#81  
Old 07-22-2023, 07:26 AM
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Yeah, the holley smart coils have their' own dwell settings.

Very good, glad it's running! And tuning is the fun part!


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  #82  
Old 07-24-2023, 10:22 AM
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I'd prefer not to post a price, but they are readily available when you contact them. Considering what you get, it's fair.

Since the wheel has to be mounted to the balancer, an SFI 18.1 balancer is included since there is machine work involved. A BOP composite gear is included on the cam sync, and both use hall effect sensors.

I specifically ordered the crank & cam setup, not the whole 'kit'. They sell complete SEFI setups, with different ECU options. How it can be broken down by items I'm not sure of, so it's best to reach out for pricing.

Not sure why manufacturers of balancers haven't gotten on board with incorporating flying magnets or other trigger mechanisms on balancers yet, someone/something should push them into doing so. Just makes sense.


.

First, thanks for the plug & your setup should be arriving today or so. Regarding the balancers, I've spoken to a few manufactures at PRI about doing such. Same answer from all is demand. While we this there's demand, its not 10,000 or a large enough amount for them to redesign tooling. If an individual/ group were to fund a 1 off run, that is a possibility.

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  #83  
Old 07-24-2023, 08:27 PM
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Okay so I still think the timing with the dual sync is suspect. I just don’t trust it. I’ve decided to add a crank trigger set-up. I’ll still use the dual sync for the cam sensor. At first I was just going to add a MSD or Moroso 4 magnet set-up with a Hall effect sensor but now I’m thinking a 12-1X set-up couldn’t hurt. It’s basically the same effort between the 4X and 12-1X.

Has anyone tackled this yet? Does MSD sell the Pontiac specific sensor bracket separately? I called Holley and it was a very frustrating conversation… the guy didn’t even know that MSD already made a Pontiac specific 4 magnet kit #8650. They just read a damn script.

I’m thinking of adapting their SBC 556-171 kit to my build. Thoughts?

https://www.holley.com/products/parts/556-171

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Last edited by R 70 Judge; 07-24-2023 at 08:35 PM.
  #84  
Old 07-25-2023, 06:58 AM
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Does you ATI balancer have the magnets in the outer shell? If not, you can just get the outer shell that has the magnets. They also make a reluctor wheel incorporated into the balance cover. I've always shied away from ATI balancers because they only make 3 bolt pulley balancers for Pontiac.

Innovator West is the only balancer I know that has the magnets built in (as pointed out previously) and they do sell a pickup bracket for Pontiacs. I have no experience with them so can't comment.

I believe I mentioned before that there is a late 70s timing cover with no timing marks on it, which would make it easier to mount a pickup bracket.

I've read a number of posts by the Holley EFI forums admin that state there's not much benefit of using anything more than a 4x wheel, just to throw that out there.

A good way to tell if there's an issue with the current crank sensor is to toss a timing light on it and enable static timing. If the timing reading is jumping around, then you know you have an issue.

The problems with the dual sync show up as either crank or cam sensor inconsistent readings, or they don't read/work at all. They are also failure prone. If you are concerned about it, then just replace the distributor entirely. If you have a crank sensor setup already, and are doing DIS/CNP etc, just get a block off type cam sensor and be done with it.

My issue is I don't care for the look of mounting 8 coils, and that's the only reason I haven't gone DIS/CNP. I will probably use a pro billet for a cam signal, and to distribute spark via conventional rotor/cap setup.


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1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2
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1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car
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  #85  
Old 07-25-2023, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by HWYSTR455 View Post
Does you ATI balancer have the magnets in the outer shell? If not, you can just get the outer shell that has the magnets. They also make a reluctor wheel incorporated into the balance cover. I've always shied away from ATI balancers because they only make 3 bolt pulley balancers for Pontiac.

Innovator West is the only balancer I know that has the magnets built in (as pointed out previously) and they do sell a pickup bracket for Pontiacs. I have no experience with them so can't comment.

I believe I mentioned before that there is a late 70s timing cover with no timing marks on it, which would make it easier to mount a pickup bracket.

I've read a number of posts by the Holley EFI forums admin that state there's not much benefit of using anything more than a 4x wheel, just to throw that out there.

A good way to tell if there's an issue with the current crank sensor is to toss a timing light on it and enable static timing. If the timing reading is jumping around, then you know you have an issue.

The problems with the dual sync show up as either crank or cam sensor inconsistent readings, or they don't read/work at all. They are also failure prone. If you are concerned about it, then just replace the distributor entirely. If you have a crank sensor setup already, and are doing DIS/CNP etc, just get a block off type cam sensor and be done with it.

My issue is I don't care for the look of mounting 8 coils, and that's the only reason I haven't gone DIS/CNP. I will probably use a pro billet for a cam signal, and to distribute spark via conventional rotor/cap setup.


.
I appreciate all of the suggestions!

I donít have magnets in my shell. I contacted ATI regarding the 4X or 12X shell on Monday. They answered lots of questions and were very helpful. Replacing my shell with a shell with magnets is $300-$350íish depending on how many magnets you add. They can also service/rebuild it for $85. They said it would take two weeks total. I strongly considered this because none of the accessory pulleys would need to be adjusted since the shell with magnets is the same width as their standard balancer. This option wouldíve gotten pretty pricey with the other items Iíd still need added in.

I called Holley/MSD and they were zero help. The MSD 8650 is only available in a 4X and they do not sell the kit pieces individually. On the website you can switch out the 8650 4X kit magnetic sensor for a Hall effect sensor for $30 extraÖ they told me that was a glitch and it wasnít available in that configuration. https://www.holley.com/products/igni...its/parts/8650

I called Moroso and they donít make a Pontiac crank trigger kit. They also donít offer a Hall effect sensor in their kits. Their kits are nice and a lot cheaper than MSD. Plus they are black.

I ended up deciding on the Holley 556-171 7-INCH 12-1X CRANK TRIGGER KIT, SBC, HALL EFFECT kit as it was the most cost effective and had the biggest upside.
https://www.holley.com/products/parts/556-171

Having the extra resolution of a 12X vs a 4X canít hurt. The kit already comes with the Hall effect sensor. I think weíll be able to adapt the SBC kit without much trouble. Bonus points that it isnít red

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  #86  
Old 07-26-2023, 07:21 AM
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I'm curious to see how it looks mounted, post pics when done please!


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  #87  
Old 08-04-2023, 10:44 PM
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12X crank trigger is in and itís running amazing! It sounds great and revs super quick for a first/base tune (they used the 496 BCC base map for starters)

Please ignore how dirty it is and the missing spoilerÖ Iíll put it back on soon as it come back home

https://youtu.be/Wg44N5IXbso

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Last edited by R 70 Judge; 08-04-2023 at 11:35 PM.
  #88  
Old 08-08-2023, 12:51 AM
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Holley really needs to work on their quality control!

The brand new Hall effect sensor that came with my 12X kit is dead. It worked up until yesterday under very limited run time. The car was idling yesterday and then just quit and wouldn’t start again. This morning they switched it out for a MSD Hall effect sensor and it fired right up. Then they switched the Holley back in and bam… no starting again. The sensor is bad. It’s pretty disappointing to get a brand new dual sync that was dead on arrival and then a $600 crank trigger set-up with a faulty Hall effect sensor immediately after.

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  #89  
Old 08-20-2023, 09:54 PM
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Does anyone want to share their idle settings? Iím working on idle tuning with a large cam. Iíd like to see others starting points. Iím currently using the base 496 chebby stuff. It idles around 1200-1300rpm during warmup. Once itís warm it idles higher and higher. Itís not uncommon for it to start idling at 1700rpm.

Common sense tells me Iím getting too much air in the engine. Iím using a remote IAC. Itís GM screw in style sensor that goes into a Kinsler adapter piece.

Any suggestions are appreciated. This could lead to some good tuning discussion
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  #90  
Old 08-21-2023, 09:49 AM
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That looks good the way it is, but need to see the parked value.

Also make sure the throttle blade is closed enough too. The IAC is showing 0%, and generally you want to shoot for like 5-10%. Close the plate in like 1/2 or 1/4 increments to try to get that.

And of course, make sure the TPS Autoset has been performed properly and recently. Any manual changes to the throttle blade requires a TPS Autoset.

700 RPM might be a little low too for a 'large' cam. I'd probably shoot for around 825-850, or even a little more depending.


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  #91  
Old 08-21-2023, 09:54 AM
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Ok, now I remember which TB you're using.

To start out, I suggest just backing the screw out until it bottoms the plate in the throat, and give it like 3/4 of a turn. Do a TPS Autoset, cycle the key, and then look at what your IAC % is, dial it in from there.



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1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger
Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be
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  #92  
Old 03-27-2024, 11:07 AM
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Great install, Did you finally get it running well?

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

  #93  
Old 04-09-2024, 10:26 PM
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Great install, Did you finally get it running well?

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk
It actually runs great once itís started. After switching to E85 the cranking fuel needs some adjustment and I just havenít made the time to tackle it. It started just fine on race gas but the E85 is harder to fire. Part throttle and full throttle response is fantastic with only 25* of timing in it.

While mingling around at the Good Guys show this past weekend I found a tuner locally that has a hub dyno and Iím kicking around the idea of letting him tune it. Iím going to see how if he has an opening in early May.

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