[PontiacMatt72]

There are a few options, but I think a commonly used one is the Proforged 101-10016. Described as .5” “longer” (taller).

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/p.../gto/year/1970

I see SPC, Ridetech, and possibly others make an “extended length” ball joint as well.


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[1968GTO421]

Originally Posted by PontiacMatt72

There are a few options, but I think a commonly used one is the Proforged 101-10016. Described as .5” “longer” (taller).

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/p.../gto/year/1970

I see SPC, Ridetech, and possibly others make an “extended length” ball joint as well.


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Thank you Matt!

My only other question would be what would be the new alignment specs for the shop to use when aligning up the revised front end? Thanks!

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by 1968GTO421

Thank you Matt!

My only other question would be what would be the new alignment specs for the shop to use when aligning up the revised front end? Thanks!

You want to achieve as much positive caster as possible with your setup. On stock uppers you probably won't get more than 3* positive caster.

Specs would look something like this.

+3* Caster
-.5* Camber
1/16th" toe in

If your roads are fairly flat, don't worry about a road crown alignment. If there's a good bit of crown you may have to consider backing off on the driver caster number to make up for the crown.

If you go with a offset cross-shafts you may be able to achieve closer to 4* of positive caster with the stock control arms.

[rohrt]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

To piggy back on that, you also want the large wheels. The added hoop diameter starts putting suspension components of these cars inside the wheel, which gives you more clearance to run wider wheels and more rubber. Options for performance tires for 15" wheels are basically non-existent, except for drag race stuff.

If your goal is handling and all you ever want to run on these cars is a typical 235/55/15, there's no reason to spend thousands on suspension at all. Put a half inch tall ball joint in the stock upper control arm, add a sway bar and some decent shocks and call it good. The tire's limitation makes going any further than that a bad ROI. Once you get into 17" plus wheel sizing the tires you have available to you become worlds better. I know that not everyone likes the look of big wheels on these classics, but it really is a case of form following function.

Every option out there takes you down a rabbit hole where you start weighing your options while the price goes up$$$. Then you have to take a step back and rethink the whole thing when you see a full kit north of 6K.

If you want C5 brakes, 17/18" rims, and a certain level stance and corrected geometry. How many option do I have to get there?

For the brakes, do you go with spindles that accept C5 brakes or just user your stock spindle with a bracket conversion?
For the stance, do you keep it simple with drop springs or do you pay up for adjustable coil overs?
For the upper/lower A-arms you can spend many hours looking into if they have geometry correction. Some use tall BJ and some have added caster. Some don't have any at all. Lowers arms are the same way.
For the spindles, if you decide to go aftermarket do you go with a lowering spindle? I believe most are a tall spindles so you don't need the tall BJ.

Then in the end you don't know if its all going to play well together, depending on what route you took. You may end up with horrible bump steer, rims don't fit, tire rub or a horrible ride.

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by rohrt

Every option out there takes you down a rabbit hole where you start weighing your options while the price goes up$$$. Then you have to take a step back and rethink the whole thing when you see a full kit north of 6K.

If you want C5 brakes, 17/18" rims, and a certain level stance and corrected geometry. How many option do I have to get there?

For the brakes, do you go with spindles that accept C5 brakes or just user your stock spindle with a bracket conversion?
For the stance, do you keep it simple with drop springs or do you pay up for adjustable coil overs?
For the upper/lower A-arms you can spend many hours looking into if they have geometry correction. Some use tall BJ and some have added caster. Some don't have any at all. Lowers arms are the same way.
For the spindles, if you decide to go aftermarket do you go with a lowering spindle? I believe most are a tall spindles so you don't need the tall BJ.

Then in the end you don't know if its all going to play well together, depending on what route you took. You may end up with horrible bump steer, rims don't fit, tire rub or a horrible ride.

My advise is to be honest with yourself about what you want the car to do and how you're actually going to use it. What you end up doing looks a lot different for a weekend show car vs a competitive CAM-T auto-x car.

85-90% of people on this board will be thrilled with a set of tall ball joints, a good set of shocks, maybe an aftermarket sway bar, lowering springs and a modernized alignment.

[PontiacMatt72]

I finally bit the bullet and dropped the coin for the Speedtech AFX spindles and steering arms. I ordered back before Christmas, close to a month ago now. Called to place order.

As of today, I’ve still not received the spindles, and I can’t even get them to send me a simple RECEIPT, despite calling and asking for an electronic copy of the receipt for my transaction 3 SEPARATE TIMES, and verifying they have my email address correct.

Each time the guy says oh yea I’ll send it right over. Nope.

Each time I ask what the status is on my $1,900 order, and the explanation is that they ran out of the hubs, and had to order more from GM, but they haven’t received them yet and don’t know when they will.

On top of all this non-sense, I hear QA1 has purchased/acquired Speedtech, causing further concerns for me on if this deal is gonna fall thru and I’m gonna be lost in the shuffle.

I’m excited to get to try these things out if they ever show up?), but man this has been a frustrating process… can’t even get a simple RECEIPT.

I’ll call again Tuesday I guess. Sheesh


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[JLMounce]

Summit racing appears to have 6 sets in stock. I'd call them and if they can't confirm shipment on the phone, ask for a refund and buy from summit. If they refuse a refund, charge it back on your card.

From what I'm seeing online it does look like these things are currently in short supply.

[PontiacMatt72]

My spindles finally arrived yesterday. I’m happy.

I can say, every time I called they answered the phone and were helpful. Don’t know why I never was able to get any email receipt for my purchase - but, I have my parts so I’m satisfied.

Now to get the brakes and get these things installed.


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[HWYSTR455]

I did Powerstop rotors and think I got no-logo calipers from Kore3.

I would be curious to know where you source your stuff, maybe I missed some places.


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[PontiacMatt72]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Like I said, the knock-off tubular lower arms are fine, I run them in the 442, held them right next to a set of GWs and measured roughly without seeing any diff. Again, just change the ball joint.
.

Ordered a set of the “knock-off” tubular lower control arms, along with some proforged ball joints (uppers and lowers). Already have a set of used GW tubular upper control arms.

I assume the sway bar links that come on the “knock-off” lower arms are sufficient? They (sway bar end links) have some adjustability to them… any tips or tricks to getting that adjustment set correctly?

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[HWYSTR455]

When the car is on the ground, the ends of the sway bar should be parallel to the ground. That is what's considered a neutral setting and is the baseline.

If the car feels like it has a better turn-in going to the left or right, you shorten the opposite end link. But most people just leave it in the neutral setting.

You can use corner weights to help determine which side you might need to tighten/loosen, but it's to some degree a personal preference. Driver weight/load does play a part.



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[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by PontiacMatt72

Ordered a set of the “knock-off” tubular lower control arms, along with some proforged ball joints (uppers and lowers). Already have a set of used GW tubular upper control arms.

I assume the sway bar links that come on the “knock-off” lower arms are sufficient? They (sway bar end links) have some adjustability to them… any tips or tricks to getting that adjustment set correctly?

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The adjustable links that come on the arms don't pose any mechanical issues, but the heim joints used in them are typically quite loose and are noisy while you drive the car.

You may wish to use some spray lithium grease on the heims to help with this. Or get these from Global West which will be a better item.

[PontiacMatt72]

Finished installing all my upgraded front suspension components. GW upper control arms, eBay “knock-off” lower control arms, proforged upper and lower ball joints, Speedtech AFX spindle, speedtech AFX steering arm, new inner and outer tie rods, Kore3 “z51” big brake kit. Reusing the coil spring and bilstein shocks that I had on the car before this project began.

One note - with the speedtech steering arm came new aluminum tie-rod adjusting sleeves, which are visually longer than the original sleeves. After installing the new tie rod ends with the sleeves, it was apparent that the combo was too long, and would not allow for a proper alignment. The front tires were pointing outward, measuring over 1/2” off from front of the rotors to the rear with a tape measure. After speaking with Speedtech, they suggested trimming some of the extra threaded rod from the tie rod ends. So, I did. Trimmed approx 1/2” off both inners and both outers.

After reinstalling, it appears this solved the issue and will allow for enough adjustability for proper alignment. But strange I had to do that… seems they could/should shorten their tie rod adjusting sleeve they provide with the AFX steering arm.

Now to bleed the brakes and give it a test drive.


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[HWYSTR455]

Yeah that's odd, but my ends are global west ones and I saw no need to replace them.


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[HWYSTR455]

You will love the setup, and you will never go back.

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[PontiacMatt72]

Before and after photos…

*while I did change nearly everything in the front suspension, one thing I did not change was the coil springs. Unfortunately, I completely forgot to get a “before” measurement to compare the after. But, clearly the front sits lower.

[PontiacMatt72]

Other side…

[HWYSTR455]

Car looks good!

Yes, the AFX spindles do have about a 1" drop to them, but shouldn't cause any issues.

If you want, you can put a 1/2" spacer in the bottom of the control arms to regain that 1" drop.

Pirate Jack ones:

https://piratejack.net/1964-1972-che...-shim-spacers/

Can shop it, many have them.

There are also ones where you replace the isolator in the bottom with a taller one. Just remember the thickness of the spacer is @ half of what lift it provides.



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[vertigto]

Looks much better to me in the lower stance...congrats!