MotorTrend and car of the year.... - Page 2 - PY Online Forums

Goathead · #21 12-16-2003, 07:20 PM

http://www.car-videos.com/performanc...ID1=280&ID2=78

http://www.dannys65gto.com

http://kurtspontiac.homestead.com/dannys65gto.html

ChiefIronHorse · #22 12-16-2003, 09:22 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Can't beat an Audi? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ummmm yes the GTO did beat the Audi. Funny how you didn't mention that there are 9 other Audi's on the list and the GTO beats them. The GTO beats the Quattro from 0-70, 0-80, 0-90, 0-100! So yes the GTO DOES beat the Audi. Just answering your question.

GOAT8U2 · #23 12-16-2003, 11:58 PM

Yes, I would rather buy a Turbo Neon at $20k than a $33k GTO. Then for another $2400 the car runs low 12's on street tires. Not sure if I buy that, but check out these reviews www.carreview.com/Midsize-Compact/Dodge,Neon,SRT-4/PRD_143713_1531crx.aspx
I would rather keep the extra 10k for investments wouldn't you?

Did not mention anything about looks, but the GTO (or should I say Grand Prix)is less of a sports car compared to the EVO IMHO. And that is NOT a sports car chasis or platform in comparison.
The EVO is factory lowered, and comes with Brembo brakes and its tread to wheelbase is better. It would leave the GTO after every corner.

Not a GTO hater, just disappointed in the 04 GTO.
IMHO, the GTO should of had its own platform like the Vette. Pontiac did not have to revive the GTO as another bastard child of two other cars like before. This is 04, not 64.

Mr Iron Horse, I do not have to see the GTO race in person, there are time slips that show its slower. Its not a girl you need to date to get to know, its a car. Tests show its slower in all the categories we care about, thats proof enough. And, when push comes to shove, the GTO dollar for dollar will get its ass handed to it by the EVO. The EVO already wins in the 1/4 stock. Who the hell on the street races more than a 1/4 mile and past 100mph? Stop light to stop light, the Evo wins, and thats what 80% of all street races are, light to light.

The post about the Audi was a twin engine Audi and it being the fastest street car. Not really a fair challenge for any car.

And $1200 here in the US unless its Nitrous, gets that GTO to probably do 13.3's instead of 13.8's. Its much heavier (3725) than the EVO (3260) or the other imports. Hp to weight ratio comes into play and 500lbs is pretty much 50hp. Then its competiting against AWD (Sti, Evo) so its only a highway contender to those turbo 4 cylinders.

69 GTO Convertible
(Future Twin Turbo)
87 GN

GTO_2004 · #24 12-17-2003, 12:25 AM

so since this evo is so much faster than a GTO..

i won't tell this guy with an unopened LS1 motor (read: stock cam and heads) with bolt ons, and a vortec charger.

what does he run ?

hes running a 11sec @ 127mph (but you can go hump the evo, whilst the evo owners drool over the GTOs)

Australian RWD + American V8 - Now THAT'S what I call a "coalition".

[This message was edited by GTO_2004 on December 17, 2003 at 02:38 AM.]

ChiefIronHorse · #25 12-17-2003, 01:28 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Mr Iron Horse, I do not have to see the GTO race in person, there are time slips that show its slower. Its not a girl you need to date to get to know, its a car. Tests show its slower in all the categories we care about, thats proof enough. And, when push comes to shove, the GTO dollar for dollar will get its ass handed to it by the EVO. The EVO already wins in the 1/4 stock. Who the hell on the street races more than a 1/4 mile and past 100mph? Stop light to stop light, the Evo wins, and thats what 80% of all street races are, light to light.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course you don't have to see it race in person. You're what we call a "Monday morning quarterback". Second of all, a vehicle IS like a girl. How many girls to you get to know before you go out on a date? How many vehicle's do you test drive before you buy them? Get my drift??? Third, which GTO was "tested"? A pre-production GTO or the production GTO? You might want to go back and do your homework because every GTO given to a Mag for testing was a "PRE-PRODUCTION" GTO. As for the dollar to dollar comment. Run out and buy yourself an evo. You get what you buy. Everybody will know that you're driving a "cheap" car that goes fast. Everybody will know that the owner of a GTO is driving a 350HP, RWD vehicle with style. JMO! By the way on the 1/4... most vehicles reach over 100 M.P.H. when they cross the finish line. So the 100 M.P.H. and the 1/4 mile go together. Just like I stated before... don't like the NEW GTO.. don't look at it. Don't like the way it sounds.. cover your ears when ones near. Don't like the price.. don't buy one. One way or another your opinion is YOUR opinion. Nobody really cares. Either they like it or they don't. Seems to me that you think you're influence is going to sway one persons opinion of the vehicle. Unless you know how to use the Jedi mind trick, I highly doubt thats going to happen. Face the facts, alot of people like/love the new GTO. And their opinion are the only opinions that matter to them.

GOAT8U2 · #26 12-17-2003, 05:29 PM

Nobody buys a $33k car because someone on a car forum likes it or dislikes it. I AM a master of the Jedi mind trick, but the GTO needs more power than the force can offer it.

I did not say you could not make the GTO fast, its an LS1 motor. I used to work at a custom fab shop that made twin turbos for this motor. I know what it can and can not do.

My point is for $33k, its not as fast stock and not as fast dollar per dollar as the EVO. You can make a Geo Metro fast with money, but here,

How much did that supercharger, fuel system upgrades, ecm programing, slicks, etc cost to get it to run that?
Not $1k, $2k or even $3k when you are all done. We are comparing stock vehicles, and its funny how you are comparing a supercharged 346ci motor vs a 122ci turbo motor.

It still looks bad, check this out. These are stock 2.0 liter motors on stock unported heads and turbos.

www.buschurracing.com
www.automotosports.com/evo8_specs.asp
(dyno graphs towards bottom)
www.automotosports.com/evo_stage_1.asp
Stage 1 costs $1200 and with $600 cams the car went 11.8 on street tires, higher psi, and race gas.

Can the GTO get to 11.8 on street tires without a supercharger for around $1800 ($600 for cams)?

And if the EVO is not a sports car, than the slower,worse handling, worse braking (EVO comes standard with Brembo brakes) GTO is a station wagon.

With the 04 GTO, its what you are NOT getting when you pay for it comparitively.

By the way, I own a GTO and I am not a troll or an import loyalist.

69 GTO Convertible
(Future Twin Turbo)
87 GN

GTO_2004 · #27 12-17-2003, 05:50 PM

how seriously embarassing is it to think outsiders that are reading in to these forums that have seen the GTO and are loving it, so they come here to the 'mother' of pontiac forums to find its "own" people bashing it.

i went over to the evo forums just to see what they think, and i wasn't surprised with the exception of a few individuals, to find that the majority of people liked/loved the car.

a stark contrast to the bashing that goes on in here,

and that isn't just the evo forums, but the automotive community in general.

Australian RWD + American V8 - Now THAT'S what I call a "coalition".

Goathead · #28 12-17-2003, 05:52 PM

2004 GTO 1320 ft (1/4 mile) 13.88 s @ 103.56 mph 1/4 mile

Audi 13.80 s @ 100.8 1/4 mile.....

Now what is it about the 2004 GTO that beat the Audi?

http://www.dannys65gto.com

http://kurtspontiac.homestead.com/dannys65gto.html

ChiefIronHorse · #29 12-17-2003, 08:12 PM

GTO_2004,

Some of these people "fear" what they do not know. They can't get it through there thick skulls that the times they're compairing are from a "PRE-PRODUCTION" GTO. Instead of seeing or driving the GTO for themselves, they're going to keep their "Monday Morning Quarterback" jobs. Or maybe they'd prefer the "bench racing" title? Bottom line is there's going to be people in the world that are closed minded. I could fully understand if a person saw and drove the vehicle for themselves... THEN JUDGE IT. If they still don't like it, so be it. At least it was a fair judgement on the vehicle. But to base their opinions on something they've read in a magazine. More importantly the magazine vehicle was a "PRE-PRODUCTION" vehicle. To me it seems some of these people are obsessed with this vehicle. Why would somebody "keep" coming back to a forum thats dedicated to the 2004 GTO and keep bashing it. Don't like the vehicle... FINE. Now run along and join a forum of a vehicle that you do like. You don't see me hanging around the cowboys forums just because I hate them. If they want to keep coming to this forum and continue to bash it to make themselves feel better, so be it. Next time they're going to complain that the tire stems are too long or too short. Or the oil dip stick handle is the wrong color. From what I've seen, I like the new GTO. Some of the things I would change like the split on the exhaust. BUT I'm going to wait until I can get the "true" numbers from a "production" GTO before I comment on the performance. Of course this post is JMO.

Mr_GTO · #30 12-24-2003, 04:07 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
2004 GTO 1320 ft (1/4 mile) 13.88 s @ 103.56 mph 1/4 mile

Audi 13.80 s @ 100.8 1/4 mile.....

Now what is it about the 2004 GTO that beat the Audi?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea, and some of us actually use a mag time that is the best that has been tested unlike some pickles here. Only when it suits the argument, right Danny Boy?