[unruhjonny]

There is a neat article of a 'survivor' 1966 Beaumont SD396 in the fall-2025 issue of 'Musclecars; Bone stock & modified'.

This car apparently will be at the upcoming MCACN.

I reached out to members of 'Canadian Poncho' who specialize in this subject matter (they are all about Canadian built Pontiacs, under which Beaumonts and Acadians fall) and I was told that the transmission in this car is a 'T-16' Borg Warner three speed.

I had previously recorded that Chevrolet (and Canadian Pontiac's) used the 'T-16' for 1965 through 1968.

I have been trying for some time to compile three speed information to make sense of it all - because this is information which I believe is being lost.

One of the things that doesn't help to clarify GM's components is the use and re-use of UPC/RPO's;

Question: Is 'T-16' a GM product code?

I am asking this because it reads (from overlap in my own notes) that the 'T-16' might be an alternate code for Borg Warner's 'T-85'.

I found the following picture of what is said to be a T-16:

(image attached incase the hotlink dies.)

This image appears to match what I have found about the T-85, which I am understanding was the basis of the T-10 four speed (The T-85 is even referenced as the precursor to the T-10 in the "Muncie 4-speed" book put out several years ago by Car-Tech).

It seems that google searches are becoming less and less relevant, because I continue to be unable to find information of any substance;
I couldn't find any any information of substance regarding a BW T-16.

Thanks in advance to anyone who might be able to offer information to give me some clarity.

[johnta1]

I would think that is a B/W code.
It is not a Pontiac code I don't think.
It would probably be like M13/M-13?


I also thought the 3 speed was a Ford Top-loader? (Pontiac HD anyway)

[unruhjonny]

it reads as though Pontiac used the Borg Warner T-85 from 1958-1964 and then went to the "Dearborn" (read: Ford) top loader for 1965-1969.

M13 is the UPC/RPO for a HD-3spd and not an indicator of the unit used.

I am expecting the T-16 to be a different unit than the T-85;
But look at that image of the T-16;
It absolutely looks like a T-10;
except the T-85 is cited as the precursor to the T-10.

Information on this 'T-16' is really hard to come by...

Maybe T-16 was a BW code for a GM variant of the T-85?

[OG68]

M-13 was used by Chevrolet to designate the HD 3 speed transmission. Borg Warner in this instance. And since the Beaumont used a Chevrolet power train, I'd expect it would have the Warner trans.

https://chevellestuff.net/1966/options.htm

1966 Beaumont specifications and 66 Chevelle transmission option codes attached

[unruhjonny]

ok great.

That tidbit might have a piece of the puzzle.

Unless my own notes are mistaken:

Warner T-85

• nine-bolt "D" shaped side cover
• non-synchronized first gear; synchronized 2nd & 3rd;
• Evolved into the T-10 (many sources cite this)

Warner T-16

• nine-bolt "D" shaped side cover
• fully synchronized
• Evolved into the T-10 ( <-this is my own assertion)

Assuming that the 'T-16' isn't just a code of a variant of the 'T-85' that (Borg) Warner manufactured exclusively for GM;
Is it possible that the 'T-16' is an evolution of the 'T-85' which differed in being fully synchronized?

I am seeing that Warner made (at the least) T-84, T-85, T-86, T-89 - and that's just the T-8x units I have in my file;
Like I said, I am in earnest trying to compile and make sense of all this...

It appears that the T-84/T-86 (& T90/T96) were from a different line of transmissions;
But one source that I found (which I am incline to think is mistaken) suggested that the T-86 started out with a side load case, then changed into a top load case in the mid 1950's ... ??

It also appears as though the T-85/T-89/T-16 might be from the same line - but the T-89 has an (earlier design??) staggered gear selector, so maybe it went:

T-89 (staggered gear selector)
V (evolved into the)
T-85 (aligned gear selector)
V (evolved into the)
T-16 (fully synchronized)
V (evolved into the)
T-10 (four speed)

I found one listing of a T-85 cased three speed with a T-89 side cover;
And with all these T-8x units it appears as though they could be assembled with or without an R10/R11 OD (the latter being a higher torque capacity unit);
So there is for sure interchangeability between the T-85/T-89... but the T-16... ????

Any further thoughts or input would be appreciated...

[Held for Ransom]

Here...

[imposter]

so what's the difference between the

T-16
M-13

[unruhjonny]

M-13 is an RPO;
RPO = Regular Production Order

An RPO doesn't indicate the end item, but instead a generic description;
That generic description was defined by the vehicle and model year.

From my research, M-13 was used by all divisions for many years to indicate "heavy duty "three speed synchromesh (manual) transmission";
There are the odd exceptions like 1969 where Chevrolet used MC1 to denote specifically which HD-3spd was to be used - in that instance it was the new Muncie three speed.

T-16 should be the BW product code.

regarding my prior post in this thread;
From a little more research my suggested progression appears to be wholly in error...