[HWYSTR455]

I heard that the Crane HYD roller lifters are US made, and don't have the 'noisy' issue. But they are considerably more expensive.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cr...w/make/pontiac

When I was looking for the Olds lifters, I seriously considered these, but just couldn't justify the cost. $840 a set is steep.


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[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by i82much

You mean if the base circle gets smaller?

Right. If lobe lift is a function of decreasing the base circle, what what lobe lifts do you start running into this issue?

The SD Performance OF grind for example is listed at .578/.582 gross lift with 1.5 ratio rockers. It's lobe lift on the exhaust would be .388

[gtofreek]

[QUOTE=JLMounce;5585765]Right. If lobe lift is a function of decreasing the base circle, what what lobe lifts do you start running into this issue?

The SD Performance OF grind for example is listed at .578/.582 gross lift with 1.5 ratio rockers. It's lobe lift on the exhaust would be .388[/QUOTE]

Which would be enough to be a problem. These cams I'm dealing with now have lobe lifts of .350"-.370".

[gtofreek]

Got ya covered!

I'm elongating the block oil hole on yours to reach the oil band of the lifter. This is the best fix, as the lifter mod can only go so high before it pokes out the top of the lifter bore, so on smaller base circles, you can't cut the notch high enough. With the block mod, base circle doesn't matter, as long as the oil band doesn't drop below the lifter bore. The engine I started this thread over, I can't do that since the engine is together and running.

Originally Posted by vidguy

Good job getting deep into this..

Hopefully my build will benefit from what you learn here..

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by i82much

i have the new comps on the OF cam. it did not take long for my top end to see oil the first time i primed the engine, and my lifters are not noisy. perhaps the ia2 galleys are in a different place?

on the other hand, it seems like you might be able to get enough oil in the lifter even if the band does not see the oil galley on the base circle. you still get oil in the way up and in the way down, the question is can you meter it so that is enough to keep the lifter from collapsing?


what kind of spring pressure are you running?

This is not the case. When the lifter is opening the valve, the oil is slowly bleeding out of it. When the lifter rests on the base circle, this is when it has to refill, but there is not enough volume getting between the lifter body, and the lifter bore to completely refill it before it takes another hit. This is why the oil band has to be exposed to the oil hole on the base circle. It's the only way it can get enough volume.

When you are just cranking the engine with the starter, it is turning over slow enough that the lifters fill, and are quiet when first started. But as it runs, it slowly bleeds the oil out of it, but can't refill it fast enough so they get noisier and noisier, until after a minute or two, they are really noisy. Shut it off, and crank it over again, and its' quite again for a minute or so.

[i82much]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

This is not the case. When the lifter is opening the valve, the oil is slowly bleeding out of it. When the lifter rests on the base circle, this is when it has to refill, but there is not enough volume getting between the lifter body, and the lifter bore to completely refill it before it takes another hit. This is why the oil band has to be exposed to the oil hole on the base circle. It's the only way it can get enough volume.

When you are just cranking the engine with the starter, it is turning over slow enough that the lifters fill, and are quiet when first started. But as it runs, it slowly bleeds the oil out of it, but can't refill it fast enough so they get noisier and noisier, until after a minute or two, they are really noisy. Shut it off, and crank it over again, and its' quite again for a minute or so.

Makes sense to me. Any idea why people like myself and tom s have new versions of the comp lifters that seem quiet?

[tempest1964]

Good question! Enquiring minds want to know.

[tom s]

I run 400 lobe lift with no problem also.We run 150 on the seats with 10-30 Mobil 1.Tom

[GOAT490]

subscribing for knowledge

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

What's important to note of is if the oil hole in the block will line up with the oil band in the lifter, when the lifter is on the base circle. I can't remember how Olds is, but Pontiac just has a 1/4" hole, closer to the top, than the bottom. Because of this, the band drops below the hole at base circle. This is the critical time the lifter needs to refill itself. If the Olds oil hole lines up with the oil band at base circle, you're golden!

Question Paul,
Why does everyone tout about Johnson lifters being the best to get if the oil band is in the wrong location for a Pontiac application. Or is it?
I've never heard that complaint before yet from the sound of this entire thread no one makes a correct Pontiac lifter.....

[wheneaglesfly]

I am sticking to Solid Lifters for my own GTOFREEK.
I Love setting Valvelash & The Wonderfull Mechanical Singer Sewing Machine Sound delivered.
Problem solved.

Used to be easy to get USA PONTIAC .

[gtofreek]

I would guess that your lifters have tighter fitting innards, or you have more lifter to lifter bore clearance, or both.

[gtofreek]

Hylift/Johnson are the best as far as internal clearances and all around dimensions are concerned. They still have the oil band in the wrong place as they use Chevy bodies also. No one wants to tool up to make a Pontiac specific hyd. roller lifter.

[HWYSTR455]

Paul, so you're specifically talking about HYD roller lifters, not HFT lifters, correct?

What's the actual height measurement for the 'proper' location of the oil band? I personally need a visual, even a scribbled drawing would work for me! Heh-heh!

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[Formulajones]

I'm guessing both hydraulic flat tappet and hydraulic roller.

Yes a measurement of the oil band would be great.

[gtofreek]

Just hyd. rollers. Hyd. flat tappets have been made forever for Pontiac, and Olds[same lifter]. It's the rollers that they don't want to tool up for to make special. Solid lifters don't matter since you don't have to keep it pumped up with oil.

[gtofreek]

I'll try to remember to get a pic of a Pontiac flat tappet, and a hyd. roller together so you can see the difference in the band height.

[i82much]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Paul, so you're specifically talking about HYD roller lifters, not HFT lifters, correct?

What's the actual height measurement for the 'proper' location of the oil band? I personally need a visual, even a scribbled drawing would work for me! Heh-heh!

.

http://www.jbp-pontiac.com/techDoc/PontLifters.pdf

[HWYSTR455]

That was helpful Steve, though would still like to see measurements. I would tack it on the garage wall, and use it any time I go to install lifters.

I would imagine there's a range too, like is the band always lined up with the oil hole while in operation?

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[i82much]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

That was helpful Steve, though would still like to see measurements. I would tack it on the garage wall, and use it any time I go to install lifters.

I would imagine there's a range too, like is the band always lined up with the oil hole while in operation?

.

Yeah I am still trying to figure out why my lifters aren't noisy! I wonder if the side clearance allows some people to get by and others have problems.