[Terry M. Hunt]

Searched this forum but did not find specifically what I was looking for. I installed a rear speaker(6X9 as I recall) in the package tray panel(the horizontal sheet metal panel behind the rear seat and beneath the rear glass) when I added AM/FM and reverb unit to my '65 2+2 during its restoration. I used the mesh covered cardboard package tray that has a series of holes punched in the cardboard that line up with the speaker in the package tray panel. The speaker grill in the center of the upper back seat is vacant, with no kind of block off plate or panel behind the grill mesh. The car was originally equipped with just and AM radio with a front speaker only. Did the factory always use this center grill in the upper seat back when a car was built with a rear speaker? Did it depend on what radio was installed? Did it depend on whether reverb was installed? Did it vary by model or assembly plant, or for some other reason? Did it depend on whether the rear seat speaker was a factory install or a dealer install? Was the center seat back grill only used on convertibles which had no package tray panel? Why is there a specific oval cut out in the package tray panel if the speaker always went into the center of the seat back? Why does the mesh package tray with the punched out holes exist if the rear speaker is always supposed to go in the center of the seat back? If I want to change from the package tray panel speaker to one for the center seat back(a round one I assume), what would be the best one to use? Can anybody post any pics of a factory installation of this upper seat back center speaker install in a hardtop? I'm confused.

[Engine-Ear]

I will throw my hat into the ring, again, based on what I have seen...

Did the factory always use this center grill in the upper seat back when a car was built with a rear speaker?
No. Catalinas (for example) don't have this grill.

Did it depend on what radio was installed?
No. You could add a rear speaker to every radio, even a base AM.

Did it depend on whether reverb was installed?
Reverb requires TWO speakers but the rear speaker could be located behind the chrome grill (if equipped) or the package tray (with the perforated mesh)/

Did it vary by model or assembly plant, or for some other reason?
?

Did it depend on whether the rear seat speaker was a factory install or a dealer install?
I would think that the dealer would go the package tray route, especially if, as in the Catalina case, the rear seat has no grill.

Was the center seat back grill only used on convertibles which had no package tray panel?
No.

Why is there a specific oval cut out in the package tray panel if the speaker always went into the center of the seat back?
See above replies.

Why does the mesh package tray with the punched out holes exist if the rear speaker is always supposed to go in the center of the seat back?
See above replies.

If I want to change from the package tray panel speaker to one for the center seat back(a round one I assume), what would be the best one to use?
If you are using a factory radio, be sure its impedance is 8 to 10 ohms. The speaker frame should be round and 6" diameter. Here is a supplier, if Ames isn't: http://www.turnswitch.com/speakers.htm (please tell them the RediRad guys sent you)

Can anybody post any pics of a factory installation of this upper seat back center speaker install in a hardtop?
I cannot.

ALSO! Be sure that the heavy cardboard insulator that lives between the back of the seat and steel has the perforations where the in-seat speaker will go. (speakers move air and without the holes it will perform poorly)

good luck, Terry!

[Terry M. Hunt]

Engine Ear, it sounds like you are saying that whenever the car has a rear seat back equipped with a speaker grill, that is where the rear speaker should be installed, not in the package tray panel. Am I interpreting what you posted correctly?

[ho421]

Matt seems to know what he's talking about here but I can attest that the center grill (above arm rest) on my 63GP did not have the rear speaker installed there. it was installed in the package tray under the mesh package tray panel.

[Engine-Ear]

Originally Posted by Terry M. Hunt

...are saying that whenever the car has a rear seat back equipped with a speaker grill, that is where the rear speaker should be installed, not in the package tray panel.

From my observations (remember that I am seeing this thru the lens of a '62 guy), factory-built rear-speaker-equipped GPs and Bonnevilles (in other words cars WITH the rear seat speaker grill) would have the speaker in the grille.

I claim that DEALER-installed rear-speakers would have been easier to add to the underside of the package tray than to remove the seat, add the speaker, etc.

[Engine-Ear]

Originally Posted by ho421

Matt seems to know what he's talking about here but I can attest that the center grill (above arm rest) on my 63GP did not have the rear speaker installed there. it was installed in the package tray under the mesh package tray panel.

Ah, interesting! This lends itself to my theory (S.W.A.G.) about dealer-vs.-production line installations.

Do you have PHS on your GP? If so, does it show the rear speaker on the build info?

[66 Wagon]

Here's some more answers to your question that I think might be correct:

Why is there a specific oval cut out in the package tray panel if the speaker always went into the center of the seat back?

The panel between the rear seat and rear window was the same on all cars, with or without radio and regardless the rear seat speaker option.
There's also a specific cut for the optional rear defroster

Why does the mesh package tray with the punched out holes exist if the rear speaker is always supposed to go in the center of the seat back?

The mesh package tray are the same for cars with or without radio and with or without rear seat speaker.
If you wanted the mesh (For example you didn't like the look of plain cardboard) you got the punched hole wether or not you ordered the radio.

I might be out and about with my answers but it seems logic

[ho421]

Originally Posted by Engine-Ear

Ah, interesting! This lends itself to my theory (S.W.A.G.) about dealer-vs.-production line installations.

Do you have PHS on your GP? If so, does it show the rear speaker on the build info?

Its on the original window sticker. Shown is a photocopy. Ill have to check my PHS documentation.

[LASJayhawk]

Speaker went in the grill on convertibles. All other cars it was mounted to the package tray. (65 B bodies)

[Engine-Ear]

Originally Posted by ho421

Its on the original window sticker. Shown is a photocopy. Ill have to check my PHS documentation.

Interesting. An assembly line manual would be worth its weight in gold right now.

By "Speaker - Rear Seat", does that mean / denote that a second speaker has been installed somewhere in the general vicinity of the rear seat? (not necessarily behind the chrome grill - IN THE REAR SEAT)

In that case, I have to assume that the front/rear speaker control lever (if not Reverb) exists on your dashboard, right?

[ho421]

Originally Posted by Engine-Ear

Interesting. An assembly line manual would be worth its weight in gold right now.

By "Speaker - Rear Seat", does that mean / denote that a second speaker has been installed somewhere in the general vicinity of the rear seat? (not necessarily behind the chrome grill - IN THE REAR SEAT)

In that case, I have to assume that the front/rear speaker control lever (if not Reverb) exists on your dashboard, right?

Yes. Front / rear switch above triple guage cluster is installed

[Engine-Ear]

I find this discovery & discussion fascinating.

[AROWHED]

Originally Posted by Engine-Ear

I find this discovery & discussion fascinating.

Matt I find your fascination with this topic fascinating!

[ho421]

Originally Posted by AROWHED

Matt I find your fascination with this topic fascinating!

About spewed my favorite beverage on that comment. proud to be a member of this forum

[brucee70]

Originally Posted by ho421

About spewed my favorite beverage on that comment. proud to be a member of this forum

LOL !!

[Engine-Ear]

I was thinking I should get a vanity license plate: 1962 OCD

...thanks for tolerating it, fellas.

[Terry M. Hunt]

LASJayhawk, it still seems odd that Pontiac would install rear seats with a speaker grill in body styles other than convertibles then(like my 2+2 hardtop and the '63 GP mentioned) if they were never going to put a speaker there. This seems sort of counterintuitive and unlike what the bean counters would typically approve. Was there a specific baffle or block off plate used behind the speaker grill that had no speaker installed or did the cardboard divider behind the seat back serve this purpose?

[LASJayhawk]

Originally Posted by Terry M. Hunt

LASJayhawk, it still seems odd that Pontiac would install rear seats with a speaker grill in body styles other than convertibles then(like my 2+2 hardtop and the '63 GP mentioned) if they were never going to put a speaker there. This seems sort of counterintuitive and unlike what the bean counters would typically approve. Was there a specific baffle or block off plate used behind the speaker grill that had no speaker installed or did the cardboard divider behind the seat back serve this purpose?

Not that I'm aware of. And the book matches every car I've had with a rear seat speaker or reverb.

[Engine-Ear]

Thanks, LAS!!

[Terry M. Hunt]

Yep, I'd say that is the definitive answer.