[yak]

i'm slowly losing a cam lobe on my comp xe294 in my 70 gto, want to replace it with a roller here's my specs

-1970 ra3 4 bolt main block 60 over,rebuilt in 2007, 3000 miles maybe on it
-comp xe294 cam - .519 .524 valve lift- .570 .575 with the 1.65 rockers- 294 306 dur.
-sd performance 310 cfm cnc ported hyd roller edelbrock heads 72 cc.2.11 int 1.66 exh
-keith black forged pistons
-aprox 10.03 compression ratio
-super comp hedders and 3 inch dual exhaust
-single plane edelbrock intake and holley 850ish cfm double pumper
-1970 gto, stock 4 gear close ratio muncie, 4.10 gears

i'll be pulling the engine to rebearing it, replace the oil pump and will replace the cam. looking at hydraulic and solid roller, not to picky there. kind of looking at the comp 288R solid roller....

[Scott Stoneburg]

I have tried a few cams in my combo. My current one is a lunati grind. 314 duration (260 ish @.050) .605 gross valve lift. Thats alot bigger .050 than you are using. I did like the comp cams 288 street roller I had. I cant remember the specs on it. But the performance was very close to the one im using now. My motor has a little less cylinder head but more compression.

[HWYSTR455]

The Crower 60451 comes to mind, and I suggest having it cut on a 112. You could probably go 110 on it if you wanted, but if you spend any time on the street, I would lean more towards 112.

http://www.crower.com/camshafts/pont...-cam-284r.html

I had one that was like 114 (113.5 I believe) and loved it. A little soft on the bottom, helps with traction, and really comes alive over 3000.

The 288R is a single profile at 244/244. I would personally avoid it with your combo. You're pretty much going to have to have one cut for you, there's not many off the shelf choices for Pontiacs.

You could also call Dave at SD and ask for a recommendation, sure he's got plenty of experience with your particular combo.

.

[Aaron Quinton]

I have a very similar set up in my Trans Am. I installed a 244 deg int/248 deg exh @ .050" lift comp cam. Intake lift is .603", exh is .633" on a 108 lsa. The car sounds great, is very streetable and makes really good power. I very happy with it. The grind # P-1476-4875.

[Steve C.]

Yak,
Don't be confined Comp Cams. May I suggest you condider calling Bullet Racing for a UltraDyne lobe or Lunati for a VooDoo lobe.

Here was a comment I made not long ago that relates............

Most VooDoo lobes, but not all, are the same as the origional lobes by Harold at UltraDyne.
If you prefer to stay away from the hassels of the Lunati conglomorate you can deal direct with Bullet Cams that have the old UltraDyne masters. They are very good people to deal with:
http://www.bulletcams.com/

Here is a tid bit about UltraDyne that may be of interest....

Although I have done only a few Buick cams, I have done an awful lot of Pontiacs and Oldsmobiles. Jim Butler, famed Pontiac engine builder, was my largest buyer of camshafts at UltraDyne, doing over $65,000 a year. He thought they worked very well, until the Recession of 2000 left us with an inability to keep him supplied.
As was said, I do all my cam designs as unsymmetrical cam designs. Although I design my hydraulics just like I do my roller profiles, The information I will give applies just to my hydraulic flat profiles.
Using Harvey Crane's Hydraulic Intensity formula, ALL my .842" tappet designs have an Hydraulic Intensity of 53.88 degrees.
This is the duration at .050" subtracted from the duration at .004", where the SAE has decided that hydraulic durations begin and end.
This Hydraulic Intensity of 53.88 is considered to be very aggressive, yet the cams do not have that 'sewing-machine' sound to them.
The opening side of the cam has a 45.26 degree equivalent Hydraulic Intensity, and the closing side is 62.50 degrees Hydaulic Intensity. The SEATING velocity of the valve is only 37% as fast as the OPENING velocity. This seating velocity is only slightly faster than GM uses on all their engines. At UltraDyne, I have had many hydraulic, as well as solids, go over 100,000 miles on the street. I keep the edge of the tappet about .018" away from the point of contact between the cam and tappet.
That 'sewing-machine' sound is caused by the valves hitting the valve seats too fast. The original High Energy cams, which I designed, produced that sound. I was shutting the valve at .0007"/*, only .0002"/* faster than GM. After hearing about the noise, a little thought made me realise the .0002"/* was only 40% faster than GM.
You do not have to shut the valve faster to keep the charge from getting out.
You have to design the cam so the charge, or inertia ram, is still filling the cylinder when you shut the valve.
Every cam I design, hydraulic, hydraulic roller, solid, solid roller, is designed using the same theory I have used for the past 29 years, and they all make excellent bottom-end torque for their duration.
I will keep checking in to continue to answer questions.
UDHarold


Now that said, here is a comment by Paul Carter whom I respect very much. He made a point about the VooDoo lobes that I was not aware of which was most appreciated....

The VooDoo lobes are not the same as the Ultradyne lobes. They are an upgraded design incorporating even more cam design tricks Harold discovered. Harold is a friend of mine and a very good friend of the guy I work with. They have been like best friends since Harold owned Ultradyne. I shared a hotel room with Harold and spent a lot of time with him at the PRI show last December. We spoke a lot about cams. He told me that the VooDoo design is an all new design he came up with. Not only are the lobes non-symmetrical, but they are also offset from the lobe centerline. This offset is why it's so critical to degree in these cams at least 4° advanced. They don't run so good straight up. This offset gives the engine the sense that it is running a cam 5-10° bigger at .050", yet maintains the torque and driveability of a cam 5-10° smaller @ .050". Most people don't understand this about these cams. They make great power! On the 233° @ .050" HFT lobe, with a 1.65 rocker arm, degreed at 106° ICL, the intake valve will be open .139" at TDC. Most HFT cams in that size range only have the valve open about .100" at this point. This lobe even has the valve open more at TDC than an equivalent size roller cam.

We[Jeff Koerner and myself] were talking to the head engine builder of Rousch-Yates at PRI. He was telling us about the Ultradyne lobes he uses for their engines. He stated that they are so stable on the valve train, that they only run 140 lbs. on the seat, and 450 lbs. over the nose on solid roller cammed engines that run up to 10,000 RPM. He said they have no valve train instability problems at all. Jeff asked him if he would like to meet Harold Brookshire. He said "I would love to meet Harold Brookshire". Jeff said, "well turn around, he's sitting right behind you". He was thrilled to meet Harold and they spoke for a while.
Harold's the man!

But personaly I still like dealing with Bullet Racing cams
Steve



.

[Hillard]

Yes I'm linking to this because i'm trying to sell this cam, but I do also firmly believe it would work great with your combo.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=763155

[yak]

Originally Posted by 1050goat

Yes I'm linking to this because i'm trying to sell this cam, but I do also firmly believe it would work great with your combo.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=763155

Ya I might be interested in your cam, would you ship to Canada?

[Hillard]

Originally Posted by yak

Ya I might be interested in your cam, would you ship to Canada?

Sure....I would need your zip code to calculate cost and I'll split at least some of the shipping cost with you.

[yak]

R0L-1Z0, is it ok to use solid roller lifters on hydraulic roller cam?

[Steve C.]

Some hydraulic roller cams have an opening ramp that's too aggressive to run with a solid roller lifter. You'll need to check with the cam company, so you don't run into any issues. And you will need to increase the valve spring pressure if you do, that and it needs to be run with a tight lash. Do your homework on the subject.


.

[Hillard]

I've used solid roller lifters on very similar lobes to this cam with no issues. Same series lobes but 242/248 duration. I used around 150 - 160 lbs. of seat pressure and .004" lash intake/.006" lash exhaust. Acutally I've installed solid rollers on about a dozen different hydraulic rollers, not one complaint yet. My plan was to use this in my personal motor with solids, but I ended up getting a 4.5" stroke crank so I have a lot more cubes now and need more cam.

I'm coming up with about $50 to ship it, I'll split it with you. So $350 gets it to your door.

[70bluegoat]

hope u dont mind if i join in i have a lunati hydralic drag race cam it says to intall at 106 is this the same as a voodoo cam been stting on myshelf for about four years ive been thinking about using it

[yak]

I'm undecided what to do here yet, might wrap my numbers matching motor in plastic and build a 400 stroker and put my top end on it...

[BruceWilkie]

Stroke difference WILL make a big difference in what valve timing will best suit your application. Plenty to consider regardless which way you go. As others suggested Dave at SD would be a good source of info for whichever route you go using his heads.

[Tim Corcoran]

[QUOTE=Steve C.;5293003]Yak,
Don't be confined Comp Cams. May I suggest you condider calling Bullet Racing for a UltraDyne lobe or Lunati for a VooDoo lobe.

Here was a comment I made not long ago that relates............

Most VooDoo lobes, but not all, are the same as the origional lobes by Harold at UltraDyne.
If you prefer to stay away from the hassels of the Lunati conglomorate you can deal direct with Bullet Cams that have the old UltraDyne masters. They are very good people to deal with:
http://www.bulletcams.com/


I have a copy of the old Ultradyne catalog and have compared a lot of the old grinds with the Lunati grinds, and I have found that Lunati is offering a lot of the old Ultradyne grinds under the Lunati name. But in the case of the Voodoo grinds I have not seen any of the Voodoo grinds listed in the old Ultradyne catalog. It is my understanding that the Voodoo grinds are new and Harold developed the Voodoo line specifically to out perform the Comp Extreme Energy grinds. According to Harold dyno testing proved that they did just that.

[Tim Corcoran]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

Yak,
Don't be confined Comp Cams. May I suggest you condider calling Bullet Racing for a UltraDyne lobe or Lunati for a VooDoo lobe.

Here was a comment I made not long ago that relates............

Most VooDoo lobes, but not all, are the same as the origional lobes by Harold at UltraDyne.
If you prefer to stay away from the hassels of the Lunati conglomorate you can deal direct with Bullet Cams that have the old UltraDyne masters. They are very good people to deal with:
http://www.bulletcams.com/

Here is a tid bit about UltraDyne that may be of interest....

Although I have done only a few Buick cams, I have done an awful lot of Pontiacs and Oldsmobiles. Jim Butler, famed Pontiac engine builder, was my largest buyer of camshafts at UltraDyne, doing over $65,000 a year. He thought they worked very well, until the Recession of 2000 left us with an inability to keep him supplied.
As was said, I do all my cam designs as unsymmetrical cam designs. Although I design my hydraulics just like I do my roller profiles, The information I will give applies just to my hydraulic flat profiles.
Using Harvey Crane's Hydraulic Intensity formula, ALL my .842" tappet designs have an Hydraulic Intensity of 53.88 degrees.
This is the duration at .050" subtracted from the duration at .004", where the SAE has decided that hydraulic durations begin and end.
This Hydraulic Intensity of 53.88 is considered to be very aggressive, yet the cams do not have that 'sewing-machine' sound to them.
The opening side of the cam has a 45.26 degree equivalent Hydraulic Intensity, and the closing side is 62.50 degrees Hydaulic Intensity. The SEATING velocity of the valve is only 37% as fast as the OPENING velocity. This seating velocity is only slightly faster than GM uses on all their engines. At UltraDyne, I have had many hydraulic, as well as solids, go over 100,000 miles on the street. I keep the edge of the tappet about .018" away from the point of contact between the cam and tappet.
That 'sewing-machine' sound is caused by the valves hitting the valve seats too fast. The original High Energy cams, which I designed, produced that sound. I was shutting the valve at .0007"/*, only .0002"/* faster than GM. After hearing about the noise, a little thought made me realise the .0002"/* was only 40% faster than GM.
You do not have to shut the valve faster to keep the charge from getting out.
You have to design the cam so the charge, or inertia ram, is still filling the cylinder when you shut the valve.
Every cam I design, hydraulic, hydraulic roller, solid, solid roller, is designed using the same theory I have used for the past 29 years, and they all make excellent bottom-end torque for their duration.
I will keep checking in to continue to answer questions.
UDHarold


Now that said, here is a comment by Paul Carter whom I respect very much. He made a point about the VooDoo lobes that I was not aware of which was most appreciated....

The VooDoo lobes are not the same as the Ultradyne lobes. They are an upgraded design incorporating even more cam design tricks Harold discovered. Harold is a friend of mine and a very good friend of the guy I work with. They have been like best friends since Harold owned Ultradyne. I shared a hotel room with Harold and spent a lot of time with him at the PRI show last December. We spoke a lot about cams. He told me that the VooDoo design is an all new design he came up with. Not only are the lobes non-symmetrical, but they are also offset from the lobe centerline. This offset is why it's so critical to degree in these cams at least 4° advanced. They don't run so good straight up. This offset gives the engine the sense that it is running a cam 5-10° bigger at .050", yet maintains the torque and driveability of a cam 5-10° smaller @ .050". Most people don't understand this about these cams. They make great power! On the 233° @ .050" HFT lobe, with a 1.65 rocker arm, degreed at 106° ICL, the intake valve will be open .139" at TDC. Most HFT cams in that size range only have the valve open about .100" at this point. This lobe even has the valve open more at TDC than an equivalent size roller cam.

We[Jeff Koerner and myself] were talking to the head engine builder of Rousch-Yates at PRI. He was telling us about the Ultradyne lobes he uses for their engines. He stated that they are so stable on the valve train, that they only run 140 lbs. on the seat, and 450 lbs. over the nose on solid roller cammed engines that run up to 10,000 RPM. He said they have no valve train instability problems at all. Jeff asked him if he would like to meet Harold Brookshire. He said "I would love to meet Harold Brookshire". Jeff said, "well turn around, he's sitting right behind you". He was thrilled to meet Harold and they spoke for a while.
Harold's the man!

But personaly I still like dealing with Bullet Racing cams
Steve



.

Steve
I have a copy of the old Ultradyne catalog and have compared a lot of the old grinds with the Lunati grinds, and I have found that Lunati is offering a lot of the old Ultradyne grinds under the Lunati name. But in the case of the Voodoo grinds I have not seen any of the Voodoo grinds listed in the old Ultradyne catalog. It is my understanding that the Voodoo grinds are new and Harold developed the Voodoo line specifically to out perform the Comp Extreme Energy grinds. According to Harold dyno testing proved that they did just that.

I believe that if you want the Voodoo lobes you will need to get them from Lunati. I have worked with David Chamberlain at Lunati and he is very knowledgable and easy to work with. Additionally since there are very few off the shelf Voodoo grinds in solid flat tappet and hyd or solid roller cams, they will custom grind a Pontiac cam using the Voodoo lobes, which is not a bad way to go.

[HWYSTR455]

I was considering this VooDoo hyd roller grind over the XE288HR for my 461 e-head build:

https://www.lunatipower.com/Product....d=3210&gid=289

Retro-Fit Hydraulic Roller. High performance street cam. Likes upgraded intake, carb and exhaust. Needs 2800 RPM stall converter in most cases. Requires 9.5:1 compres- sion for maximum performance.
•Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 282/290
•Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 231/239
•Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .530/.550
•LSA/ICL: 110/116
•Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
•RPM Range: 2200-6200
•Includes: Cams Only


Part Number: 20510712
Previous Part Number: 60912

.

[Steve C.]

Tim,
As I mentioned above in my post I now agree after reading what Paul Carter posted on the subject. That said, we are just used to working with Bullet so I favor them as a company. I have no personal issues with Lunati, only dealt with them years ago and ordered a UltraDyne lobe from them while Harold was there.

I have an old UltraDyne catalog and looked at the specs and at one time thought some of them were the same as some of the VooDoo lobes. Apparantly I was wrong.

Right now I'm using a UltraDyne MSP solid roller.

Thanks.


.

[promptcritical]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

I was considering this VooDoo hyd roller grind over the XE288HR for my 461 e-head build:

https://www.lunatipower.com/Product....d=3210&gid=289

Retro-Fit Hydraulic Roller. High performance street cam. Likes upgraded intake, carb and exhaust. Needs 2800 RPM stall converter in most cases. Requires 9.5:1 compres- sion for maximum performance.
•Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 282/290
•Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 231/239
•Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .530/.550
•LSA/ICL: 110/116
•Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
•RPM Range: 2200-6200
•Includes: Cams Only


Part Number: 20510712
Previous Part Number: 60912

.

ICL: 116? Must be a typo??

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by promptcritical

ICL: 116? Must be a typo??

Cut & paste from the website, but yeah, it's a 106 ICL...

Here's the cam card:

http://www.lunatipower.com/CamSpecCa...rtNumber=60912


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