Ugly, bland and over priced.

[RandyW]

I had planned to buy a late GTO, but now that the G8 GXP is here, this "Old Man" will likely buy one of them. LOL

[GTO JUDGE]

A Poll? You kidding me? Why wouldn't they accept it, its a GTO. The GTOAA welcomed the new gen with open arms. Bob Alexander the President owns an 06'. The GTOAA has the LS1 forum linked on their site. They have an 04-06 Tech as well. When was the last time you were on the GTOAA website? When was the last time you picked up the Legend and read it? My 05' graced the cover earlier this year.

Your attitude is why there is animosity. I grew up with the old gens. I love em all. I was searching for a 69' Judge but I wasn't going to pay the prices I saw, a new one was cheaper. After I warmed to it, I ordered one. Either pay 40K plus to look at one and drive it occasionally, or pay 30K and drive it a lot.

What ya got here is older gen guys stuck in the past, and new gen guys with cocky attitudes kind of like we were back in the day.

[GTO JUDGE]

Originally Posted by RandyW

I had planned to buy a late GTO, but now that the G8 GXP is here, this "Old Man" will likely buy one of them. LOL

They are sharp!
At Parsippany, Solerno Pontiac had an 06' Spice Red GTO there 3K for 26.5. My wife test drove it. While she peeled out in it and took it for a jaunt, I was talking deal with it, I left the decision up to her... She came back and was in awe. (It was an A4 she can't drive stick.) I asked her do you want it? She knows I am still searching for my Judge. She asked me if I get this you won't get your 69? I told her don't worry about it, if you want it we'll make it happen. We came home and talked. She decided against it or we'd have another one in the drive. We're both in our 50's. Never too late.

[6804gto]

Originally Posted by GTO JUDGE

They are sharp!
At Parsippany, Solerno Pontiac had an 06' Spice Red GTO there 3K for 26.5. My wife test drove it. While she peeled out in it and took it for a jaunt, I was talking deal with it, I left the decision up to her... She came back and was in awe. (It was an A4 she can't drive stick.) I asked her do you want it? She knows I am still searching for my Judge. She asked me if I get this you won't get your 69? I told her don't worry about it, if you want it we'll make it happen. We came home and talked. She decided against it or we'd have another one in the drive. We're both in our 50's. Never too late.

Hey Vic, I was wondering what you & your wife decided on the 06.
Oh well, now if you find that Judge you want so bad, there will be room for it now!
You could have one of each : Old era/ new era. That way you can be stuck right in the middle of the topic in this thread! LOL
btw Thanks for posting the pictures from Parsippany on the event forums.

Brent

[ClassJ]

A Poll? You kidding me? Why wouldn't they accept it, its a GTO. The GTOAA welcomed the new gen with open arms. Bob Alexander the President owns an 06'. The GTOAA has the LS1 forum linked on their site. They have an 04-06 Tech as well. When was the last time you were on the GTOAA website? When was the last time you picked up the Legend and read it? My 05' graced the cover earlier this year.

Your attitude is why there is animosity.

What in the world did I possibly say in my last post to deserve to be flogged?

I read the Legend monthly. Including the articles about the new cars which, as I said, I enjoy because they are tech related. I was on the GTOAA website about a year ago, it is a nice site. Not much there beyond what is in the Legend but the event coverage was good at the time.

I personally have no problem with the GTOAA accepting new GTO owners. However, you mentioned the following:

It already has started, the GTOAA has seen a 5% drop in membership this past year.

Is that due to new members letting their membership lapse? Or some old GTO owners not really wanting to read about new GTO's in the Legend? Could be either one, just curious?

And what exactly would have been wrong with a poll? It is a club, the members pay dues. Even though the new car is a GTO as well, there may be a large member population that feels that they joined a club that was dedicated to the preservation of the 1964 through 1974 Pontiac GTO. If I subscribed to classic corvette magazine, and all of a sudden it was flooded with new Corvette articles, you don't think some subscribers would be upset regardless of whether they love or hate new vettes.

Just like there are clubs dedicated to the 55-57 chevy. 55-57 Thunderbird. C1 to C3 corvette, etc the GTOAA could have certainly stayed the same.

I see nothing wrong with excluding certain years if the members voted to do so.

However, in this case, I would have personally still voted to let the new members join, to expose the new to the old and the old to the new. It helps preserve the heritage of the car and that can never be a bad thing.

[87LC2]

You could have one of each : Old era/ new era. That way you can be stuck right in the middle of the topic in this thread! LOL

Been there, done that...

[GTO JUDGE]

Originally Posted by 6804gto

Hey Vic, I was wondering what you & your wife decided on the 06.
Oh well, now if you find that Judge you want so bad, there will be room for it now!
You could have one of each : Old era/ new era. That way you can be stuck right in the middle of the topic in this thread! LOL
btw Thanks for posting the pictures from Parsippany on the event forums.

Brent

Hey Brent.....

We talked about it and her practical side came out. Her car is getting over 30mpg. She loves it, she wants me to build a side garage to house all the vehicles we have. She doesn't want a GTO sitting outside. She also has a need for speed. She keeps telling me she will be funding local law enforcement at our expense. LOL.

That was the first she drove one, and she was just floored at the power. I left it up to her. I told her what if you can get that car with a trade for 11K? Again, her practical side came out she said her mpg will go from 30 to about 15. She did debate it though, when she took off in it I knew she was seriously considering it. Oh well....
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry if I came a bit unglued there ClassJ...

I've been reading the GTOAA bashing on LS1 and some on here bashing new gen cars and I guess I got a little wound up.

After meeting Bob, John, Tom etc and see how the GTOAA recognizes the "bastard child" and to see them take an unwarranted hit irks me plus my desire to get involved at the National Level to promote GTO and reading how some attacked the National Organization for opinions of some and then reading how many view new gen owners as second class car owners it amazes me the animosity spewing over a car. I think it's petty. I am as a big a fan of the classics as there is one. I am also a GTO fan and support the GTO. To see a division of both gens because of 40+ years difference of styling and performance is just stupid.

Cheers!

[triathlonx13]

Originally Posted by 87LC2

Been there, done that...

Hey, nice commuter car next to your GTO

.

[triathlonx13]

Wow you guys sure write a lot !!!

The "new GTO" looks ok... nothing great. Fact: The new Mustang looks hot (but still can't run)

I've never been beat by the New GTO's (any year) with my old 1968 GTO (Stock.. AND A 4 speed trans). 4 different tracks... and a few times on the street. FACT.

Fact: All the old cars had problems and needed (still do) TLC. It was the technology of the day.

The TransAms LS1s & even the LT1s beat the new GTO's??? even with less HPs?? The new GTOs just don't hook. Must be a suspension problem or low end power???

The 1973 and 1974 GTO's...were "real" but Many Pontiac guys would like to forget that fact

Wanger's hair real? It's on his head.... New GTO "real".... badges say it is??

With all the history that GTO had in the past - we just all thought there would be more in the new car...

[RandyW]

Originally Posted by triathlonx13

Wow you guys sure write a lot !!!

The "new GTO" looks ok... nothing great. Fact: The new Mustang looks hot (but still can't run)

I've never been beat by the New GTO's (any year) with my old 1968 GTO (Stock.. AND A 4 speed trans). 4 different tracks... and a few times on the street. FACT.

Fact: All the old cars had problems and needed (still do) TLC. It was the technology of the day.

The TransAms LS1s & even the LT1s beat the new GTO's??? even with less HPs?? The new GTOs just don't hook. Must be a suspension problem or low end power???

The 1973 and 1974 GTO's...were "real" but Many Pontiac guys would like to forget that fact

Wanger's hair real? It's on his head.... New GTO "real".... badges say it is??

With all the history that GTO had in the past - we just all thought there would be more in the new car...

I was 16 in 1968, a stock Ram Air/4 speed car, repeat, "stock" was a low to mid 14 second car, so no it wouldn't beat an '06, again "stock" GTO. Now if your car is perfectly tuned and tweaked and has modern tires, maybe, but if it keeps up in the 1/4 mile it will be history past 100 mph. I'm not saying that because I don't or do like any one period, I love them all, even the '73-'74. They all have their places, but let's not bullsh!t about it.

[triathlonx13]

Originally Posted by RandyW

I was 16 in 1968, a stock Ram Air/4 speed car, repeat, "stock" was a low to mid 14 second car, so no it wouldn't beat an '06, again "stock" GTO. Now if your car is perfectly tuned and tweaked and has modern tires, maybe, but if it keeps up in the 1/4 mile it will be history past 100 mph. I'm not saying that because I don't or do like any one period, I love them all, even the '73-'74. They all have their places, but let's not bullsh!t about it.

Ha-Ha... thanks for informing me of your age and credentials LOL !! OK King George, really....

You don't know crap... obviously.

"We have a winner" Boy, sometimes it's to easy

.


.

[triathlonx13]

Originally Posted by RandyW

I was 16 in 1968, a stock Ram Air/4 speed car, repeat, "stock" was a low to mid 14 second car, so no it wouldn't beat an '06, again "stock" GTO. Now if your car is perfectly tuned and tweaked and has modern tires, maybe, but if it keeps up in the 1/4 mile it will be history past 100 mph. I'm not saying that because I don't or do like any one period, I love them all, even the '73-'74. They all have their places, but let's not bullsh!t about it.

Ummmm Muncie 4 speeds.... 4th = 1:1

What does the new goats have for transmissions?

You do the math Einstein

.

[triathlonx13]

ok...ok...alright.... When I say "stock" - I will clarify:

Here is my GTO (3,700 and change lbs with me in it)

I've run 13.12 in the quarter and should be able to hit 12.9s with correct suspension and tire set up. (Car is loaded with full interior radio, amp, etc.)

This is my car "as it ran 13.12”

Motor:
.030 TRW pistons
.010 stock crank
** rotating assembly NOT balanced
# 62 Heads (no porting) with 7/16 screw in studs
RA IV ground cam (roller)
Roller lifters
Roller Rockers
9.5 compressions at best
Hooker Super Comp Headers
RPM Edelbrock Intake
Holler 800 cfm carb
Power steering
Manual brakes (that drag... need to fix)

Transmission:
Muncie 4 speed
Center Force II Clutch

Rear End:
GM 12 Bolt - 3.90 gears

Tires:
DOT 9” Hoosiers 26” diameter on a 16” rim.

Things that are holding me back from hitting 12.9s are:
Dragging front brakes (need to replace prop.valve.)
Front Sway Bar (need to remove)
Need 15” rim in back with wider tire… or maybe taller??? (I think best case would be DOT M/Ts 28x11.5
Get rid of my extra firm shocks and get some loose shocks up front and medium shocks in the back.

Note? I have a hard time hooking this car up because of stiff street suspension and the fact it’s a stick car.

[ClassJ]

No worries GTO JUDGE. Happens to the best of us.

Fact: The new Mustang looks hot (but still can't run)

Hey...to each his own. If you call 13.2 with just a CAI and tune on stock tires. And 12.8 on drag radials with just the intake and tune slow for an almost stock car, no chassis prep, etc. Then you are right.

There are always exceptions though. There are mustangs out there running high 13's. Just like I saw a couple new 6.0l GTO's this year struggling to click off times under 13.5-13.7 because of traction mostly. Also not everyone gets a whole lot of track time so that might have had something to do with it. Just like there are new GTO's out there turning great times, there are also new mustangs turning low 12's and two oddballs I know of in the 11's. NA with a bunch of bolt ons. All depends on the car and driver.

a stock Ram Air/4 speed car, repeat, "stock" was a low to mid 14 second car

Stock for stock as delivered in their respective years. You are right. However, put the old GTO in tune, equalize the tires (either put bias plies on the new GTO or some nice rubber on the old car). And the times are really not all that different. And I would bet it is easier to hook a stock softly sprung 60's GTO off the line with the right tire than a new one with the independent rear.

All said and done, the new cars are faster once you include braking, handling, etc. But a properly set up old goat with stiffer springs, shocks, factory 4 piston disks/drums, and some nice tires is far from a POS. Not on par with the new car, but nothing scary to drive fast.

[triathlonx13]

Well said !

.

[RandyW]

Originally Posted by triathlonx13

ok...ok...alright.... When I say "stock" - I will clarify:

Here is my GTO (3,700 and change lbs with me in it)

I've run 13.12 in the quarter and should be able to hit 12.9s with correct suspension and tire set up. (Car is loaded with full interior radio, amp, etc.)

This is my car "as it ran 13.12”

Motor:
.030 TRW pistons
.010 stock crank
** rotating assembly NOT balanced
# 62 Heads (no porting) with 7/16 screw in studs
RA IV ground cam (roller)
Roller lifters
Roller Rockers
9.5 compressions at best
Hooker Super Comp Headers
RPM Edelbrock Intake
Holler 800 cfm carb
Power steering
Manual brakes (that drag... need to fix)

Transmission:
Muncie 4 speed
Center Force II Clutch

Rear End:
GM 12 Bolt - 3.90 gears

Tires:
DOT 9” Hoosiers 26” diameter on a 16” rim.

Things that are holding me back from hitting 12.9s are:
Dragging front brakes (need to replace prop.valve.)
Front Sway Bar (need to remove)
Need 15” rim in back with wider tire… or maybe taller??? (I think best case would be DOT M/Ts 28x11.5
Get rid of my extra firm shocks and get some loose shocks up front and medium shocks in the back.

Note? I have a hard time hooking this car up because of stiff street suspension and the fact it’s a stick car.

What part of this is stock, "Einstein"? And what's with the name calling, everything I said was true, if your car were really "stock", it would be a 14 second car. That ain't my imagination, that's the truth as proven at dragstrips all over the country in 1968. As for credentials, you have no idea, but dealing with narrow minded people is like bring a .44 magnum to spitball fight.
First and foremost, I love old GTO's I owned both '65 and '66 convertibles, both 360 horse/4 speed cars. I've never owned a newer one. I'm not knocking old GTO's, I'm just saying don't show your ignorance by knocking the newer GTO's. You sound like the old addage; "you gonna believe what I say or your lyin' eyes"?

By the way, you're right, that dinosaur of a 4 speed with 4.11's is what will get your butt kicked above 100.

[87LC2]

450 miles / 18.5 gallon tank = 24.3 mpg and I have the gas guzzling automatic.

160 mph limited by the PCM, oops mines tuned out, 170-175mph maybe.

GM High Tech Performance did a test on tires and got over 0.95 g out of a 2004 GTO

Originally Posted by UltimateGTO

0-60 mph 1/4 mile Equipment Source
1964 4.6 sec 13.1 @ 115.0mph 348hp Tri-power, manual, 3.90 rear Car & Driver*
*421 'ringer' car
1965 5.8 sec 14.5 @ 100.0mph 360hp Tri-power, manual, 3.90 rear Car Life
1966 6.8 sec 15.5 @ 93.16mph 360hp Tri-power, manual, 3.55 rear Motor Trend
1967 4.9 sec 14.2 @ 103.0mph 360hp Ram Air, auto, 3.90 rear Motor Trend
1968 6.5 sec 14.4 @ 98.2mph 360hp Ram Air, manual, 4.33 rear Motor Trend
1969 5.1 sec 13.9 @ 107.0mph 370hp Judge, auto, 3.90 rear High Perf Pontiac
1970 6.6 sec 15.0 @ 96.5mph 360hp 455HO, 3.31 rear Car & Driver
1971 6.1 sec 13.4 @ 102mph 325hp 455, manual, 3.90 rear Motor Trend
1972 7.1 sec 15.4 @ 92.0mph 300hp 455, manual, 3.55 rear Motor Trend
1974 7.7 sec 15.72 @ 88mph 200hp 350, manual Cars Magazine
2004 5.3 sec 13.8 @ 103.8mph 350hp LS1, 6-speed manual Road & Track
2005 4.6 sec 13.0 @ 108mph 400hp LS2, 4-Speed Automatic GM Sales Literature
2006 4.7 sec 13.1 @ 108mph 400hp LS2, 6-speed manual GM Sales Literature

Best of the best.

[PB05GTO]

It should run 175 , i have had mine at 180 a couple times on 412 hwy going to tulsa ok. but mine has been tuned very well , the guy i got it from drag raced it every weekend and the time slips he showed me were in the 11s and i have got to say i've had this car over a year now and put 11000 miles on it and i have not had to work on anything and the wife drives it to work every day, but i have to back up i will have to work on it- dang i forgot , i got to put some new tires on the back

[triathlonx13]

Originally Posted by RandyW

What part of this is stock, "Einstein"? And what's with the name calling, everything I said was true, if your car were really "stock", it would be a 14 second car. That ain't my imagination, that's the truth as proven at dragstrips all over the country in 1968. As for credentials, you have no idea, but dealing with narrow minded people is like bring a .44 magnum to spitball fight.
First and foremost, I love old GTO's I owned both '65 and '66 convertibles, both 360 horse/4 speed cars. I've never owned a newer one. I'm not knocking old GTO's, I'm just saying don't show your ignorance by knocking the newer GTO's. You sound like the old addage; "you gonna believe what I say or your lyin' eyes"?

By the way, you're right, that dinosaur of a 4 speed with 4.11's is what will get your butt kicked above 100.

All in fun... all in fun. Ain't bench racing great?!

Question: was the "rated" 360 hp.... really 360 hp's ?? Maybe stock is a loosly used term these days. Stock classes can run headers..etc right? Well "stock" taken literally... might be another story. "HardTimes" Truman - runs 11s with his stock 68 firebird


FACTORY STREET CLASS REGULATIONS
http://www.tarltonrace.com/tir-drag-...ory-street.htm

“One production type engine only….. Engines may only be replaced with same make and type as was supplied by OEM. Minor modifications will be allowed, i.e. aftermarket/performance air cleaners and intake systems. Maximum overbore of cylinders are .060 inches and/or 1.5mm. Engines may not be stroked.”



FACTORY STOCK
http://www.nmradigital.com/rules/

“EXHAUST: All entries allowed to use tubular headers”


Stock Class, pure stock, factory stock….. there is a lot to it… I still believe my car fits the “stock” groups. No stroke, factory heads, factory cam lift, etc., bore, fuel grade, body, interior, full exhaust…

.
.

[ClassJ]

Personally. I love watching F.A.S.T racing. Always humbling to watch a guy with a stock appearing car on bias plies click off 11's. Iron heads, block, carb, etc. All factory parts (with the usual exception being the stroked block). A mild cam, etc.

The amount of work that goes into those cars to look that way and go that hard is impressive.