[lust4speed]

Here's my list of 10 using Tim's failure chart list :

1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1

When break-in is done by the book using Valvoline Racing VR1 along with a pint of GM EOS, and the lifter shows signs of wear immediately after break-in, there is a metallurgy problem. We haven't had a failure since we started ordering custom grinds that Comp grinds in-house. That, and staying far away from white-box lifters.

[Tim Corcoran]

The vast majority of aftermarket flat tappet lifters made today come from off shore mostly China. The only flat tappet lifters I trust are the Hy-Lift Johnson lifters. They are made in the USA with US made materials. Hy-Lift Johnson is owned by Topline Automotive but the Hy-Lift Johnson lifters have been made in the same plant in Muskegon Michigan for many years.

Comp was buying Hy-Lift Johnson for some of their lifters and selling them under the comp name but about a year ago went to another supplier for lifters.

Rhodes lifters are actually Hy-Lift Johnson lifters. Rhoads buys their lifters from Hy-Lift Johnson and modifies the lifter to increase the leak down rate then sells them under their Rhoads name. This may be the reason that Rhoads has had such a good reputation for their variable duration lifters.

Hy-Lift Johnson offers a stock replacement and the R-Series hydraulic lifters. They also have solid flat tappet lifters, standard and one with a .015 EDM hole in the face of the lifter for increased oiling. They don't sell Chevy lifters and market them for Pontiac. Their Pontiac lifters have the oil band in the correct location for Pontiac.

There is no guarantee you will never have a fat tappet cam/lifter failure but no matter what cam you buy get the best lifter available, and I believe that is a Hy-Lift Johnson lifter.

[Don 79 TA]

be-careful with oils
some of the "additives" are not good and you can get zinc clash
when you start with aggressive profiles, you run the risk more, and rollers are not immune to it, just ask Anthony at LGmotorsports
since they've started using Driven oils, they have less failures
RP and Driven also recommend not adding additives to their enriched oils, clash can result

many good points here in this thread
even when the XE types of cams were first released, people were having lobes wipe out in time, kindda not worth the risk
sure you can pay for nitrating, cam break ins, X lifter gadget of the month, etc... but why...
while it is cheaper up front, why take the risk of it causing further possible damage/contamination to your motor, after a swap or two... you're at a roller cost

but i guess each case is unique and so is each build

just make sure some good break in assy lube is applied, give it a good prime, get it up and running as fast as possible (this can be an issue on first fire ups), and as well as long term storage

[leeklm]

"while it is cheaper up front, why take the risk of it causing further possible damage/contamination to your motor, after a swap or two... you're at a roller cost "

Some of us learn that the hard way...

[Nitebird]

Originally Posted by Don 79 TA

be-careful with oils
some of the "additives" are not good and you can get zinc clash
when you start with aggressive profiles, you run the risk more, and rollers are not immune to it, just ask Anthony at LGmotorsports
since they've started using Driven oils, they have less failures
RP and Driven also recommend not adding additives to their enriched oils, clash can result

many good points here in this thread
even when the XE types of cams were first released, people were having lobes wipe out in time, kindda not worth the risk
sure you can pay for nitrating, cam break ins, X lifter gadget of the month, etc... but why...
while it is cheaper up front, why take the risk of it causing further possible damage/contamination to your motor, after a swap or two... you're at a roller cost

but i guess each case is unique and so is each build

just make sure some good break in assy lube is applied, give it a good prime, get it up and running as fast as possible (this can be an issue on first fire ups), and as well as long term storage

I see alot of guys posting problems with their roller cam systems...how can that be accounted for if that system is so much better though?

[PONTIAC DUDE]

No problems with flat tappets I personally break in.
No problems with hyd rollers " " .

I use Comp Cams.
I use Johnson lifters.
I use 4 oz. of my ZDDP additive for break-in.
I use cheap Autozone HD 30 oil for break-in.

Immediate fire up is essential, cranking on and engine and not firing immediately wipes out cams. 2500 rpm for 45 minutes min is essential.
Extensive idle time with aggressive ramps & big springs wipes out camshafts

I tell my customers to use Valvoline VR-1 oil with the additive.

[72LuxuryLeMansLa.]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

2500 rpm for 45 minutes min is essential.

That is twice the time I have ever seen recommended for break-in! How long have you done this? Did you learn to go this long because of your own experience or did someone recommend it?

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

Here's my list of 10 using Tim's failure chart list :

1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1

When break-in is done by the book using Valvoline Racing VR1 along with a pint of GM EOS, and the lifter shows signs of wear immediately after break-in, there is a metallurgy problem. We haven't had a failure since we started ordering custom grinds that Comp grinds in-house. That, and staying far away from white-box lifters.

This is my personal opinion as well, think the oil factor is over-emphazied, as is the spring pressures.

I've done many cam swaps back in the day, never had a problem. And those were failry aggressive lobes/profiles I used, matching springs, so that rules out the springs (in my opinion).

Used syn oils too before, for many many hard miles, never had a problem. Used 15-40 and VR-1 both with additives, and had issues in a short period of time, both XE grinds. Proper break-ins too. Had one prior failure, that too was an XE grind. Rules out oils (in my opinion/experience)

I honestly feel in my cases it was a rash of poor cores that were used. The one Pontiac issue I had was like 8-10 years ago, the following were 2 Olds grinds recently, those all were off the shelf grinds. Think the Olds grinds sat on the shelf for a long time, came from the same core batches the one Pontiac grind I had fail. All were more towards the moderate performance levels when it comes to grinds, less popular ones.

Problems with roller lifters, be it hyd or mech, most boil down to debris or poor maintenance. Sad but true. Or something else was wrong, during assembly or mis-match of parts. Crazy how some cut corners due to cost and think it's 'right' or 'can get away with it'.

.

[lust4speed]

A few years ago we ordered a very popular hydraulic flat tappet cam combo from mail order. First cam made it through break-in but failed right after, we returned it for an exchange of the same package, and that cam didn't make it through the break-in. Returned it and they sent us out a third package.

About this time we remembered the definition of insanity - doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Many of you are aware of the labor involved in chasing every last particle of debris from an engine, so you know the hours we had invested at this point. So we sent number three package back and added some money and went with a Crower HFT along with their lifters with the extra lobe oiling (hydraulic getting a groove down the side of the lifter instead of the neat hole in the bottom they use for a SFT). That setup has survived over 10,000 street miles so far and a hundred or so runs at the drags. Same engine, same oil, same prep - only the hardware was changed. If anything, that cam and lifters might have had a lesser chance of survival because of previous failures - but it survived nicely.

What dawned on us was that the mail order house receives large quantities of cams, and we were receiving a replacement from the same defective bulk shipment.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by 72LuxuryLeMansLa.

That is twice the time I have ever seen recommended for break-in! How long have you done this? Did you learn to go this long because of your own experience or did someone recommend it?

Been doing it this way for over 40 years. If it works I stick with it. I do bring it down to 2000 rpms if it's not a big cam after 15 minutes. Rollers 1500/1800 for 20/25 minutes for rings and oil saturation and still use the ZDDP.

Yes 30 to 45 minutes used to be the recommended break-in time back in the 70's. Like I said, most of the time the cause is cranking and cranking trying to get an engine started that seems to be the culprit, but most won't admit it.

[PunchT37]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

No problems with flat tappets I personally break in.
No problems with hyd rollers " " .

I use cheap HD 30 oil for break-in.
Immediate fire up is essential, cranking on and engine and not firing immediately wipes out cams. 2500 rpm for 45 minutes min is essential.
Extensive idle time with aggressive ramps & big springs wipes out camshafts

I tell my customers to use Valvoline VR-1 oil with the additive.

Yep. Me too. Never lost a cam. I was told that HD 30W oil belongs in lawn mowers. On my next cam, I will use straight 30W oil to do that one also. With a can of GM EOS.

I also don`t change the oil after my 30 min. breakin. Just the filter. I`ll keep that oil mixture in for 1500 miles or so then drain it and change to the oil you`ll run normally.

From Pontiacs, to Buicks, to mopars.

[71HOT/A]

I'll add another cause. Cam lobes centered under the lifter bores causes the lifters to not rotate creating way more loading and friction.

[Nitebird]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

Been doing it this way for over 40 years. If it works I stick with it. I do bring it down to 2000 rpms if it's not a big cam after 15 minutes. Rollers 1500/1800 for 20/25 minutes for rings and oil saturation and still use the ZDDP.

Yes 30 to 45 minutes used to be the recommended break-in time back in the 70's. Like I said, most of the time the cause is cranking and cranking trying to get an engine started that seems to be the culprit, but most won't admit it.

I also believe that this is the cause of most failures in reality also but it goes unmentioned most of the time.

[mchell]

Originally Posted by Nitebird

I was just wondering about this today. To those guys who have had a flat tappet solid or hydraulic cam go bad...were any of you guys running the new 'direct lube oiling" type lifters that have the small hole that makes it put oil directly onto the cam lobe?

I would think that having those special lifters would greatly reduce the chances of flat spotting a cam on break in.

not sure anyone actually answered your original question......

[tom s]

I lost a Crane RAIV clone.They replaced it but had to rebuild the engine because of all the metal that went thru it.Tom

[67GTO4SPEED]

Originally Posted by jonmachota78

So has anyone ever lost a RAIV (or clone) cam? Maybe we need a poll. Like have you flattened:
1) raiv
2) 068
3) 067
4) voodoo
5) xe
6) ... ... ... ... etc

This would actually be a good idea.

[grivera]

I am paranoid when it comes to this type of thing and the XE-268 in my engine still makes me nervous. When I assembled the engine, I used the Crane Cams paste on the cam lobes/lifter bottoms. I left the inner valve springs out as recommended by CC, and used Brad Penn 30W break-in oil. HWYSTR455 and later STS helped me break in the cam. I ran the engine for 25 minutes between 1800-2500 rpm. I then installed the inner springs and ran it for another 15-20 mins at 1800-2500 rpm. Then, while the engine was still hot, I dumped the oil and changed the filter (Brad Penn 10-30 and a Napa Gold filter). I then drove it to seat the rings and my next oil change was at around 150 miles, again with Brad Penn. I have also verified that my lifters are rotating on the cam by watching the pushrods spin.

I only have about 1400-1600 miles on it now and so far so good, but I realize I'm not out of the woods, especially when I read these stories of lobes going flat after several thousand miles.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by PunchT37

Yep. Me too. Never lost a cam. I was told that HD 30W oil belongs in lawn mowers. On my next cam, I will use straight 30W oil to do that one also. With a can of GM EOS.

I also don`t change the oil after my 30 min. breakin. Just the filter. I`ll keep that oil mixture in for 1500 miles or so then drain it and change to the oil you`ll run normally.

From Pontiacs, to Buicks, to mopars.

If you use assembly lube, you may want to consider the oil change after break-in.

.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by 67GTO4SPEED

This would actually be a good idea.

I mis-spoke on my failures, 2 were XE grinds, 1 was a Crower:

1) Pontiac - XE-262
2) Olds - XE-262
3) Olds - Crower 56263 (220-227 @ .050)

Both the Olds failures were not actually full 'wipes', the were removed before that happened. But there was excessive wear on several lobes, and it wouldn't have been long before they failed.

Lifters were Comp and 2 sets of Crowers on the Olds, Comp on the Pontiac, no face oil holes.

.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

I also forgot to mention that I use strickly a moly paste. I save the liquid stuff they send with the cam for my bearings.

And I have never removed the inner springs either.