[corellian corvette]

Verdoro Green differences – Panel shot with Codes Q and 73

Re-posting some information from one of my other threads, with some new information. I’ve been searching for the reason behind the different shades of Verdoro Green. It has appeared, at least in pictures online, that 67-68 Verdoro Green appears darker and more olive then 69-70 Verdoro Green cars.

Some people have claimed their painters have said there is no difference, but GM did change the code in 1969 (Code “Q” in 68, Code “73” in ’69), and this site clearly shows that those codes map to different numbers for several paint brands as well.

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcod...r=2095&rows=50

Year Paint Color Name Code GM Code Ditzler PPG Dupont Acme Rogers Martin Senour Sherwin Williams
1968 Verdoro Green Q WA3771 43745 4947LH, 4947DH 5557 4380 3028
1969 Verdoro Green 73 WA3771 2095 5066LH, 5066AH, 5066DH 5717 4380 2612

Given all the uncertainty, my painter went down today and had both colors mixed up, and test sprayed a panel.

As thought, there is definitely a difference between the two colors. While my painter said it’s hard to tell in the pictures, they definitely reflect different in sunlight, where Code Q goes darker, and Code 73 goes lighter.

So, while not definitive by any means, at least I think we have a closer answer. 67-68 Verdoro is a slightly different color than 69-70 Verdoro.









It was slightly overcast, and these were taken by a cell-phone camera. I will try and shoot some better pictures this weekend.

Thought you all would be interested

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Good work on that Corellian , i never paid attention to VooDoo being different each year.
Maybe 67 and 68 were same . Cant find memo about it being 67 Spring Color - extra cost .

Q represented it in 68 69 70 .
But they started using numeric codes on trim tags in 69
Invoices used the alpha code.

In 69 its #73 = Dupont 5066
In 70 its #47 = Dupont 5195 - different formula again

i'm real surprised it kept the same WA3771 Fisher number in 68 and 69.
That number is supposed to relate to only 1 formulation.
Maybe that wasn't the case in those earlier years.

[Diego]

I think the change in code from 1968-69 is not a Voodoo thing but, rather, a change in the way Pontiac indicated colors.

However, you can compare the codes in this:

http://www.tcpglobal.com/aclchip.asp...ntiac-pg01.jpg

http://www.tcpglobal.com/aclchip.asp...ntiac-pg01.jpg

And, for good measure:

http://www.tcpglobal.com/aclchip.asp...ntiac-pg01.jpg

[Verdoro 68]

Originally Posted by Diego

I think the change in code from 1968-69 is not a Voodoo thing but, rather, a change in the way Pontiac indicated colors.

I tend to believe the same despite what the paint manufacturers say.

Looking forward to better pics, but these panels make me wish I took more time to match the paint before the painter sprayed my car.

[The Boss]

I'm sitting down right here and going to soak all of this in. I plan on painting my 68 once and once only!

[Simple Man]

So which are you going to use?

[corellian corvette]

Diego If I'm reading that right

- 1967/68 was Code "Q" and PPG 2095
- 1969 was code "73" and PPG 43745
- 1970 was code "47" and PPG 2095

However, up above (painref.com) it shows that code 47 and 73 are both PPG 2095. It does confirm that Q was always 2095.

In either case, we can confirm that according to PPG there are at least two different mixes for Verdoro Green, and you can see those differences above.

I'm going up tonight to get a better look at the panel in person, and will report back what I see anyway.

[corellian corvette]

Simple Man I want to see them both in person before I make the call. I tend to like what I see in photos as the "lighter" of the two colors (what I think is the 43745 mix). But I was told by the painter that the differences are more pronounced in person, and depending on the light. I'll make a visual call.

Verdoro do you recall what the paint code you used was?

[corellian corvette]

This is quite tricky. If you look at the paintref.com link I posted, everyone except Martin Senor lists 2 different numbers for Verdoro Green, And that change happens in 1969.

However, as you stated Dupont does have a third mix for 1970.

Yet, all of them share the same GM WA3771 number. So we have at least three different mixes for the color.

My choice is more binary since my painter uses PPG.

[salem1912]

I used PPG Global on my '68 and very happy with the color. Paint supplier called back and said "Q" wouldn't do and ask to confirm the correct year.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Dupont was the main supplier to GM in those days.
(not insinuating anyone has to use Dupont)

Anytime Dupont assigns a different product number/mix number -
it is a different formula to the mixture (tints) - and a different color - even if only by a shade or two. Otherwise they leave it alone.
Color name is not an issue for or against.
But it is real surprising to me to see 3 different mixtures all called Verdoro.
DeLorean really had strong attachment to that name i suppose. (?)
Must have really loved his wife.

Some colors remain unchanged and carry over years at a time.
They don't reformulate or re-number the mix if color stays completely the same.

You can trust Dupont on that.

Just make sure to use the 68 Dupont number for reference if you want 1968 color.

The next complication is even doing so , if you have 4 brands mix the same cross reference , you may see 4 slight variations. lol

I've been in the auto paint industry since early 80's.
Even mixed Dupont and SherWilly for a while at a jobber.
Lacquer system had twice as many tint bases as Acrylic Enamel and Synthetic Enamel .
Non-Lacquer formulations can only get so close to the original GM Lacquer color standard. And lacquer is a dead language now.

i hated lacquer anyway

Most every body shop i've worked at since the early 90's has its own mixing system for its primary use. Have mixed a lot of different stuff over all the years.

Bottom line is - don't ever trust a match without verifying the end product.
No matter what brand or number.

[corellian corvette]

MAN this is HARD!!

Got the test panel home tonight. Verdoro green is like the most interesting color I've seen. Unfortunately, it was overcast when I got home, so I'm hoping to get some good outside shots tomorrow and can see the color in natural light.

Keep in mind - this is the same panel, with pictures taken in a well-lit shop (fluorescent light), as well as in two well-lit rooms in my house. Depending on proximity, sometimes there was a flash, sometimes not. All taken with the same camera. Yet, in EVERY picture, the color looks completely different.

For consistency, I rotated the images so Code '73' (PPG 43745) is on the left, and Code 'Q' (PPG 2095) is on the right. But note that these pictures were taken at different angles and from different sizes. I've just rotated them for easy comparison.

God this is a fascinating color. Almost certainly '73' is the lighter of the two. In person, it's slightly more green. 'Q' is darker (more olive), but actually has a bit more of a gold reflection to it, which is counter to what you may think in the pictures.

I tried mostly taking pictures "top down", because honestly sometimes, depending on the light, '73' can appear darker. And you'll see a couple pictures that look the same - particularly at a distance.

The most boggling fact is that, in the photos, I clearly preferred '73'. In person - I'm actually leaning towards code Q. It's slightly richer, and the gold metallic reflects really nicely.

Taking monitors into consideration - the pictures that most capture the color I actually see is #4 and #7

Picture #4 is probably the most interesting to inspect, because you see several things happening in that shot. One, you can see towards the top how the colors appear almost the same. You can see as the panel bends, and it changes the light reflection on the paint, the color gradually gets lighter. Also look at the shadow caused by the ridge. Code 73, while being lighter, gets darker in the shadow. The shadow against Code Q is actually lighter.

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[elefantrider]

Super thread. Both are nice. On my '69, I'll let the year decide so will go with the lighter one, 73, on mine. Q looks greener to me.

[trishieldchief]

I love Verdoro Green,that color defines Pontiac Motor Division.

[Hammertime Mike]

I painted a 68 goat verdoro green back in the 90's and have always liked that color. There's a 69 verdoro green GTO that always goes to Norwalk and is absolutely gorgious.

[The Boss]

I had a 68 Firebird convertible, code Q 12-13 years ago that got a full paint job - never should have sold it.

[Half-Inch Stud]

ADVICE: the primer underneath strongly influences the Verdoro depth.

White/cream makes a wash-out :excellent for broad flat areas
Zblack/charcoal makes a crisp: excellent for edges, fender edges,quarter edges, sail panel edges, pillars, hoid scoops.

black primer stripes need be natural spray feather edges, not stencil sharp.

Practiced on my 69 Firebird with sharp results. I reco. Excellent paint on Street/strip bird; all it needed was the dana60 rear & strong drivesfaft. Rather than invest, i sold it off to fund the 68 GTO build, of lesser condition.

[Half-Inch Stud]

No clear coat: complicates touchup, repairs, and...highly overrated.

Gloss additive in the Paint should do.

I'm not a paint expert but these thingsseems basic to me.


The 68 gto got starlight black, no clearcoat: allows adding body panel upgrades later without fuss, & block sanding with no worries.

[Diego]

Originally Posted by corellian corvette

Diego If I'm reading that right

- 1967/68 was Code "Q" and PPG 2095
- 1969 was code "73" and PPG 43745
- 1970 was code "47" and PPG 2095

No, this is what I'm seeing:

1967/8 - 43745
1969/70 - 2095

So the OP is onto something.

[corellian corvette]

Correct I wrote it wrong. So that aligns with what's on the paintref.com site.

What's also interesting is the note at the bottom of the 1968 Chart (***1967 Spring Color Code also used in 1968)

Also to clear up - I'm not saying the code indicated anything since the Fischer number remained the same (GM WA3771). However, for whatever reason, when the GM code changed in '69, it appears that the formula changes as well.

I have yet to have a sunny moment since I got the panel, as I would like to observe them in natural light and take some more pictures.