Pontiac - Race The next Level

          
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  #101  
Old 04-21-2024, 04:02 PM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
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Originally Posted by Tim Corcoran View Post
Drilling plug to lubricate distributor gear
I have found the OEM 5/16 square head plugs are not as hard as a modern Allen head plugs.
So I drilled them with a 1/8" bit almost all the way. Then finished it off with a .030-.040 drill bit.
Some guys just drill a brass plug. But I am afraid to. If it strips out down in that hole you have a problem.
Steel, I have drilled a hole, heated and shrunk them and they came out. One I had to cut out with a torch.

  #102  
Old 04-21-2024, 08:16 PM
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Prior to installing the rear main seal I checked the crankshaft rotational torque and the end play. I installed the crank and torqued all the caps. It took 7.5 inch pounds to get the crank to turn and slightly less running torque.
Just to clarify you got 7.5lbs to turn off just the crank?

  #103  
Old 05-24-2024, 11:20 AM
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Yes 7.5 inch pounds to turn the crank

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  #104  
Old 05-24-2024, 12:21 PM
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I have been out of the country on a long term business trip and now getting back to finishing this engine up. I am currently file fitting the rings. I have Total Seal classic style rings. The instructions specify ring gap for the top and second ring to be the bore size X .0045. In my case bore is 4.181 this works out to be .019. This is for a naturally aspirated engine, if using N20 or boost the gap is increased per the chart. If using hypereutectic pistons you need to follow the piston manufactures instructions for the gap. Many engines have been ruined by using too small of a gap with hypereutectic pistons. It's important to note too small of a gap can cause severe engine damage so always lean towards a larger gap as a few thousands more gap won't hurt performance. For the oil rail spec is .015 minimum. In my case I did not need to file them. I did check every oil rail ring and they all had more than .020 gap. Even though the instructions specified the same gap for the top and second ring I gapped the second ring around .003 larger than the top ring. I ended up with .019-.020 on the top ring and .0023-.0024 on the second ring. Some believe the gap on the second ring should always be larger than the top ring. The reason is if gas get trapped between the rings it may cause ring flutter at RPM. A hand rotating file device (see photo) is all that is needed and not expensive at all. When filing always turn the grinding wheel towards the front side of the ring. The rings for each piston need to be matched to a specific cylinder bore so mark the top of the pistons with a sharpie to make sure. I filed each set then installed them on the correct piston one at a time. The ring gap is measured at approximately one inch down in the bore and the ring must be squared up. I did this with an old piston to push the ring down into the bore. You can not be in a hurry during this process. Place the ring in the bore, measure the gap, file a little at a time then check then repeat etc. Make sure your cuts are only on one side of the ring and you maintain a square edge. You can check this by holding the ring gap closed in your hand and viewing it at the light. If it's not square you can correct it when you file to size. Before you install the pistons into the bore the orientation of the rings is very important. The rings came with instruction on how to orient each ring on the piston. Make sure you have plenty of light when filing the rings. After all rings are properly gapped I will move on to hanging the pistons on the rods.
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  #105  
Old 05-24-2024, 12:33 PM
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  #106  
Old 05-24-2024, 02:11 PM
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Great job explaining the process, kudos!

I tried to tell folks to go bigger on the gaps but so many think there will be blow-by or loss of power, which is totally not the case unless you go REAL big, compared to the specs anyway. Like .010 or more. I just usually recommend going to the 1st spec for spray and you can use the same gap on top & 2nd. Personally, I usually go to the 2nd step of N2O spec.

The ring 'flutter' I believe only occurs at extended high RPM was my understanding but doubt it's a problem/concern for most here, unless in competition. Great to bring it up though for sure!

Most top & 2nd rings have a mark on them, a dimple or color, that denoted top and 2nd, for ease of identification, and the mark should always face up towards the top of the bore.

For deburring after cutting rings a small, fine honing stone can be used, which is generally safer than a file, even a fine one.

Mm, sorry about the brain dump!

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  #107  
Old 05-24-2024, 03:46 PM
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Thanks for the comments I see I forgot to cover those important points. My rings had a dimple on the second ring and some etching with the ring size on the top ring. Instructions said the etching and dimple goes up. And yes, there is a burr that needs to be removed after filing the ring. Remove the burr with a small stone or a small Jewelers file on the top and bottom of the ring where it was filed and a small burr on the inside surface you can feel it with your finger. I have used a stone and jewelers file both with success.

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  #108  
Old 05-25-2024, 08:04 AM
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Great write-up on ring fitting! That process is very fresh in my memory since that was my project for last Wednesday evening. Sounds like we have the same system for fitting rings!

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  #109  
Old 05-25-2024, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by HWYSTR455 View Post
Great job explaining the process, kudos!

I tried to tell folks to go bigger on the gaps but so many think there will be blow-by or loss of power, which is totally not the case unless you go REAL big, compared to the specs anyway. Like .010 or more. I just usually recommend going to the 1st spec for spray and you can use the same gap on top & 2nd. Personally, I usually go to the 2nd step of N2O spec.

The ring 'flutter' I believe only occurs at extended high RPM was my understanding but doubt it's a problem/concern for most here, unless in competition. Great to bring it up though for sure!

Most top & 2nd rings have a mark on them, a dimple or color, that denoted top and 2nd, for ease of identification, and the mark should always face up towards the top of the bore.

For deburring after cutting rings a small, fine honing stone can be used, which is generally safer than a file, even a fine one.

Mm, sorry about the brain dump!

.
I know some of the specs for one of the greatest Pontiac NA builds ever. It had .050 on the bottom ring.

  #110  
Old 05-25-2024, 11:06 PM
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After file fitting the rings I moved on to hanging the pistons on the rods and installing the rods and pistons into the engine. An important item to be extra careful with. The rods have a chamfer on one side. Make sure you have the chamfer side of the rod against the radius side of the rod journal. Two rods on a rod journal, the chamfer side goes against the crank and the two rods but up on the flat sides. Make sure the valve reliefs in the pistons are up and towards the center of the engine. If there are two valve there is usually a notch or arrow something to indicate the orientation. When you attach the rod to the piston check the orientation to make sure you got it right. Installation of the spiro locks can be challenging if it's your first time. The thing that helps the most is stretching out the spring before assembly (see photo). Every engine builder develops their own method of installing these just make sure you got the piston on the rod correctly or you will be removing them to turn the rod around and getting them out is even more of a challenge. I use a small flat screwdriver to help push the lock in place. Remember there are 4 per piston, count them before you start and make sure you have 32. Then pull four out at a time stretch them out and install them. Install two on one side of the piston then lube the rod bushing the piston and the wrist pin with engine oil. Next install the wrist pin through the piston and rod then install the other two spiro locks. The last thing you do before dropping the piston in the hole is make sure the rings are oriented on the pistons per the diagram that comes with the rings. Now is a good time to double check you have your dot or other marking on the rings up per the instructions. I draw an arrow indicating the front of the engine on top of the piston with a sharpie to make sure I don't get confused when lining up the rings. Every ring has a correct position including the upper, lower and expander oil rings. I use an aluminum adjustable ring compressor to guide the piston in while holding the rings in place. This is not a one size fits all tool, it has a range of bore sizes it works on. Again when dropping in the piston double check the piston is on the rod correctly where the radius on the rod goes against the radius of the journal. The ring compressor is tapered to compress the rings as the piston is lowered into the cylinder. Make sure you have the rod bearings installed correct. They are marked upper and lower. Don't forget the engine is upside down the upper goes on the rod and the lower goes on the cap. Make sure your piston skirt is lubed with motor oil and your rod bearing is coated with your favorite engine assembly lube or motor oil. I lightly coat the cylinder wall with motor oil then wipe it off before dropping the piston in. I know others have their own preference, automatic transmission fluid etc. but I use motor oil. Some say to put oil all over the rings so the ring lands are covered others say leave the rings dry or the rings won't seat. Make sure you at least put motor oil on the skirts. If the ring compressor is too loose the rings will catch on the top of the deck, don't apply a lot of force or you can damage the rings. I use the handle side of a deal blow hammer to lightly tap the piston down. If the ring compressor is too tight the piston will get stuck in the tool. Trial and error here take your time and don't use too much force. Another thing I do is rotate the crank to position the rod journal fully down so the rod won't hit anything as your installing the piston. After the piston is at deck level you can get the ring compressor out of the way and slowly tap the piston down while carefully guiding the rod into position with your other hand. Once the rod is seated on the journal flip the engine over install the cap make sure you lube the bearing, then move on to the next cylinder. Make sure you apply the correct lubricant to your fasteners. In my case I applied ARP moly lube to the bolt threads, under the head of the bolt and at the cap where the bolt seats. I just install them hand tight with a wrench. After all pistons are installed I torque them all down in three steps. then I go back and check every rod a second time to make sure I didn't miss one. Then I check the main caps one more time to make sure they are all torqued to spec.
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  #111  
Old 05-25-2024, 11:08 PM
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  #112  
Old 06-01-2024, 05:17 PM
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I just finished installing the Ultradyne solid roller cam and the new Butler Pro Billet Timing Set, Billet Gears 9 Keyway Crank Sprocket .005 Short. Since the engine was line honed the standard timing set was way too loose. The .005 short set fit perfectly.

https://butlerperformance.com/i-3164...tegory:1234831

Since I'm not using a mechanical fuel pump I wanted to get rid of the eccentric assembly. I used the Butler Timing Chain Gear Retaining Washer/Spacer. This is a clean way to eliminate un-needed hardware.

https://butlerperformance.com/search.html?q=bpi-cw-101

The cam is the same one I used in the 455 engine. I was happy with the performance with that cam so there was no reason to change. The only difference is the 455 engine had Harland Sharp 1.5 rockers and I am going with 1.65 Crowers on this build. Cam specs are Master Lobes R44/R41, 264/268 @ .050 176/187 @ .200, .3944/.3944 Lobe Lift, LSA 108. Bullet Cams suggested I install it at 106 but it came in at 107 and the timing gear set is adjustable in 2 degree increments so I am happy with 107. The 455 engine had the Doug Herbert made in the USA solid lifters and they held up for many years of racing and are still in excellent condition. But to be on the safe side I bought a new set, also the Doug Herberts.
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  #113  
Old 06-01-2024, 05:21 PM
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The Doug Herbert Lifters

I don't know why some of the photos rotate when I attach them. Sorry about that.
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  #114  
Old 06-01-2024, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Dragncar View Post
I know some of the specs for one of the greatest Pontiac NA builds ever. It had .050 on the bottom ring.
Bottom or did you mean 2nd ring?


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  #115  
Old 06-01-2024, 10:37 PM
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This is a nice journal of your build with a lot of detail along the way. Thanks for sharing this.

  #116  
Old 06-02-2024, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by HWYSTR455 View Post
Bottom or did you mean 2nd ring?


.
Yes.

  #117  
Old 06-02-2024, 06:55 AM
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Interesting for sure. Well top ring is more critical in 'most' apps but am guessing the engine was purpose built for something that has either high peak RPMs and/or sustained higher RPMs? Or possibly for dyno competition? Top ring had a tight gap?


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1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2
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1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car
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  #118  
Old 06-02-2024, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HWYSTR455 View Post
Interesting for sure. Well top ring is more critical in 'most' apps but am guessing the engine was purpose built for something that has either high peak RPMs and/or sustained higher RPMs? Or possibly for dyno competition? Top ring had a tight gap?


.
Enlarging the gaps as you go down from the top helps engines with vacuum pumps. Generally the gap keeps getting bigger until you get to the the bottom oil ring.

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  #119  
Old 06-03-2024, 06:31 PM
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I have the crank scraper adjusted and glued down with silicone Ultra Black. I have the dipstick tube in place and have adjusted the Tomahawk windage tray. I used these special spacers to space off the windage tray to clear the crank and rods. These spacers are much easier to install and better than trying to use washers for spacing. Mare sure you have adequate clearance from the main cap studs, crank and rods for the windage tray, and make sure the tray isn't contacting the oil pan. Space the crank scraper to a minimum .040 from the rotating assembly. Rotate the engine and verify
clearance.

https://butlerperformance.com/i-2445...windage%2Btray

https://butlerperformance.com/i-2459...pp-tp-wts.html

https://butlerperformance.com/i-2445...tegory:1396718
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  #120  
Old 06-03-2024, 06:56 PM
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That front counter weight looks massive!Tom

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