[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

Ok....Let's play a game. Since I have received so much help and input from the guys on the forum...let's have some fun! My motor arrived at Paul's shop today. I just ordered this 12 inch aluminum Pontiac sign on eBay. The first forum member to correctly guess what the problem was with the motor will receive this sign for free. I'll pay the shipping!

Because of this thread, I have met some good friends and I've learned a lot about cars. I can't tell you enough how great Jeff and Paul have been. I wouldn't hesitate to have Paul do another motor for me. He is a true professional.

Post your guess!

Seems DATAWAY should be receiving a package soon !

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by chiphead

The top bearing was still in good shape. Without a major rotor phasing error, the timing will be pretty steady. You would have to check it pretty closely to find it. Maybe the old 1 to 6 cyl timing check. Any engine with a lumpy cam is going to have some spark scatter when you check the timing.

Eventually the reluctor wheel would have contacted the pickup hard enough to damage the pickup coil or shear a roll pin in the shaft. If you were lucky, the dizzy would fail and the engine would refuse to run.

That's exactly what I was talking about, and it was already contacting it as witnessed in the photo, even with the upper bearing in perfect shape.

I've had this issue in the past, to the point that the rotor button actually makes contact with the cap and knocks the rotor button out of phase. Before the rotor button was bumped, it had erratic timing and was impossible to set correctly. I don't believe timing here was rock steady with a distributor that looked that bad.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by STEELCITYFIREBIRD

Seems DATAWAY should be receiving a package soon !

Don't think so, his guess of a bent oil pump shaft wasn't the issue. It was actually the distributor moving the shaft. My guess along with Dataway should have gotten the OP in the right area and the problem discovered.

Looks like we'll have to cut that sign in half and split between us

[dataway]

I'll offer up my half of the sign to whomever deserves the other half. My shop has no wall space left

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

tooski,

I'm sending the oil pump and distributor to Paul. I spoke to him today and he suggested that I do that. I trust Paul 100% and I know he wants this whole situation taken care of. I know he wants this motor right as much as I do. I can't tell you guys enough how great Paul has been. I know he's not use to having this happen to one of his motors but I still don't regret for one second going through him for the motor. He's a true professional and stands by his builds! I'll keep you guys updated.

Cut it up in 4 pieces:
.......Onward Thru The Fog!

[torqhead]

Not that I have any say, but if I had a vote I would recommend sending it to Paul, he more than deserves an award for his unwavering support through this challenge!

[dataway]

Originally Posted by torqhead

Not that I have any say, but if I had a vote I would recommend sending it to Paul, he more than deserves an award for his unwavering support through this challenge!

Yep.

[gtofreek]

I already have one, so I'll let you guys fight over it!

[gtospieg]

Put the sign up for a charity auction with the proceeds going to Va68goat. If it's anything like BarrettJackson it should go for HUGE money and then the winner of the auction can donate it back and auction off again....OK maybe not....glad the problem was found before there was an explosion.

[72LuxuryLeMansLa.]

You could just give it to me.....I knew exactly what the problem was but I didn't want to embarrass Paul or the other pretend experts, so I didn't post my opinion.

[Bentwheelbob]

Shoulda, woulda, coulda...

Paul deserves a big shout out for being a stand up guy, and Va68Goat deserves a reward for persistence. Now put the engine together, slap it in the car, and do a burn out.

Congrats!

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by Bentwheelbob

Shoulda, woulda, coulda...

Paul deserves a big shout out for being a stand up guy, and Va68Goat deserves a reward for persistence. Now put the engine together, slap it in the car, and do a burn out.

Congrats!

Thanks! I appreciate that.



I can't wait to see that burnout video!

[gtofreek]

I've been thinking about the windage tray thing. Now I question whether the rod bolts were actually hitting the windage tray once the engine was running. Even Hywaystar said he could not hear it hitting when turning the engine over. I shimmed the tray at the shop when I first built it. I shimmed it because it was obviously hitting the rod bolts when I just bolted the tray to the main caps. When it hit then, it would have left marks where it hit. That's why I shimmed it in the first place. After they shimmed it more, the noise was still there. But the witness marks where on the tray already because it was hitting when I first installed it. I think everyone just assumed because there were witness marks that it was still hitting, but those witness marks would not have gone away after I initially made them. I don't think it was ever hitting after the engine was running. The witness marks are so faint and minor, that I bet the shims I installed was enough to make it clear just fine. But at this point, that's all water under the bridge. Now I just need to get it back together so it can be enjoyed.

[Va68goat]

Just to let you guys know...MSD stood by their product. They repaired the distributor at no charge and got it back to Paul already. I think thats awesome that they did that. I sent Paul a new distributor gear from Butlers. Hopefully I'll be enjoying this car soon!!!

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

Now I just need to get it back together so it can be enjoyed.

Guessing the OP is having too much fun finally getting to drive it to post on here.

Clay

[Va68goat]

Well, apparently there was a lot more damage to the motor than just the distributor bushing. I don't think this is the place to discuss what is going on but I don't think I'll be getting this motor back anytime soon.

[HWYSTR455]

What kind of damage? The previous inspection above by Paul said everything was fine internally?

Paul, you found something after that?

.

[Va68goat]

I'll text you HWYSTR455. This is not a good situation here. I don't think I should post anything further until I find out how this is going to get resolved.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

I'll take pics of the rest of the engine tomorrow. Yesterday I was tired afterwards[it was past 5PM]and covered in oil during disassembly to take any pics. Good news is crank and everything else looks great. Piston skirts don't look like they've even been run except for a couple very light scratches that are barely even noticeable. Piston pins are free and smooth moving. I still need to disassemble piston pins so I can clean and re-lube before reassembly. I might still have that MSD box at work. I have one I keep instruction for timing curves and extra parts in. I wrote Joe's name on his box when it came to me, so I'll know if the one at work was his or not. If so, I'll look at the origin code in the UPC code to see if it originated from China. Maybe that will shed some light on this. I have used at least a dozen of these distributors in other Pontiac builds and have never had an issue with one. We have used countless MSD distributors on many other brand builds also without any issues what-so-ever. So I was shocked to see this in such a short amount of time. It just sucks that Joe has been without the use of his car for a year because of this. Who would have ever guessed this was the cause. I think the reason why it sounded like it was coming from the torque converter area was because the noise coming from the distributor cap was hitting the firewall and traveling down the tranny tunnel and coming out around the tranny. Very deceiving. It was also loud under the hood and everywhere else too, so sound really travels with these deals. Just glad it didn't cause any other damage to the engine.

Originally Posted by gtofreek

Also, the vast majority of the wear is directly across from the cam gear. Cam is not bent, nor is the wear on the dizzy gear uneven, as stated earlier. I check and straighten, if needed, every cam I install in an engine. You'd be surprised at how many cams are bent to a certain degree right out of the box. Most are .002"-.005" bent, but I have seen as bad as .025", which was unstraightenable, and sent back to manufacturer. I bet most builders never check a cam for straightness, and just assume it is straight. We check, straighten if needed, and polish every cam we use, whether we bought it or the customer did. Not very often are they perfectly straight.

Originally Posted by gtofreek

The bearings and crank had no scratches at all.

Originally Posted by gtofreek

Here's some pics of the pistons, crank, and bearings. These are typical of all the others.

Originally Posted by gtofreek

One more of a main bearing.

Originally Posted by gtofreek

I've been thinking about the windage tray thing. Now I question whether the rod bolts were actually hitting the windage tray once the engine was running. Even Hywaystar said he could not hear it hitting when turning the engine over. I shimmed the tray at the shop when I first built it. I shimmed it because it was obviously hitting the rod bolts when I just bolted the tray to the main caps. When it hit then, it would have left marks where it hit. That's why I shimmed it in the first place. After they shimmed it more, the noise was still there. But the witness marks where on the tray already because it was hitting when I first installed it. I think everyone just assumed because there were witness marks that it was still hitting, but those witness marks would not have gone away after I initially made them. I don't think it was ever hitting after the engine was running. The witness marks are so faint and minor, that I bet the shims I installed was enough to make it clear just fine. But at this point, that's all water under the bridge. Now I just need to get it back together so it can be enjoyed.

Originally Posted by Va68goat

Well, apparently there was a lot more damage to the motor than just the distributor bushing. I don't think this is the place to discuss what is going on but I don't think I'll be getting this motor back anytime soon.

WTF are you talking about?! - look at all of Paul's posts where he confirmed no collateral damage. Are you sure you aren't misinterpreting something?

[Va68goat]

I'll call you grivera. After the news I got yesterday, I've been just trying to get my head straight.