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#161
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Last edited by PAUL K; 03-25-2016 at 09:44 AM. |
#162
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The cars that don't have the "Burger King drive through" idle.... need a radio.
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#163
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No one has proven to me that there's better way to build a mild acting Pontiac 455 that makes very good power while running iron heads, intake, manifolds, etc. The best PROVEN combos run a cam with healthy duration and wider LSA to keep the idle under control. There's numerous 450-500 hp 455's out there this way. If someone builds the same engine with a 108 cam that has the same type of idle and vacuum, while being hamstrung with restrictive heads (even when ported, relative to cu in), iron dual plane intake, and RA manifolds I'll listen. Until then, this is all opinion. Some want a mild acting, stock appearing engine that is capable of producing 11 and low 12 sec timeslips. There are proven combos out there doing exactly that with those cookie cutter parts.
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'67 GTO 400 HO - Ram Air - 4 speed - 3.55 Safe T Track, A/C, PS, red fender liners '78 Lemans - Drag car project Last edited by 67GTO4SPEED; 03-25-2016 at 09:32 AM. |
#164
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On a lighter note, my father runs a 571 Pontiac on the street, tight LSA solid roller, pump gas, PS and PDB and a stereo. Over 700HP and almost 800 ft lbs. and he's not afraid to drive it anywhere and enjoys the hell out of it. He's already pushed past mandatory retirement but the way some of you guys are talking it sounds like you're already dusting a seat in a retirement home LOL
Gotta live a little. Here's an idle clip. It idles down to 800 in gear, and will idle like that all day in traffic, doesn't overheat and cruises fine, still has everything GM built it with and functions as such (other than a glass hood). If you wouldn't enjoy driving something like this, you need to check your pulse. He bought this car brand new and still having fun with it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF1y0F-tJ3w Last edited by Formulajones; 03-25-2016 at 10:08 AM. |
#165
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Very good point. But if a build is on a tight budget, I don't understand why would someone want to spend an additional thousand dollars to run a hydraulic roller camshaft.
Last edited by PAUL K; 03-25-2016 at 10:06 AM. |
#166
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#167
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#168
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Also if you click on the link to my business Facebook page and scroll back to 2013 there are back to back videos of my 80 Trans Am idling and my 70 RAIV TA. The 70 has a factory 041 cam with exhaust manifolds and the 80 has a solid roller ground on a 108. Both cams idle around a thousand rpm and operate the power brakes. The 70 runs 12's with a 3.70 gear shifting around 6500 rpm and the 80 runs mid tens with 3.42 gears shifting around 6000 rpm. I'm not sure how these compare to the "mild characteristics " you are inquiring about... but they are examples of powerful street cars with tight LSA cams and a stock Ram Air IV cam. Last edited by PAUL K; 03-25-2016 at 12:18 PM. |
#169
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Just a couple of closing remarks....mainly to Mr. 67GTO4SPEED
1. I've never been fixated on a 108 LSA. Not sure where that came from. 2. If you think that the LSA is the only variable to drive vacuum, idle characteristics, or horsepower, then you need to read up a little more on camshafts. 3. There are too many variables to make general statements. Again, that's the only thing that I've been preaching through this entire thread. The trend has been, "This cam was horrible, didn't have any power, no idle vacuum, spark knocked, blew the alternator off, and made my tire pressure low. I put in a 112-114 LSA cam and I received a letter from President Obama congratulating me on such a wonderful engine." Stevie Wonder could see why those two camshafts that Cliff mentioned were so far apart. 4. My point is, there are hundreds and hundreds of lobes available from Comp Cams, Bullet, Lunati, Crane, etc. There are combinations of those lobes, durations, LSA, ICL, etc. that can come together in one camshaft that can have power, vacuum, and a smooth idle if that's what you desire. 5. If someone wants to come up with a specific scenario, so that we can look at all the specs, run the math, etc., then that's perfectly fine and I would be interested in sitting down and looking at that. However, this back and forth over general statements, apples to watermelons comparisons, and emotional arguments because that's the way we've done it here for years.....I'm not in the least bit interested in that and there's nothing to be profited from it. |
#170
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#171
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Cliff had said in his testing he's seen cams that throw all the power at you down low and they out of steam by 5000. The argument by guys advocating the tighter LSA's is that they improve torque. My question is if that is really necessary with these things? Do the wide LSA cams run so good because they allow you to go up in duration and help the upper end breathing of an engine that kinda already breathing through a straw relative to the flow numbers vs cu in? Is the loss of torque offset by the improved upper end power by being able to run more duration and offset that the negative affects on drivability by widening the LSA? These are questions that seem to be answered by Cliff, SD, and Jim Hand's testing. I would love to see more tests tough. At the end of the day, I think we all interested in finding a way to make more power within the parameters of their set-up. For me, there's nothing cooler than than a car that looks stock, sounds close to stock, and runs like hell. I welcome any all input on that, but I'm not breaking out my wallet on theories. I have proven combos that I will use, unless proven there is a better option.
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'67 GTO 400 HO - Ram Air - 4 speed - 3.55 Safe T Track, A/C, PS, red fender liners '78 Lemans - Drag car project |
#172
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__________________
'67 GTO 400 HO - Ram Air - 4 speed - 3.55 Safe T Track, A/C, PS, red fender liners '78 Lemans - Drag car project |
#173
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That's why I even offered to have a camshaft ground and sent out on my dime, if someone wanted to try it. I'm not going to throw money down the drain unless I'm confident of myself. |
#174
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Forgive me if I wait until I see something besides forum posts from you before I jump on board. With that said, I am open minded. Educate away, but I'm going to have to see it with actual engines, not forum posts and theory.
__________________
'67 GTO 400 HO - Ram Air - 4 speed - 3.55 Safe T Track, A/C, PS, red fender liners '78 Lemans - Drag car project |
#175
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__________________
'67 GTO 400 HO - Ram Air - 4 speed - 3.55 Safe T Track, A/C, PS, red fender liners '78 Lemans - Drag car project |
#176
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BTW, I specialize in Fords, and I suppose that they are my niche and bring in the most income, but that doesn't mean that I don't have experience with other brands, including Pontiacs. I only added that line to my website just because I need a change in scenery. When you screw together (50) all-aluminum 482 FE's in a row, it gets a little boring. |
#177
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How about I just send you one? If you like it, you pay me. If not, it's on the house.
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#178
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I really appreciate the offer, but my car is quite a bit away from being finished. (It is in paint jail at the moment). It would sit on a stand for a while if I got it. I'd truly rather see it go to someone who can do a fair and honest comparison to a cam that is known to be a good cam for these things. I'd have no problem paying for it if it did outperform them.
__________________
'67 GTO 400 HO - Ram Air - 4 speed - 3.55 Safe T Track, A/C, PS, red fender liners '78 Lemans - Drag car project |
#179
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I must say, I see so many different engines that it's easy to me to pass judgment on different aspects of each one.
I know that lots of guys find the FE Ford pretty sexy and most guys (even GM guys) will drool at the thought of a 427 side oiler. However, I'd like to see if I could fit my hands around the neck of the engineer that decided it was a good idea to put the intake manifold gaskets submerged in oil and that the pushrods needed to be routed through it as well. I've made almost 725 hp from a factory Tunnel Port headed engine though....with a solid flat tappet that everyone seems to hate here....LOL Absolutely not a Chevy fan. LOL As far as the cam goes, my offer stands. Your project may be on hold, but a cam will store just fine in the box. If you're interested, post or PM me every single engine/car/drivetrain spec that you can think of and we'll discuss. |
#180
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I'll take you up on that offer. I know a good deal when I see one!
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