[b-man]

Originally Posted by tom s

Bart,I would say those II heads are WAY bigger than a IV head now.Tom

No doubt!

But the pure-stock RAII is quite a performer in its class as well, as we know from the performance of Jim Mino and Truman Fields.

[Wareagle]

Congrats Rick & Scott - Pontiac power

[Aaron Quinton]

Great accomplishment guys, well done!

[Cliff R]

When you get involved with Pure Stock and FAST it makes sense to pick the vehicle with the most advantages.

The 1968 RAII Firebird is one of those.

It is light, has good heads, intake, and excellent exhaust manifolds. This automatically puts you WAY ahead of something like a 1979 Firebird, which came with "D" port heads, much heavier, and crappy log exhaust manifolds.

It's more about the laws of physics here than anything else. Power vs weight, the most power in the lightest chassis will always run the best numbers......Cliff

[wovenweb]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

When you get involved with Pure Stock and FAST it makes sense to pick the vehicle with the most advantages.

The 1968 RAII Firebird is one of those.

It is light, has good heads, intake, and excellent exhaust manifolds. This automatically puts you WAY ahead of something like a 1979 Firebird, which came with "D" port heads, much heavier, and crappy log exhaust manifolds.

It's more about the laws of physics here than anything else. Power vs weight, the most power in the lightest chassis will always run the best numbers......Cliff

I think what is surprising to most is why we aren't seeing this being done in a '69 bird with a Ram Air IV setup. Did the '69 pick up that much more weight? Or was it just easier to source '68 parts?

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by tom s

Its 511 CI with 15-1 CR,solid roller 264-264 and 720 lift.Makes 700 HP at 6500.Tom

744HP & 667 TQ!!!

Congratulations to Rick & Scott - they have scienced the **** out of this car, the drive-line, the rule book and their approach to racing. This car has been evolving since before it was built and they have a lot to be proud of.

The fact they compete against and beat 1000+hp Hemi's and aluminum big block Chevy's is just the icing on the cake!

[mgarblik]

I think if the same people involved chose to build a 69 Firebird, they would have similar results with a Ram Air IV. There may be some subtle differences but the rules allow enough modificatins to work around them. These cars have the stock appearance but are essentially Super Stock cars with lousy tires and a more stock appearing suspension. They make Super Stock power and every inch of the car under the acid dipped skin is full on race car. I just love watching these type cars but would like to see a better, safer tire rule. I assume everyone realizes these F.A.S.T. cars are a deep pocket operation and that is likely why a 69 Ram Air IV is not out there at least this year. I know some of my Super Stock friends have large investments in their engine programs. To be competitive in NHRA making similar power, a 50K engine is more the norm than the exception. Making nearly double showroom power and looking stock takes lots of smart decisions, tremendous effort and the necessary funds. These guys make us proud.

[Tom Vaught]

They have been campaigning that car/engine for several years now and it is great that they have "raised the bar" for Pontiac engines and cast iron parts to the heights that they have.

Truly an accomplishment!

Tom V.

[Gary H]

Originally Posted by wovenweb

I think what is surprising to most is why we aren't seeing this being done in a '69 bird with a Ram Air IV setup. Did the '69 pick up that much more weight? Or was it just easier to source '68 parts?

My understanding is there are several reasons why the RA II are prefered over the RA IV. The RA IV cars had a inlet "screen" sitting over the carb on the factory ram air setup. The screen is restrictive and results in poorer air flow through the carb compared to the 68' RA II ram air cleaner factory system. Understand, these cars MUST run the correct factory install air inlet systems.
Secondly, the 69' Firebird is heavier than a 68'. It's all about power to weight ratio

[Cliff R]

Correct, 69's and considerably heavier than 68's with the same options, but a FAST Class project could quickly make them closer in weight with some effort.

If you look at the cars in FAST that run the best numbers, they are always relatively light vehicles with very good engines in them. This includes big block Corvette's, Hemi cars, Torino/Mustangs with 429SCJ or 428 engine options, etc.

Here is a link to some of the cars showing the racer profiles:

http://www.fastraces.org/members/fas...nu-items/ghp28

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

Correct, 69's and considerably heavier than 68's with the same options, but a FAST Class project could quickly make them closer in weight with some effort.

If you look at the cars in FAST that run the best numbers, they are always relatively light vehicles with very good engines in them. This includes big block Corvette's, Hemi cars, Torino/Mustangs with 429SCJ or 428 engine options, etc.

Here is a link to some of the cars showing the racer profiles:

http://www.fastraces.org/members/fas...nu-items/ghp28

I recall comparing ship weights from my 68's phs documents to Debs 69. Both convertibles... dont have my 68 docs anymore to show numbers(went with car 12 yrs ago). Debs car was only slightly heavier.

But... Mine had the t400 - hers the t350, mine had power top - hers is manual, mine had power brakes - hers doesnt, mine had remote mirror- hers doesnt, both had power steering but hers came with a cooler on the variable ratio pwr steering. If mine had been optioned like hers it probably would have been 75-85 lbs lighter.

The 67-68's might also have slightly less frontal area but at this level I dont think you could see a difference at the track.

The 69 seems to have slightly more rear overhang which would seem an advantage but the 69's front has alot more pieces to it so likely negates any rear advantage.

[goatless]

Pat "Air" Wendling ran a RAIV '69 back years ago when his 11 second runs put him in the top ranks of FAST. That car was featured in HPP and they detailed all of the "tricks" he had done at the time. That car was low budget compared to this '68.

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/pon-0...upgrades-mods/

[goatless]

For those that haven't seen it before- this is what a 9 second Pontiac motor looks like. Note the 3/8" fuel line and cast long branch manifolds.

[rustedgoat]

That's just crazy. I've seen this car and his pure stock car. The attention to detail on both the cars is incredible. Big thumbs up to all the people involved with this project.

[Ron Landis]

but not surprising...congrats, guys!!! I too have seen both cars in action and they were both incredible...even then!

[Half-Inch Stud]

Someone ought to sell these log manifolds with the exact mods that ran 9.90's. I'd buy a set.

[Tom Vaught]

What ever happened to these early Firebird race guys? Roy and Mike McKinney

They were fast like like Rick and Scott in their day. Rick and Scott's stuff is very impressive
considering the rules.

Tom V.

[goatless]

A shot of the Tiemann/Mahoney 'Bird from last weekend.

[Garry Sr]

If I showed you guys a picture of my Formula right now you'd laugh your asses off. The trans fluid is now seeping way beyond the underbody of the car.

[Jim Mino]

CONGRATULATIONS to Rick Mahoney & Scott Tiemann for their amazing 9.99 ET at 136.80 MPH pass with their F.A.S.T. (Factory Appearing Stock Tire) 1968 Pontiac Ram Air II Firebird at Maryland International Raceway this past weekend!!!

This was with cast iron RA II heads, intake and exhaust manifolds, a tiny Q-jet 4BBL carb and a full closed exhaust system with a crossflow muffler! Not to mention...no traction bars and running on skinny 7-inch wide G70-14 reproduction rear tires!!!

Imagine...a 9 sec Et at 137 MPH with NO aftermarket aluminum heads, aluminum intake, big Holly carb, tuned exhaust headers with open exhaust, fancy 4-link traction bars and huge 12 inch wide slicks...to put this amazing feat into perspective!