[Lightfoot]

I'm replacing a very long line that goes from the master to the LR. The original was one continuous piece, over 120 inches. This means I'll have to use at least three pre-flared sections, as the longest available is 51 inches.
I was never very good at using a flaring tool, plus the OEM fittings are bubble flared anyway, so that kind of canceled my option of just replacing the corroded portion of the line. I'll still probably end up having to use a thread adapter or two. The master port has metric threads, and the flex hose inlet is 3/8-24 if I'm not mistaken.
Now my question: How do the two different materials compare as far as ease of bending? Also, is the PVF coating durable enough to withstand scratching during the fitting/istallation process? Does it last indefinately or eventually erode from age, like paint? I know the NiCopp is supposed to never rust, but it is more costly & hard to find in bubble flared.
I did use a piece of NiCopp to replace my left front on the same car, three years ago. I found it not quite as easy to bend/shape as was advertised.

Looking at the various pieces on Oreilly and Advance websites is a bit bewildering, since they have so many combinations of pipe size/thread size/flare type, and I have to factor in my starting point and end point have the two different thread sizes.

Sorry for the long post but I'm trying to eliminate the Q/A back & forth as much as possible.
This is for my daily driver FWD LeSabre, and I'm on a budget.

[Lightfoot]

Forgot to mention that in the detailed description(s) on Oreilly's website it says no tubing bender is required on most of the PVF part listings. I find this a little hard to believe, knowing that they are still made of steel. Is there some quality about that coated stuff that makes it easier to bend than a traditional steel brakeline, or are they just assuming the average do it yourselfer is a crackerjack wizz at bending and shaping the small size pipes?
Maybe it only pertains to the KINKability of the specified pipe?

I plan on keeping this car for as long as humanly possible, BTW.

[Sirrotica]

Ni Copp, and never worry about it again. It bends very easily around bends.

It flares easily, because it's fairly soft. Make sure you use double flares, if you have doubts about your ability to flare it watch a few videos on you tube to see how to do it properly. A bubble flare is just a double flare left unfinished. The initial cost is more for materials simpoly because copper and nickel is more expensive than steel is.

You need a flaring tool that is a quality tool, the ones under $50 are mostly junk.

I've been using Ni Copp for over 10 years now, and would never go back to steel.

[BILL BOWMAN1]

That dark gray/ black steel line is a MF to deal with!
Definitely use the NI copper.

[mgarblik]

I would use nickel copper in that application for a couple reasons. 1. You can buy a 25' roll and make that long line in 1 continuous run. 2. No bending tool needed. Just take your time and hand bend the entire line. 3. Super easy to flare. You can buy all the necessary conversion fittings, borrow a flaring tool from most parts stores and for around $50.00 total have a line that will last forever and look nice.

[jerry455]

I have bought sections of lines and union connectors to join them. Try to get a rough measurement of length and sections of lines available. My local Auto Zone let me go behind the counter where they store all of the various lengths of line. I "pieced" together lines on a couple of cars over the years and never had any problems. Not the cleanest look but easy in a pinch. Ny-copper is the way to go.

[dataway]

Another vote for the Nickel copper ... stuff is a joy to work with.

[Sirrotica]

In 2009 I bought a 93 K3500 that the previous owner had just used premade NAPA steel lines with unions, because the dreaded rear line had rusted out.

He put the lines on so he could sell the truck, so they were brand new when I purchased it. In 4 years, the brand new lines were again rusted out. I replaced every line on the truck with Ni-Copp, and 10 years later all the lines are still intact. At my age, they'll outlast me .......LOL

Premium car manufacturers have been using Ni-Copp lines for a decade or so, even though they cost the manufacturer more to use them. It's really worth the extended lifetime of the lines to spend the extra money. I know my life, or someone in my family's life is worth the extra money, plus you'll never have to do the labor again because of rust, or corrosion from road salt.

[Lightfoot]

Per the detailed description on Oreilly's site: NiCopp " Bends 58 percent Easier than Steel Tubing ".
So the concensis is to go with that, and I agree it's well worth the extra cost.
That said, I wish I could find a part number with metric (10mm) fittings on it.
I rechecked the work I did three years ago, and found that I had to use an adapter for the flex hose end as well as the master cyl. So I presume all my flex hoses are 10mm on the female end. I 'gauged' the fitting with an open end wrench and it seems to confirm it. The master port is 12mm for sure.
I did find a part number for a 72" PVF line with 10mm bubble flare ends at Oreillys. So tempting, but I have to make so many bends.
If you guys say the flares are easier to make on the NiCopp, maybe I can just cut and flare them with a rental tool from Advance. I did also find a 72" NiCopp line for $22.99. The 51" line is $17.99, at both Oreilly and Advance. So that's $41 plus the union and adapters if nesassary.
I might get an 8" adaptor line with the SAE to 12mm ends just in case the 123" total runs short.

Thanks for the feedback and all the good info. The more ideas, the better my options get.
P.S. I'm doing all this work laying on the ground with the left side tires blocked up as high as I could jack them.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by Lightfoot

Per the detailed description on Oreilly's site: NiCopp " Bends 58 percent Easier than Steel Tubing ".
So the concensis is to go with that, and I agree it's well worth the extra cost.
That said, I wish I could find a part number with metric (10mm) fittings on it.
I rechecked the work I did three years ago, and found that I had to use an adapter for the flex hose end as well as the master cyl. So I presume all my flex hoses are 10mm on the female end. I 'gauged' the fitting with an open end wrench and it seems to confirm it. The master port is 12mm for sure.
I did find a part number for a 72" PVF line with 10mm bubble flare ends at Oreillys. So tempting, but I have to make so many bends.
If you guys say the flares are easier to make on the NiCopp, maybe I can just cut and flare them with a rental tool from Advance. I did also find a 72" NiCopp line for $22.99. The 51" line is $17.99, at both Oreilly and Advance. So that's $41 plus the union and adapters if nesassary.
I might get an 8" adaptor line with the SAE to 12mm ends just in case the 123" total runs short.

Thanks for the feedback and all the good info. The more ideas, the better my options get.
P.S. I'm doing all this work laying on the ground with the left side tires blocked up as high as I could jack them.

When I have odd fittings on the ends of the lines, even in US sized tubing, rather than going nuts trying to find the correct adapters, I cut the flares off of the ends of the old tubing and reuse the OEM fittings on the lines I make. It's soooo much easier than trying to hunt the correct adapters. With this in mind I do every thing I can do to save the OEM fittings including using a torch to get the fitting out if needbe. Heating the fitting up and quenching it quickly, will usually break the corrosion bond on the threads.

If you've ever flared copper tubing, it's simple to flare, Ni-Copp flares just as easy as copper tubing does. The nickle keeps the copper from work hardening from vibration, when copper work hardens it becomes brittle, and is suseptible to break. The people that came up with Ni-Copp did the automotive world a great service.

Amazon is usually the best pricing on Ni-Copp lines when buying a coil of it:

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=nicopp+li...f=nb_sb_noss_1

[Lightfoot]

Thanks Brad. I do have the OEM fittings if I need them. The master one that takes a 14mm wrench is a little chewy from surface corrosion plus a little wrench slippage, even though I've always used a SnapOn Flank Drive open end on it. I can always touch it up with a file though.
The down stream end fitting came out clean thanks to sliding a box end over the old line (I cut it where the leak was) all the way up to the fitting.

I'm looking at the flaring tools on the websites now. The 29.99 one has nothing but bad reviews, lol.
I'm wondering if this one will do bubble flares like the factory made 'em?
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c...?q=51535&pos=1

[Sirrotica]

If you want one that will last you need to spend some money. Ridgid makes professional grade flaring tools, but your looking at $120:

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Ridgid-2...6ffa33e492f4d0

The dies won't get wallowed out in one or two uses like the chinese made ones do. Notice the bolt to put pressure on the dies so they don't deform, and slip.

[dataway]

I ended up replacing half my brand new SS brake line kit with NiCop lines to get rid of pesky leaks. SS is good, but much harder to work with, and tightening the fittings becomes kind of an art form which you don't learn till half way through the job. Not to mention NiCop is WAY easier to massage into position than SS.

Can't say enough good things about it, it's now my go-to material for fluid lines both automotive any other use like air or any other system that uses flared fittings.

[mgarblik]

You can buy bubble flare/double flare conversion fittings. But I also think you can borrow/rent double flare and bubble flare kits from many parts stores for free or a small fee. The tools don't even have to be very good to flare the soft nickel/copper line. When you get the flaring tools, make a couple practice flares and then cut them off to get the feel of the tools. The cheap tools seem to work best if you put a dab of white grease on the flare area when forming. Then brake clean it off when done. DO NOT forget to put the fitting on the line facing the right direction before making your flare! Ask me how I know! I live in the rust belt. At the peak of my business, I was making 500-700 ft. of brake and fuel lines a year. I have a super nice hydraulic flaring tool from Master Cool. It is about a $300.00 kit but saved me thousands in time. Replacing all the brake, fuel, and vapor lines on a GM pick-up which was common took about 6-8 hours. Also about 100ft. of line. Dealers around here were getting $1600.00 to 2K to replace them all. I was doing them for a little over half that. Good luck. You should be fine.

[tooski]

I did all of the brake lines on my 66 with ni cop. I bought a decent bending tool and a S.U.R & R HFT50 flaring tool. The flaring tool is a bit pricier now than when I bought. I bought all of the inverted flare nuts at my local ACE hardware store. Excellent selection. Previous to the HFT 50 tool I had an in-line flaring tool (not the one with with the 'u' clamp) for small jobs. It worked well enough, but not nearly as good as the HFT, and required a bit more finesse.

[Lightfoot]

A little update on my brake work.
I've got the new NiCopp line up under the body and connected from master to rear brake hose. It took two pre formed lengths; 72 inch and 60 inch. It turned out to be about 8-10 inches too long but no problem, I just made a swooping bend down under the booster before it headed down the floor pan. A 72" and 51" combination would have been just the right length but I didn't want to risk falling just a little short.

Not quite out of the woods yet though, as now I've got a dillema: The upstream fitting on the union between sections is seeping and I can't get it to stop.
At first it was dripping pretty heavily on the first few pushes of the pedal with air still in the system. I thought I had it snugged fairly decent, but I gave it a couple more good tugs. Still slow drip. Then I took it apart to inspect the flair and make sure it wasn't cracked. I couldn't see that it was damaged. Inside the brass union looked normal. Put it back together and wrenched it down again. I think the fluid lubricated the threads to allow a bit extra tightening than previous attempt. Wiped it all dry and decided to let it sit over night before touching the pedal again.
Well there wasn't any drips on the cardboard this morning but there was a sliver of dampness around the threads. Gave the pedal a couple of gental pushes and it just slightly increased the wetness. Still air in the line so it isn't real life pressure, mind you. Pushed the pedal down farther and pinned it with my brake holding board. A slow drip gradually appeared. I know it's only going to get worse if I get the air bled out and have power assist in play.
At this point, I think my only option is to try cutting off the end and re-flaring it.
Anyone else had this kind of problem? If I try tightening any further, will the Brass cone in the union get ruined before the copper flare splits or squishes beyond function? I ain't Lou Ferrigno but I know I have put more than enough starch on this thing that it would normally seal fine.

P.S. one thing I don't like about this set-up is the fittings on the new line have a lot longer thread than will go into the union. Over twice as much. If I could get a longer union, I almost believe that might shut it down.
I'd try thread tape if I thought I could get it in there without the brake fluid desolving it.

[Sirrotica]

Don't use thread sealant tape on a flared fitting, the seal is at the flare, and the seat in union. You're wasting your time trying to seal it at the threads. Years of working on hydraulic systems I've seen this done time after time, and it's an exercise in futility, the threads don't seal anything.

If you think you have a crack you can't see, you can heat the flare up with a propane torch, and it may show up. The heat will open up a crack and make it more evident. I've had to do this previously to find cracks in flares.

Many times tightening a connection, then loosening it several times will seat it. There are also malleable flare gaskets that you install between the flare, and seat that are many times used to seal really hard tubing, such as stainless steel. The Nicopp is usually soft enough that it will conform to small irregularities after tightening, and loosening the connection repeatedly.

The other option is you have plenty of tubing to cut it off, and redo te flare. The rest of your connections have sealed, so there's something different about this particular joint.

Link to tubing flare gaskets:

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=tubing+fl...ref=nb_sb_noss

This is what I'd suggest to seal your connection, I hope this helps.

[tooski]

Originally Posted by Lightfoot

Anyone else had this kind of problem? If I try tightening any further, will the Brass cone in the union get ruined before the copper flare splits or squishes beyond function?

On my 66 Chevy II I have 1 line coming off the master for the fronts. It then tees to both sides. One of the three fittings on the tee had what I would call a substantial leak for a brake line. I tightened it a bit more maybe two or three times. Reduced the leak quite a bit. Then I backed off and re tightened. I can't recall how may times but more than just a couple. No more leakage. I was almost to the point of redoing that line.