[Pigeon]

Hi Guys
Simple question, I have a naturally aspirated single 4bbl 4150/1050 cfm, 488 cu in my GTO. Automatic foot brake, 12.5:1 compression and I use 110 octane VP.
The carb is by ATM Innovations, it’s fantastic.
If I send it back and get it converted to E85 will my car be quicker and faster? Personnel best is 9.25 at 142.5 mph.
I figured if anyone should know it would be you!
Thanks Rich P

[SRGN]

E85 gains are more pronounced on boosted combos, I don't think you will gain much over your current fuel and combo. Your car is hauling pretty good, you might get more out of it with a converter change vs a fuel switch. You are getting close to where a 4500 flange carb would free up some power. With E85 you may also need to upgrade the fuel delivery system as you need about 35% more volume of fuel to make the same power.

[CraigG.]

More torque and about a 10th over 110 with a relatively heavy car 3300 in a 10 second bracket.

[Nacs Fab]

Originally Posted by SRGN

E85 gains are more pronounced on boosted combos, I don't think you will gain much over your current fuel and combo. Your car is hauling pretty good, you might get more out of it with a converter change vs a fuel switch. You are getting close to where a 4500 flange carb would free up some power. With E85 you may also need to upgrade the fuel delivery system as you need about 35% more volume of fuel to make the same power.

I would say the boosted gains is due to cooler IAT's. On my engine dyno simulator I've made 60+hp just switching the fuel (Boosted Application), but not sure if its absolutely true. They claim up to 5% - 15% HP Gains in a boosted application.

[johnta1]

Technically, the E85 should be quicker. (and run cooler)
Should be around 10% more HP. (properly done)

Your CR is good, could use more with the E85.
What's your dynamic CR? the higher would help also.

Methanol would be even better!

I'd say possibly 1-2 tenths with correct tuning for it. (E85)
I'd also say injection would be better, because it takes a lot more fuel flow to make the power at higher rpm range.

[Pigeon]

Thanks for the feedback
SRGN, my fuel system is an A1000 with large aeromotive filters and return regulator and I have AN10 braided stainless lines that are PTFE lined.
I’ve already done several torque converter combo’s and my 8” reworked by PTC is the best combo for my car so far.

[Pigeon]

Johntal, excuse my ignorance but I don’t know what dynamic compression is! LOL
Can you imagine if I go one tenth quicker! That’s just stupid fast! 9.15
By the way this whole car only exists to supply me with large doses of adrenaline!
Thanks Guys

[johnta1]

Try this:


Dynamic CR Calc

[CraigG.]

10% more HP in an NA?
Thanks, Craig

[johnta1]

I would say at least, technically it is about 25% or more BTU's at high RPM.
Whether or not one can use it is up to the circumstances.

[grandville455]

How much Hp now? 700? No way your picking up 70 hp from 110 to e85, at your level you might not pick up anything then a cooler running engine! How many seconds to fill a gallon now with current fuel setup?

[Pigeon]

So Johntal says 10% plus hp and grandville455 says maybe no gain at all! Wow! I just talked to ATM innovations and they said great idea and probably a tenth or more.
Grandville455 my fuel system is an A1000 with aeromotive filters and AN10 supply and return stainless ptfe stuff with an aeromotive regulator. I m hoping that will pump enough.
Johntal you mentioned dynamic compression does cranking compression come into play because I have 205 psi across the board.

[SRGN]

Originally Posted by Nacs Fab

I would say the boosted gains is due to cooler IAT's. On my engine dyno simulator I've made 60+hp just switching the fuel (Boosted Application), but not sure if its absolutely true. They claim up to 5% - 15% HP Gains in a boosted application.

Lower IAT and cooler combustion, 2 things that are conducive to power production in a boosted combo. E85 is a great fuel for boost, far more dramatic than the gains in an NA combo. I have zero experience with nitrous and E85, but wonder how it would work. Back in the old 5.0 vs Turbo Buick days, I was on the Buick side of things and have been a boost guy for decades. The other side loved nitrous, we all learned a lot from the rivalry there. Before I derail the thread, I'll go back to the original topic. I could be wrong, but I don't feel like there's going to be much gain over race fuel in this case.

[SRGN]

Originally Posted by Pigeon

Thanks for the feedback
SRGN, my fuel system is an A1000 with large aeromotive filters and return regulator and I have AN10 braided stainless lines that are PTFE lined.
I’ve already done several torque converter combo’s and my 8” reworked by PTC is the best combo for my car so far.

Fuel system should be enough from what you posted. What does your car 60' now? Vehicle weight? I'm not sold on gaining much from a fuel change, but I could be wrong. There's people on here that are smarter than me, that can probably offer advice too. Your car is hauling pretty good, I have also been in your shoes wanting just a little more. I've also hit the proverbial "wall" in ET that would require a ton of money to get past I don't think you have hit that point yet, just need to figure out how to get you going quicker.

[GOAT8U2]

You'll realistically see more like 2-5% NA depending on the current tune and timing etc.

You'll save way more money in fuel costs and the driving convenience of finding stations.

E85 is a bit of a PIA initially to convert, PTFE fuel lines, anodized/stainless fittings and don't let it sit for seasons without running the car etc etc, it is a bit more high maintenance.

[Pigeon]

SRGN, the car weighs right around 3100 lbs with me in the seat.
Best 60’ is 1.29,
Best ET 9.25
Best MPH 142.5
Foot Brake th400 with 2.75 first gear and 4.10 rear
16x33 hoosiers

[SRGN]

That car is moving really good, combo is pretty much dead on based on the incrementals. Hard to see anything that's holding you back at this point. If it was my car, I'd probably try a 4500 flange intake and carb, but it's not my money to spend. Seems you are a lot closer than I thought to that wall I referenced earlier.

[Pigeon]

SRGN
Thanks. I do realize the car is performing close to its max potential. I tried all the things I can afford to squeeze out all the juice. Simple things like small return springs on the disk brake pads and Hoosier front tires which weigh about the same as an inner tube, amazing unsprung weight savings. Anti Gravity battery saved a bunch of weight. All 4 corners have 5/16” rotors which reduced more unsprung weight savings. The 4.10:1 rear gear was necessary to keep the rpm under control at the finish line but it wasn’t enough gear reduction at the starting line so I switched to the 2.75 lower first gear which helped out a bunch. So I was hoping maybe E85 literally made more raw hp.
Or would a trans brake get me something?!?!
ATM innovations want about $550 to convert my 1050/4150 to E85 which includes changing the Boosters

[SRGN]

Personally, I'd rather have a second carb set up for E85 so I could switch back easily if I wasn't happy with the results. You would also need to buy a tester if you were going to use pump E85, the stuff around here tests at E77 most of the time and we have to change the tune accordingly. You might gain around a half a tenth in the 60' with a brake, which would likely be worth a tenth in the quarter. I'd ask ATM what they thought about a dominator flange carb on your combo. I'd love to see you pull an 8.9x out of the car, it's so close, but so far away at this point.

[Pigeon]

SRGN
The cost of a Dominator and a manifold is way above my budget since I’m retired and on the fixed income plan for life.
Your from central jersey so have you ever purchased E85 at Mighty Joes? I’m from south east PA and I m coming to understand the stuff is not available around here unless ChatGBT is misleading me.
Do you ever go to Cecil Co? You should come to Cecil some Friday for a test and tune to witness my flying circus in action. We roll in there several times a year like the Beverly Hillbillies with about a dozen friends just to fill my adrenaline tank. The best cardio you’ll ever get is making a low 9 second run when you’re 70 yrs old.