]

Im not really looking for much in the way of advice, Im just venting. Freak occurrence. I guess Im lucky it seemed to occur on startup rather than driving.

After Thanksgiving dinner I decided to load up the dog and take a holiday ride. Got in the FIrebird, didnt want to start. Which is strange. After a couple failed attempts I got out and started poking around. Thought maybe a vacuum hose or something had some loose the way it was acting.

Went to remove the air cleaner, the wingnut was sitting on top, but I could see there was no stud and my heart dropped. Removed all the plugs and none were damaged. After looking with my borescope I finally found it wedged into the #7 intake valve.

Stupid. I have a very short stud because of low hood clearance. And it must have worked its way out. I guess ill start loctighting in air cleaner studs.

I *think* that initially it wasnt in the valve but was holding the butterflies open before it worked its way lower. The fact that it never fired off might have saved me from total catastrophe. I can see where it just barely kissed the piston but I dont see any evidence the valve hit the piston. Still, thats my big concern at this point, the valve being bent and or the valve seat being damaged. Im not overly concerned about the small mark in the piston. I would obviously prefer the piston to not have been hit at all, but I dont think it warrants blowing the engine apart.

Long story short I removed the intake and driver valve cover. I was able to rotate the engine until the #7 intake opened further than it was wedged and pulled out the stud with a magnet.

Of course nobody has RA-IV size intake gaskets in stock locally so I had to order a set. I think the plan is to bang it back together, and then do a leakdown and or compression test in the cylinder. If it tests fine Im just going to send it. The valve seems to open and close normally from a visual standpoint.

Silver lining, with the intake off Im going to separate the water passage. Ive wanted to do that forever but didnt want to take the intake off just for that.

Whats the best cutting tool to get that done? Jigsaw? Its an aluminum RPM.

[zippy]

Oh man that sucks, but hopefully it didn't bend the valve

[Formulas]

On ocassion when i use all'thread cut to length for a air cleaner stud i will run a nylon loc'nut down against the carb top.

make sure the top of the piston didn't take a hit above a ring pinching a ring, should be easy to tell

good luck nows a chance to make it better than before

[steve25]

Yes you got lucky!
Before you potentially waste time in bolting the intake back on I would bring 7 to TDC and pour some engine oil at room temp down that intake runner and see if it leaks into the chamber .
If it does then it’s time to pull that head.

[kingbuzzo]

Oh gosh, mine is super loose...thanks for bringing this up and hopefully she is ok

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by steve25

Yes you got lucky!
Before you potentially waste time in bolting the intake back on I would bring 7 to TDC and pour some engine oil at room temp down that intake runner and see if it leaks into the chamber .
If it does then it’s time to pull that head.

I just did that. Nothing immediately leaking but Ill let it sit while I go run errands. Easy idea to try. Thanks

Hard to consider myself lucky when such a bad thing happened, but I guess it could have been worse.

[Scarebird]

Originally Posted by steve25

...I would bring 7 to TDC and pour some engine oil at room temp down that intake runner and see if it leaks into the chamber...

Why not just back off both rockers and do a leakdown?

No oil mess to contend with afterward.

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by Scarebird

Why not just back off both rockers and do a leakdown?

No oil mess to contend with afterward.

I’m probably going to do that. But I don’t own one. So the oil test was convenient until I go buy a tool.

[Formulas]

if you have compressed air you can usually use a hose from a compression tester connected to shop air pressurizing the cylinder without rocker arms to see if anything major is going on

[72projectbird]

Slap it back together, and compression check it. If it's building compression, and you don't hear air leaking out thru the intake, run it.

[Formulas]

heck with rocker arms on and no intake you can just crank engine over with starter and see if it pumps back into the port

[mysticmissle]

Sorry to hear yes a jig saw will work rpm's are a bitch to cut off
I generally use a large hack saw w a pretty course blade and some wd40 then hit the edges w grinder and one of those layered 80 grit grinding discs

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by mysticmissle

Sorry to hear yes a jig saw will work rpm's are a bitch to cut off
I generally use a large hack saw w a pretty course blade and some wd40 then hit the edges w grinder and one of those layered 80 grit grinding discs

Yeah, it does look way harder than other intakes. But its still just aluminum so shouldnt be hard to cut. I may try the hacksaw before the power tool.

[steve25]

At times I have drilled a bunch of holes in hard to get at areas to use a saw on.
You drill the holes close enough and or big enough to just snap the crossover off once the other cuts are done.
Think of it like perforations.

[tooski]

Something similar happened to me. It was the washer under the wing nut that somehow got in. The engine was running slightly rougher, hard time idling, with some popping in the exhaust. I did a compression test. One cylinder was down to 170. All the rest were 175/180. I didn't expect that to be a concern. Anyhow I took the head off and found the intake valve was leaking slightly. Turned out the seat was damaged and required repair.

[steve25]

Yes, the stud was likely use plain 1025 steel which is not as hard as the valve itself, but the cast iron is a different story.

[67Lemons]

Sorry to hear this but what’s the best method of securing the carb stud so this doesn’t happen? I see one person mentioning the locking nut on the carb air horn but seems like the stud could still vibrate loose eventually?

[AG]

It could always be worse.

[RocktimusPryme]

Well, it’s officially leaking.

I had the thought that I have one of the air tools that let you change valve springs with the heads installed. So I put that on and pumped about 10 psi through it. That oil I put in there earlier started bubbling. The oil lever leaked so it must be small.

I’m so disgusted with the situation I want to light the whole car on fire. I always said i wanted to add more cam and a single plane if I pulled any of it apart. But this close to Christmas that would be a poor financial idea.

I called my local machine shop and they said they had the availability to help me. So I guess I’ll pull the head and drop it off with them on Monday. The repair itself won’t cost all that much but it’s a pain in the neck amount of work.

Terry Cummins who owns the machine shop and has been around forever tried to commiserate with me. He said they see it all the time where nuts and bolts go through the engine and he had done it himself.

Anyone have headgasket recommendations for the older bathtub style round port E Heads? FelPro 1016? Can I reuse my head bolts?

[b-man]

Carefully use a hacksaw to part it at the flange. Don’t cut it in the middle between the water port and intake port, stay closer to the water port. You can get the cuts nice and straight here if you’re patient.

Next I would follow Steve’s advice and drill a series of holes right next to each other.

Some heavy files and a lot of elbow grease will get you the rest of the way through it.

Honestly it’s a ton of work. I did this to a Torker II using a band saw. Once the crossover was separated I dove in with a series of cuts to remove all I could. Many hours of filing and sore hands finished it off most of the way, fine files and sanding finished it.

I also removed the exhaust crossover.

Never again.

Juice ain’t worth the squeeze unless you’re doing a super precise intake port alignment on a race engine where the intake gets removed frequently.

I’ve seen so many intakes where the flange was cut in the wrong place essentially ruining it. Also when it’s time to sell most people prefer uncut intakes.