[Va68goat]

I have Crowers installed now (1.65)

[JSPONT]

When putting the motor back together, over tightened valves can do damage. I agree with Paul, the engine was running smooth in the 1st video's, Just must have been making contact with the windage tray. If those push rods were bent you would have known after the dyno pull.

[Formulas]

If its not a camera trick you have a wide variation of set screw heights on your poly locks which leads a person to believe valve adjustment isnt right

Or you have bent pushrods in the thing still?

.

[Va68goat]

JSPONT,

There were two distinct noises coming from the motor when it was 1st started. There was a knocking noise and a ticking noise that could be heard from outside the car, inside the car and underneath the car (windage tray). The pushrods were not inspected after the dyne pull. The 1st time the pushrods were inspected was yesterday. The ticking noise was always present. The motor has less than 100 miles.

For now, I think Paul's idea is great. Lets let Paul find the source and go from there. I trust Paul 100% and I'm sure he will identify and fix the problem.

[TedRamAirII]

Originally Posted by Formulas

If its not a camera trick you have a wide variation of set screw heights on your poly locks which leads a person to believe valve adjustment isnt right

Or you have bent pushrods in the thing still?

.

Some of those set screws are BURIED! while others are at the top! I'm surprised the pushrods were not inspected when the rockers were replaced.

[Va68goat]

I don't know enough about cars to inspect anything. I had a few guys look at it before and after the rockers were replaced and adjusted, nobody caught that. I'm confident when Paul takes a look at it again, all will be good!

[chiphead]

Typically a bent pushrod look like a mangled soda straw. Really bent.

And I agree that if all those poly locks are all the same type and are tight in that last picture, something is wrong. The inner lock portion should be pretty consistent across all the poly locks. The Crower rockers have a little recessed area in the trunnion on one side for the poly lock.. Maybe a couple of the trunnions are flipped upside down?

different rocker arms can sometimes require different pushrods. It this was my motor, I would pull the intake and Valley Pan, and verify the condition of the lifters, cam, preload and geometry.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by chiphead

Typically a bent pushrod look like a mangled soda straw. Really bent.

And I agree that if all those poly locks are all the same type and are tight in that last picture, something is wrong. The inner lock portion should be pretty consistent across all the poly locks. The Crower rockers have a little recessed area in the trunnion on one side for the poly lock.. Maybe a couple of the trunnions are flipped upside down?

different rocker arms can sometimes require different pushrods. It this was my motor, I would pull the intake and Valley Pan, and verify the condition of the lifters, cam, preload and geometry.

It would be a good idea to check those trunions and make sure some aren't upside down. That would account for the inconsistent set screw height, possibly some noise.

[Pronto Poncho]

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

Some of those set screws are BURIED! while others are at the top! I'm surprised the pushrods were not inspected when the rockers were replaced.

As it turns out I don’t believe the rocker arms were ever a problem. They were replaced as an attempted to address the problem. I can’t help but worry if something is going on with the geometry of the valve train. As much as I hate the thought of the extra work it may be a good idea to go ahead take off the intake and valley pan and take a look at those lifters.

One question keeps going over in my mind. If Paul has done a number of these engine builds and all have been done using the same combination of parts with no problems what was different that would cause this problem? The Valley pan was a simple mistake that could be made by anyone of us. But here is the big question. If all the same parts were used that were used on an all these other successful builds. Then it can only be one of two things, a component failure or error made during the build. The hard part now is finding out which it is.

[gtofreek]

Here's a pic of the poly-lock position when I put it together. All were even and about 1-2 threads sticking up.

[chiphead]

Originally Posted by Pronto Poncho

As it turns out I don’t believe the rocker arms were ever a problem. They were replaced as an attempted to address the problem. I can’t help but worry if something is going on with the geometry of the valve train. As much as I hate the thought of the extra work it may be a good idea to go ahead take off the intake and valley pan and take a look at those lifters.

Snip......

Agreed. The rocker arm replacement didn't address the original issue, and adds additional concerns that need to be addressed. Don't get me wrong The crowers are good parts, but they require the correct pushrod, polylok, etc to function properly. Performance engines are complex Custom Engineered systems, one shouldn't just swap parts without verifying things. Often its fine to replace like for like parts, but 30% of the time it'll bite you in the azz unless you do the deep dive on fitment...

[Pronto Poncho]

Originally Posted by chiphead

Agreed. The rocker arm replacement didn't address the original issue, and adds additional concerns that need to be addressed. Don't get me wrong The crowers are good parts, but they require the correct pushrod, polylok, etc to function properly. Performance engines are complex Custom Engineered systems, one shouldn't just swap parts without verifying things. Often its fine to replace like for like parts, but 30% of the time it'll bite you in the azz unless you do the deep dive on fitment...

I agree with your concerns . Paul was involved in picking out the new rocker arms. I was not involved in the installation but remember some concerns being mentioned about pushrod length. There was no discussion about changing the pushrods to match the new rocker arms from Paul’s side so I guess everyone assumed that it was a good match. I can’t help but feel we are getting close to identifying this problem. The best thing would be if PAUL could get his hands on the motor. But that’s no easy request

[HWYSTR455]

Changing rockers isn't going to change the pushrod length requirement by much, if at all. It's not like we are switching to a Ford rocker or something.

If the fulcrum/trunion is upside down, the lock won't go on the stud. The locks came with the rockers.

I checked the rocker adjustments twice, went rocker by rocker, and 2 people checked it after me. Only thing I can think of there is that maybe the lifters weren't pumped up or were/are collapsed. I don't think the pushrods are that bent to make that much of a difference, but I haven't seen the pushrods in person.

One thing I did notice is that in Paul's pic with the covers off, there are no witness marks on the rockers, so that pretty much removes the thought of the witness marks on the rockers being from a wrench. I never thought that anyway, because who wouldn't use the boxed end for the lock?

I'm thinking loosen the rockers, order pushrods, install when they come in, and if the adjustment/locks show a difference, pull the intake and valley to check the lifters.

My suggestion, but it's not my call.

.

[grivera]

Joe -

In one of the pics you sent me yesterday, it looks like the roller tip has made a broad pattern on the valve tip, that is toward the inner edge. Since new pushrods are inevitable, make sure you measure for them before pulling the trigger.

[NeighborsComplaint]

The only ways to bend a pushrod are piston to valve contact (engine would be sick), tight guide plate notches or guide plate misalignment (pushrods would be scored), or collapsed lifter from over-adjusting. It's not a mystery.

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint

The only ways to bend a pushrod are piston to valve contact (engine would be sick), tight guide plate notches or guide plate misalignment (pushrods would be scored), or collapsed lifter from over-adjusting. It's not a mystery.

A valve guide not properly sized would also do it. Guide to stem clearance too tight, valve sticks, pushrod bends.

["QUICK-SILVER"]

I've watched every video several times.

Appears that the tap in question hasn't changed since day one.

Appears that it's a single tap..NOT 16 that would indicate some kind of geometry problem.

(FWIW) The original rockers have at least .060" clearance, at the closest point, between the poly hex and rocker body.

(FWIW) The original rockers have no shiny witness marks that would indicate bottoming out in the bottom rocker slot or against the poly lock.

If and BIG IF one of the lifters isn't holding pressure....Engine running, find it by pushing down on the rocker with the palm of your hand (at the pushrod). Then I'd run the poly down to see if you can quieten the tap noise.

If BIG IF it does have a bad/leaky lifter, I'd go as far as setting the lifter .010" or so (cold) "from bottomed out" and get some drive time in untill that lifter can be replaced.

If it is a bad/leaky lifter, replacement here would be ahelluva lot cheaper than shipping to and from AZ.

Oh so slightly bent pushrods are not causing this "SINGLE" tapping noise.

Need new eyes, new hands, or something to get this tap narrowed down.

Don't know who wants this figured out and fixed the most...Joe, Paul or me.

Clay

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Different helper needed here to straighten this mess out. If some of those trunions aren't flipped, flat side down, valve adjustment is in the danger zone.

Flipped trunions or rocker studs backed out??? Pushrods would have to be BENT BENT WARPED BAD to cause this.

[ponchjoe]

My suggestion is let Paul look at it like he suggested in post 156

[chiphead]

But how do you bring the mountain to Mohammed? Somebody would need to strap a GoPro to their forehead and let Paul drive him around like Ratatouille. I feel for Paul, he's trying to make it right via phone, and that's not easy.