[70ra455]

Ooops .. thanks for the correction Baron.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The flat black when used on the scoops and spoiler (most exposed portion of vehicle) would have held up no longer than 2-4 years of normal daily driving and uncovered parking.

Jason might find they have been resprayed in the gloss. OR we might fing that Canada
did theirs in gloss ! Who knows....

Previously been my understanding that the cowl codes were for items that existed from the firewwall - rearward.

But is it possible the WT1 was for FRONT spoiler mounting ? Since D80 would have the rear spoiler mounting accounted for ? Anyone ?

CDN2+2 - can we put you on the spot and ask if you have VIN reference for those fifteen 71's ? Might help Judge273 know more about his 71.

[gtoric]

Originally Posted by Lloyd-TX

Eric White, possibly?

Does anyone here have an "in" with Eric, or even Fred Simmonds?

I have the Final '70 and '71 Production listings for the factory installed options and accessories. The 1971 document states that 15 (4.0%) WT7 604 --Flat Black Air Foil & Black Judge Stripes--Lemans 4200 with Judge Option were built. That same document lists the production numbers for the previous production year, and WT7 was not a listed option for 1970. I don't know where the 51 figure for the 1970 Judge WT7 option came from. I can find no reference to that option being offered for 1970. The 1970 Factory Installed Options and Accessories document does not list WT7 either. This document was dated August 13, 1970, presumably after the last 1970 unit was assembled. By the way, the 1971 document was dated August 23,1971. I'd like to know where the 51 1970 WT7 figure came from.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I don't know either Eric. There are some other crunched production numbers that we have no way of cross referencing either.

I have to think that FS had access to more data types during his research than what went to PHS. Like possibly Billing History Cards for 1970 in addition to the Dealer Invoices. 604 would show in box 60 (4).

Jason : when you speak with GM Canada again. Please ask them if they will specify amount of 70 Judges BUILT in Canada.

I've heard two numbers claimed. One number is in the 200+ range. One is in the 400+ range. Some say the 200+ number is actual Canadian production BUILT - with the 400+ number being total SOLD in Canada (combination of US builts and Canadian builts SOLD in Canada).

There are examples of Canadian built being sold new in USA I seem to recall. And USA built examples sold new in Canada.

[Lloyd-TX]

Originally Posted by gtoric

I have the Final '70 and '71 Production listings for the factory installed options and accessories. The 1971 document states that 15 (4.0%) WT7 604 --Flat Black Air Foil & Black Judge Stripes--Lemans 4200 with Judge Option were built. That same document lists the production numbers for the previous production year, and WT7 was not a listed option for 1970. I don't know where the 51 figure for the 1970 Judge WT7 option came from. I can find no reference to that option being offered for 1970. The 1970 Factory Installed Options and Accessories document does not list WT7 either. This document was dated August 13, 1970, presumably after the last 1970 unit was assembled. By the way, the 1971 document was dated August 23,1971. I'd like to know where the 51 1970 WT7 figure came from.

Any chance you could send me those '70 and '71 docs?

I'd sure like to have those to go along with my '72 doc.
Edit: I just checked my '72 document. Though it lists both the '71 and '72 numbers, it ONLY lists the option codes which apply to the '72 model year. The WT7 (and WT1 for that matter) do not appear at all on my document.

TIA.

[Kenth]

BVZ: "Like possibly Billing History Cards for 1970 in addition to the Dealer Invoices. 604 would show in box 60 (4)."

This shows:
Special equipment.
UPC; A74. Seats, H.D. Front & Rear---3327-69 only.

I guess 1970 WT7 was a dealer installed option, little strange though that 51 customers made a special non-factory order for an Arlington assembled 1970 JUDGE´s (if that rumour holds water), while in 1971 when it was a factory installed option only 15 customers ordered it?

This is the only factory notes i´ve found (so far) on 1970 WT7:

[Judge273]

I wonder why Pontiac would have a "special" option on a White Judge with black spoiler and not charge some extra money to have a "special" option. It had to take extra time on the line? Unless they were all built at same time at the same plant?

gtoric: 15 WT7 were built in 71 confirmed by factory in August '71 is very interesting. How much more do they know about those 15 WT7 cars?

Nobody has documentation on any of these cars?

[CDN2PLS2]

I only have docs on the two '71 WT7z so far. The first one has Sienna and a 3SPD!HoodTach and AM/FM. The second has Black ,TH400,and Loaded,also with a HoodTach.Not sure if I have any docs on '70 WT7z,I don't think so.

[JasonD]

I talked to GM Canada's Vintage Vehicle Service today and ordered the papers on my 70 Judge. They said the turnaround time is 3 weeks right now.

I'll let you guys know what I come up with in regards to the WT7 option and whatever else I get.

[CDN2PLS2]

George told me the same thing last month,I had it in just over a week,maybe you'll get lucky.

[JasonD]

Originally Posted by CDN2PLS2

George told me the same thing last month,I had it in just over a week,maybe you'll get lucky.

Yes.....George was who I talked to. He seems like a really nice guy.

Crossing my fingers!

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Kenth

BVZ: "Like possibly Billing History Cards for 1970 in addition to the Dealer Invoices. 604 would show in box 60 (4)."

This shows:
Special equipment.
UPC; A74. Seats, H.D. Front & Rear---3327-69 only.

Good eyes Kenth. Are you referencing a 1970 Pontiac Mich Building Order sheet ?
I have one that is very readable for reference use too.

I don't think those sheets are using the same protocol as a Billing History Card would. Take note of option 602, we all know that is for HD Air Inlet (Ram Air) for 1970 (like on a 455 GTO). That sheet lists 602 as something about the Roof and dual exhaust ??

Most of the Pontiac Building Order sheets I have, all have 601 designated in box 60. That is for police speedometer ?? The 70 455 R/A Build Order sheet I have for a Pontiac built GTO lists 601 in box 60, but nothing about 602. Also have PHS for that same Car.

I've got Ram3 and Ram4 Judge buildsheets from Pontiac Mich and they all have 601 in box 60, too. Did all GTO's get a police speedometer ?

This is ODD stuff I had never noticed before. I'll post up some documents when I get back home later this evening. I don't have any WT7 buildsheets on this comp. Just one Arlington Judge WT1. Arlington-Baltimore-Fremont buildsheets list all the codes at bottom of sheet - like T42 and WT1 etc... Pontiac Mich sheets don't. I don't have any Atlanta-Framingham-Oshawa buildsheets for 1970 on this computer.

I know we aren't expecting any WT7's from Pontiac Mich, but this is ODD data. In fact - I don't even see how to document the 1970 WT1/332 Judge option on a Pontiac Mich buildsheet.

The block code, and RA in the "Air Cleaner" box is as far as we can go, it looks to me.

[yak]

[QUOTE=

Jason : when you speak with GM Canada again. Please ask them if they will specify amount of 70 Judges BUILT in Canada.

I've heard two numbers claimed. One number is in the 200+ range. One is in the 400+ range. Some say the 200+ number is actual Canadian production BUILT - with the 400+ number being total SOLD in Canada (combination of US builts and Canadian builts SOLD in Canada).

There are examples of Canadian built being sold new in USA I seem to recall. And USA built examples sold new in Canada.[/QUOTE]


on my gm of canada phs it says it's one of 442 1970 wt1 judge equipped gtos sold in canada

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by yak

on my gm of canada phs it says it's one of 442 1970 wt1 judge equipped gtos sold in canada

Thank you, Yak. That is the phrase I'm questioning.

PMD says Oshawa "BUILT" two hundred and some Judges in 1970.
Others say NO - it's 442 "BUILT". However the statement leans towards describing only the amount "SOLD" - when I read it.

No RamIV's built in Canada. But I'm sure some knowledgable Canadians ordered IV Judges. They would have to come from USA. And even some RamIII Judges were probably exported to Canada from USA, too.

I'm going with what PMD-Worldwide says. But would like to get a further defined statement from GM-Canada, if possible.

[robz]

Originally Posted by yak

on my gm of canada phs it says it's one of 442 1970 wt1 judge equipped gtos sold in canada

Was Canada maybe limited to building RAIII '70 Judges only? Not sure why they would import any '70 Judges from US to Canada otherwise(then again, GM did alot of strange things back then so maybe not surprising)...

[Kenth]

BVZ, i don´t think Pontiac used the 1969 style Car Building Order for 1970, at least i have never seen that, and the option codes wouldn´t be correct, as you´ve noticed.

On the 1970 Customer Order Sheet col. 601 is UPC T42 Hood Air Inlet and col. 602 is the V.O.E Performance Dual Exhaust.

On the Special Equipment Order form you can find col. 604 UPC A74 H.D. Seats.

[CDN2PLS2]

Those two cars were built five vins apart,so maybe they were built in a batch.

[Judge273]

Mark,

Where were they built? When? Maybe there is some logic. Can't shows us the goods?

[CDN2PLS2]

Doesn't show build date, but both shipped from Pontiac in January.One sold in Calgary,Zone other in Montreal Zone.

[RAM AIR 1967]

My 1970 Judge Ram Air IV is from the Baltimor plant in Polar White and Box #60 is blank. In the color box #44 has 10 10 XX.