[Blackwood Goat]

Does anyone have information on the Royal Bobcat GTO? I was told that a Dealership in Michigan sold these cars with a Bobcat Package: Open Hood Scoop,Air Cleaner Pan and Element. Tweaking the Carb,Dist,Timing and thinner Head Gaskets. There was also some speculation the engine was swapped out for a 421. Is there anyway to document these vehicles? Thanks Rich

[rememberfireball#22]

Get Jim Wagners book "Glory Days". It will tell you everthing about Royal Pontiac and the cars. Also, pick up a copy of "Muscle Car Review" magazine. It has several good Pontiac features in this months edition, and one of the features is on Royal Pontiac.

[Superchief455]

Originally Posted by Blackwood Goat

Does anyone have information on the Royal Bobcat GTO? I was told that a Dealership in Michigan sold these cars with a Bobcat Package: Open Hood Scoop,Air Cleaner Pan and Element. Tweaking the Carb,Dist,Timing and thinner Head Gaskets. There was also some speculation the engine was swapped out for a 421. Is there anyway to document these vehicles? Thanks Rich

The Dealership was called Royal Pontiac and it was located in Royal Oak Michigan. According to what i know they "started it all" for Pontiac performance wise in 1959. They designed what was called the "Bobcat Kit" for the 389 engines that found their home in the GTO's and "some" of the GTO's were ordered or produced with special paint , badging, and a column mounted "Sun" tachometer, but from what i understand and have been told some were just "plain Jane" GTO's with neither. Just like with any other Pontiac, If you contact PHS (Pontiac Historical Services) they will be able to tell you if you "have the real deal" and probably supply you with the proper documentation to prove it if that is what you're after.

From what i understand the "Bobcat-Kits" consisted of Thinner head gaskets, what they called "Positive Locking" Rocker Arm nuts, Distributor Re-Curve Kit, Progressive Tri-Power Throttle Linkage, and "richer" carb jetting For the "early" GTO's and then on the later GTO's consisted of the pre-mentioned plus the "Ram Air" package.

[Bob Eiler]

Page from Royal Pontiac catalog showing Bobcat package.

[Superchief455]

Originally Posted by Bob Eiler

Page from Royal Pontiac catalog showing Bobcat package.

Bob

where did you get the catalog from? is it a "golden oldie" or a re-pop? Always looking/interested in things of this nature.

now if we can get "that pricing" today for the same thing well, i guess we'd be in deeper than we already are.....lol

[Blackwood Goat]

Originally Posted by Bob Eiler

Page from Royal Pontiac catalog showing Bobcat package.

Bob

Thanks for the info.

[Blackwood Goat]

Originally Posted by rememberfireball#22

Get Jim Wagners book "Glory Days". It will tell you everthing about Royal Pontiac and the cars. Also, pick up a copy of "Muscle Car Review" magazine. It has several good Pontiac features in this months edition, and one of the features is on Royal Pontiac.

Thanks. I will get copies.

[Blackwood Goat]

Originally Posted by Superchief455

The Dealership was called Royal Pontiac and it was located in Royal Oak Michigan. According to what i know they "started it all" for Pontiac performance wise in 1959. They designed what was called the "Bobcat Kit" for the 389 engines that found their home in the GTO's and "some" of the GTO's were ordered or produced with special paint , badging, and a column mounted "Sun" tachometer, but from what i understand and have been told some were just "plain Jane" GTO's with neither. Just like with any other Pontiac, If you contact PHS (Pontiac Historical Services) they will be able to tell you if you "have the real deal" and probably supply you with the proper documentation to prove it if that is what you're after.

From what i understand the "Bobcat-Kits" consisted of Thinner head gaskets, what they called "Positive Locking" Rocker Arm nuts, Distributor Re-Curve Kit, Progressive Tri-Power Throttle Linkage, and "richer" carb jetting For the "early" GTO's and then on the later GTO's consisted of the pre-mentioned plus the "Ram Air" package.

Thanks. I was told the info would be on the build sheet,but I doubt that since it was added on at the Dealership. I'll give PHS a try.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Blackwood Goat

Thanks. I was told the info would be on the build sheet,but I doubt that since it was added on at the Dealership. I'll give PHS a try.

You are correct; PHS will not show if the car was "Bobcatted", since that would have been done at the dealership (or via mail order).


The only way to document it conclusively would be to have the receipt from Royal showing what work had been done.

K

[Blackwood Goat]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

You are correct; PHS will not show if the car was "Bobcatted", since that would have been done at the dealership (or via mail order).


The only way to document it conclusively would be to have the receipt from Royal showing what work had been done.

K

Keith

Thats what I thought. Thanks Rich

[BVR421]

If you were not mechanically inclined you could just pop for the $.50 window bling. A nice pair of BobCat decals.

[Big Injun]

One cannot truly document any car sold at Royal Pontiac as a TRUE Royal Bobcat. All of the dealer records were lost in a fire. PHS can document for you that the car was delivered through Royal Pontiac and in some cases if the car was "Tagged Wangers" meaning that it was a promotional car.

That said, a number of cars with provenance like the C&D '64 GTO or cars who the original owner maintained the paperwork are validated Bobcats.

Unfortunately, the unscrupulous know this fact an in an effort to increase the value of a car, for sale or not, they identify the car as a TRUE Royal Bobcat at it is worth more money.

In reality, there are three kinds of Royal Bobcats; 1) The car was ordered, delivered to and then "Bobcated" (modified) by Royal Pontiac, 2) The cars was ordered and delivered to any number of Pontiac dealers who then purchased a kit from the Royal Pontiac parts department and then "Bobcated" the car, and 3) You became a member of the Royal Racing Team and purchased via mail order a Bobcat package or any number of performance parts and you, yourself "Bobcated" your car.

In any one of these cases you would receive a pair of Royal Bobcat decals and a Royal Racing Team decal to place on your Pontiac. Cars "Bobcatted" at Royal are the cars that truly carry a higher value.

Today, Jim Wangers has meticulously reproduced the Royal Bobcat emblems and the Philo Royal Racing decals. The embossed aluminum Bobcat emblems and the decals are available direct from Jim Wangers at www.geetotiger.com/Merchandise.html or through a number of Pontiac parts suppliers.

One should note that the emblems, decals and license plate frames sold by The Judges Chambers are FAKES.

[rememberfireball#22]

I can verify the fake ones from Judge Chambers. I purchased a set from them and they were junk, very thin and fragle and not very detailed. I saw the ones by Wagners a little later and ordered those. Could'nt believe the difference. Much thicker and more detailed with brighter and sharper colors. I cut out some refrigerator magnets and I can remove and replace them easily. I mainly put them on for car shows and somebody will always ask me what they mean, and I get to explain Royal Pontiac,which I love to do.

[Bob Eiler]

Originally Posted by Superchief455

Bob

where did you get the catalog from? is it a "golden oldie" or a re-pop? Always looking/interested in things of this nature.

now if we can get "that pricing" today for the same thing well, i guess we'd be in deeper than we already are.....lol

The catalog is an original. There is no date in it but looks to be around 1969. It includes

The Royal Pontiac Story

Royal Pontiac's Bobcat Package

Pontiac 68 1/2 Firebird - reprinted from Super Stock magazine

Tale Of A Tigerrrr-r - 66 GTO - reprinted from Car Craft

Two page centerfold of a 68 1/2 Firebird

Plus products and services

Talk about yesterday's prices, they sold a package to convert to 68 1/2 Ram Air for $525 which included -

complete heads
Doug's headers
camshaft
16 rocker arms and pushrod packages

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

The Fourth way was to walk into Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac Parts Dept. without becoming a member, and buy the Bobcat kit, just see Sam Frontier Parts Mgr.

The Fifth way was after April, 1969 you went to Leader Automotive and bought the Bobcat kit from George Delorean. George even did complete engines.

All of the Pontiac high performance parts on Ace's shelves, including the Royal Racing Team mailing list went to George after April 1969.

The part catalgue you have is from 1968. If i remember the red center fold Firebird should be the 1967 Royal Race Car with the gold and black Royal Pontiac front plate (Just like the one on the front of my Black Firebird)I think the Firebird is without the wraparound front turn signal. I could be wrong about with Firebird was used.

Yes, the Judges Chambers are a very bad FAKE! He even sells items that Royal Pontiac never used. ie Valve cover decals, key Fobs, and more! The window decals art work is incorrect as well.

Wangers' aluminum decals are made from the exact stock used in the '60's.

I have to give Keith Seymore and Dave Anderson credit for their efforts in trying to keep things straight.

I'm out of here.....

Eric

[Sun Tuned]

Wanna say hello to Dr. Schiffer....

I got a really nice phone call from him one afternoon to politely ask me to remove my ad in PE one day. I had used P Philo carrying a HEI dist instead of the Bobcat emblem.

Very nice man, and to this day his demeanor on the phone that day was remarkable.

That had to be the nicest request to remove my modded artwork I had heard. We had talked about the troubles with the other fellas Royal memorabilia and to say he was not remotely impressed was an understatement.

If everything that happened in the business world today had occurred with that level of professionalism on his end and mine also ... it would be amazing the things that could be accomplished.

Thanks Dr. Schiffer for that call that day. I learned alot about how the world "should" work that afternoon.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Wow, I never realized I had such an effect. You are very welcome for what ever you gleened from our conversation.

I really do appreciate you changing your logo. If only we had more people like yourself who realized they don't need to piggy back off the past successes of others.

Take care and have a great Holiday Season

Eric

[Bob Eiler]

The centerfold was a 68 Firebird. I had to look again to be certain. There is 68 1/2 Ram Air lettering on the front fender. The car doesn't have the window vents and has the wrap around turn signals. According to the window decal it was set up for C/S.

I among others thank you for the history lesson. Apparently the Silver Bullet was not as successful as the the magazines stated. That's not surprising, I witnessed car magazine test cars that were supposed to be 13 second cars were really high 14/low 15 second cars.

[abefromen]

Originally Posted by Big Injun

One should note that the emblems, decals and license plate frames sold by The Judges Chambers are FAKES.

The Judges Chambers is the only source I've come across for license plate frames. Who else offers them?

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

A great book on car road tests is the one that came out last year by Joe Oldham, I'm not at home to give you the title. But Joe does a great job telling you the behind the scenes problems and suprises about these magazine test cars.... Joe does not mince words. Joe wrote the book from his personal notes about each test....The cover is in black and white looking down the drag strip behind a '69 Camaro 427 Baldwin Motion car that Joe owned.
A must have for any car guy.
Another book that came out about a year ago was by Car and Driver with their most noteable test. The one test I liked best is the compresson of several 1969 Muscle cars. They would not publish the performance results of the '69 Judge. They say "Refer to Text. Jim and the Royal guys got caught with a ringer! The car was just too fast for the group assembled that had more advertized HP than the Judge.
This was years before the beans where spilled to the public about the '64 Car and Driver GTO's.