[dhr1022]

Has anybody used these control arms?
Are they able to be used with a spindle for disc brakes?
What spindle/rotor/caliper assm. did you use?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Heavy-Duty-...sid=m570.l1313
Thanks, I was going to replace the bushings in my OEM A-Arms but these look more cost effective, considering time and parts prices.

[HWYSTR455]

Yes, those are the ones that a number of aftermarket vendors sell, the only real complaint is that the ball joints that are in them are junk. So replace those before putting them into use.

Those work with the OE spindles, drum or disc, and work with AFX spindles as well.

Depending on your budget, the best spindle to use is hands down, the AFX/Speedtech spindles. Not inexpensive, but there are so many pluses when using them, they are totally worth it. In the long run, you will save money on big brake kits. C5/C6 brakes bolt right on.

Kore3 and a couple others have big brake kits for not only the disc spindle but also the drum spindle. Have to do your homework there and choose based on what you have and what your budget is.

Springs, my personal preference is Global West, but Speedtech, and a couple others are great too.

Sway bars, I use OE type sway bars, and in general, any replacement sway bar should be fine. You can step up to hollow or others if you have the budget.

Rear control arms, again, I prefer the Global West ones with the del-alum bushings, but many others are fine, such as Speedtech, BMR, etc.

Rear brakes depend on your differential & front brakes, front brakes depend on your spindle, so once you have that figured out, you know which way to go.

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[64speed]

I have those control arms on mine. I replaced the ball joints with proforged for the tall ball joint conversion but other than that they are NO different than my father in laws real global west arms for a thousand dollars more

[64speed]

Also I put a quick performance 9 inch in my car and used all UMI suspension items in the rear and I have been very pleased. If you are taking the car off the frame and you want to do the shock tower brace do it while the car is off

[JLMounce]

As others have said, replace the ball joints. You can do tall uppers and lowers on your setup which will help correct camber gain in bump which those arms themselves will not do. They provide extra caster, which is helpful, but doesn't address the inherent camber gain issues in the system.

I would also recommend taking those polyurethane bump stops out. Those act as a bouncy ball in the system and create a bounce/rebound effect in the car when they are acted upon. It's literally the same stuff they make super balls out of.

Either go to a rubber bump stop like you'd see factory (same issue, but to a lesser extent) or buy progressive rate jounce bumpers. Going to those, when you load the suspension and interact with the bump stop, the car takes a set and stays there instead of hitting the stop and bouncing back up.

I run Hotchkis springs in my car. They are on the stiffer side, so if ride quality is desired you may want to look at the global west or speedtech offerings which are a bit lighter on the rate.

I run Hellwig bars personally and recommend them. They are high quality, stock style and won't brake the bank.

Finally, don't forget about a good pair of shocks to go with the new hardware.

[dhr1022]

What are tall ball joints and whats the difference.
also whats is meant by bump stops, if your talking about the little rubber blocks on control arms i don't see how or what they contact.
As I said confused
Thanks for all info greatly appreciated.

[66sprint6]

I can't think of a time where my suspension was compressed enough to hit the bump stops (yes, they are the rubber blocks on the control arms), but I would think that the factory rubber ones would be the best. As far as the rest of it goes, I believe that these are the steps you take to do a basic upgrade for a noticeable improvement.

1) Front control arms: Install Global West or Global West knock-offs. If you go with the knock-offs, replace the ball joints as they are inferior.

2) . The new front control arms can create issues of their own. As the suspension goes through it's range of motion, the geometry can change and the car seems to want to steer itself in a corner (bump steer). This can be mitigated by going with special ball joints with longer shafts that help align the components.

3) . Rear control arms. . There are a lot of competitively priced products to improve the rear suspension and it's hard to screw it up. I don't know if it falls under suspension, but a lot of people are now installing the frame braces that tie the rear control arm mounting points to the frame.

4) . Springs. There is a huge range of products available from RockAuto to Global west. Price may be a determining factor. Whatever you choose will probably be an improvement over the old ones.

Good luck with your improvements!

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by dhr1022

What are tall ball joints and whats the difference.
also whats is meant by bump stops, if your talking about the little rubber blocks on control arms i don't see how or what they contact.
As I said confused
Thanks for all info greatly appreciated.

This is probably going to be long, but I'm going to try and explain why you want tall ball joints as well as progressive rate jounce bumpers.

Tall ball joints are just that, a ball joint with a taller pillar than factory. It increases the effective spindle height which changes the pivot angles of the arms to allow for negative camber gain in bump, instead of positive camber gain that you see from the factory spindle height and ball joints. This provides added grip during cornering and mixed with the aftermarket arm's increase in caster potential helps high speed stability. The tall lower joint utilized in A bodies also helps to reduce bump steer. The other option is a tall spindle like the AFX spindle which does the same thing.

As far as the bump stock goes, yes I'm discussing the rubber blocks on the arms. On most aftermarket arms (and basically all the cheaper knock-offs), they are polyurethane. Not because that's a good substance to have in your suspension setup, but because in large enough production quantities, it's basically free.

The A-body short-long arm suspension in stock form has about 3" of compression travel in it and a little bit more droop travel. Mixed with a factory rate spring, it moves a LOT. You absolutely will come into contact with that bump stop. If it wasn't possible it wouldn't be on the arm to begin with.

That poly material is what toy companies make bouncey balls out of. So when you hit a bump and come down on that poly stop, it bounces the car back up. Add in a factory style shock that has little to no rebound damping in it and the car floats up into it's droop travel and gives that floaty feeling.

Modern cars don't use bump stops like that any longer. They all use progressive rate jounce bumpers or pads made from micro-cellular foam. This stuff can be compressed to something like 80% of it's original size. As it does so, instead of giving, then bouncing back, it progressively adds rate to the system. So instead of coming down, slamming into a bouncy ball and springing back up, the suspension gets progressively stiffer, slowing the compression motion and allowing the suspension and car to return to it's nominal ride height in a controlled manor. It allows you to run softer springs with less shock damping while providing better control over rough roads and in pothole situations.

the SPC bumpers that I run look like this, but you can find these through many retailers.



They're about 35-40 bucks or so and on a stock height car are designed to sit about a 1/4" away from the bumper pad. When you're in compression, you're almost always utilizing the jounce bumper to add a bit of rate when needed.

This is just my opinion, but if you're at the point where you are seriously looking at suspension changes that include arms, it's in for a penny, in for a pound. If you're not ready for those types of changes, or they don't really fit into the budget, you're much better off using quality stock components and putting as close to a modern alignment in the system as you can.

[dhr1022]

My package arrived yesterday and the package was damaged, upper control arm ball joint damaged, lower control arm scraped and paint damaged.
Think i might just replace bushings and rubbers on oem control arms.
Not sure what to do.

[JLMounce]

There's really nothing wrong with the factory control arms. If you're wanting to keep the factory ride height and like the stiffness of the factory springs. In that case, I would replace the bushings with a quality high durometer rubber bushing and new quality ball joints. If you want you can go to tall upper and lower ball joints. I've had both the proforged units and the howe units. The howe's are superior by far but are also more expensive. The proforged joints are fine for typical street duty stuff though.

If you do a tall lower ball joint, the front end will come down approximately half an inch.

Once you have everything reinstalled, when you go for an alignment shoot for as modern an alignment as the tech's are able to get. Somewhere around the numbers below would be a good start.

-.5* camber
+3* caster
1/16th" toe in

A word on caster. The factory arms typically don't allow for very much positive caster. This was likely done because the arms were the same whether you had a power steering equipped car or not. High degrees of positive caster make the effort required to steer increase. So I'm fairly certain GM erred on the side on constraint with that. If you have power steering, basically try and get as much reasonable positive caster that the tech can evenly provide, or provide for with a road crown alignment.

Then add a quality shock while you're in there. You can add a larger front sway bar as well while you're in there.

This will give you a trouble free driving experience that will for the most part look and feel stock. However the inclusion of the modern alignment, possible tall ball joints and a larger front sway bar will slightly improve handling, road feel and tire life.

Because the GM steering system is rear steer, adding positive caster also has the net benefit of reducing bump steer.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by dhr1022

My package arrived yesterday and the package was damaged, upper control arm ball joint damaged, lower control arm scraped and paint damaged.
Think i might just replace bushings and rubbers on oem control arms.
Not sure what to do.

You have to replace the ball joints anyway, so that's not particularly a problem. Depending on how bad the paint is, just shoot it with a rattle can. Not many are going to crawl under there and look, so there too, no biggie. They are still hands-down way better than the OE ones. And sure it's a lot less work than getting the OE ones cleaned up and bushings/joints installed.

You could send them back and get new ones too.

.

[rohrt]

Lots of strong opinions on those arms.

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ht=china+A-arm

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ht=china+A-arm

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ht=china+A-arm

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ht=china+A-arm

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...West-knock-off

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ht=china+A-arm

[HWYSTR455]

Those are the same arms Right Stuff sells, the arms themselves are good. Most of the complaints are from the ball joints, as mentioned, change them immediately. You can't get as much caster out of them as you can the GW arms, but can get very close. I think I got a hair over 4 degrees, the GWs can get over 5.

True too on the bumpers, it would be best to replace them, especially if you're using stock type spring rates.

I inspected the ones I purchased, welds, everything, and couldn't find any flaw in general construction. It aligned well, and they perform well, definitely worth the money.

Another problem is how they list the applications, some list them to fit 1st gen F-bodies and Novas. Those people have had issues with install, alignment, and operation. For 68-72 A-bodies, they are fine. I personally don't recall specific info for 64-67 A-bodies, may want to get input from those types of owners.

Whatever you do, don't get the spindles or the brakes from those places, or IMO, CPP either. I posted a specific experience here on the CPP control arms, 'corvette type' spindles, and brakes. Run from that stuff.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...&highlight=CPP

I know a number of folks that have used those arms, and after addressing the ball joints, are happy and not having issues. But you have to buy the ones that have the cross brace, like the ones the OP posted, there are others out there that look very similar which are junk. And lots of people confuse them with the ones with the brace, giving them a bad rap.

.

[64speed]

Like I said I installed them on a 64 Tempest. Look good so far. I replaced the ball joints with proforged tall ball joints

[Chris65LeMans]

Originally Posted by rohrt

Lots of strong opinions on those arms.

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ht=china+A-arm

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ht=china+A-arm

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ht=china+A-arm

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ht=china+A-arm

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...West-knock-off

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ht=china+A-arm

I agree with the “you get what you pay for” folks here. Those EBay parts look a Little too cheap - as in: there is no way that the build quality, stiffness, strength, etc can be comparable to the UMIs at 20% of the cost.

I’m often surprised that there are folks on this forum who refuse to use what they call “cheap Chinese-made crap” when it comes to quarter panels, but are fine with using obviously cheaply-made suspension parts where a failure would have much larger consequences.

[JLMounce]

In general you’re not entirely wrong. However the stock arms are literally stamped steel. They aren’t rigid or quality in and of themselves. When it comes to the arms themselves, even the China stuff is fine. As mentioned, the moving parts are where the money is being saved there. Put quality moog ball joints on them and it’s fine.

[64speed]

Trust me I have the arms and they are heavy as hell, have good bushings in them and Heim joint swaybar mounts and everything the GLOBAL WEST do. I would be willing to bet they both come down the assembly line in China and one gets a global west sticker and one doesn’t. Hell Summit and Jegs are selling them now under their house brand name.

[Chris65LeMans]

Originally Posted by 64speed

Trust me I have the arms and they are heavy as hell, have good bushings in them and Heim joint swaybar mounts and everything the GLOBAL WEST do. I would be willing to bet they both come down the assembly line in China and one gets a global west sticker and one doesn’t. Hell Summit and Jegs are selling them now under their house brand name.

How do they ride? As for heavy as hell, isn’t a lower unsprung weight the goal?

[64speed]

Haven’t gotten to drive the car as it’s roadworthiness is still years away but I did have it aligned with the specs provided with the global west sets that I got them to email me and had no problem. I did replace the ball joints with proforged uppers and lower tall ball joints but Neighborscomplaint is running them straight out of the box with no complaint

[HWYSTR455]

Lower unsprung weight is a goal, but you shouldn't sacrifice rigidity for it. Deflection causes the tire to track unevenly. The trade off is worth the added rigidity.

.