[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by BILTIT

Pretty sure its the same size. I can check when i receive the alternator, just waiting on some quotes.

EDIT: CS-144 Alternator is purchased and should be here in the next two days. I can take pics and measurements then.

From where?

[BILTIT]

I purchased it used ($90) from a local wreckers off a great website.

www.car-part.com

I wanted to make sure everything would fit and work, i can always rebuild it if it craps out on me.

[Socrates]

I picked up 2 CS144's from my local pick-a-part for $25 total. They were clearly new/rebuilt/recently installed, looking new and free spinning. They've lasted a long time. I picked up another one with both A/C and D/C output taps (for caddy heated seats) but it was DOA, sadly. I was going to run heated seats in my truck, useful for chilly winter months with the convertible top down

[BILTIT]

OOOO!, i didn't know they were available with taps! Any idea on specs for draw on the taps? I want to upgrade my 4x4 to a cs-144 and if the taps could handle it i could use it as a welder too.

[george kujanski]

Not really enuf output voltage to operate a welder, I think. The AC taps only serve to bypass the output diodes when running higher current to things like the seats.

Going back awhile a neighbor of mine had a big Lincoln that had a heated windshield, and he had two alternators on the engine, one of which provided the power for the windshield, probably at a higher voltage.

George

[Socrates]

Ditto what George said on the taps being pretty weak. I might still have it if you want it and wish to rebuild it, although rebuild kits for it cost 70% of what a whole new one runs for that particular model, oddly. I have an extra big F-word brand 3G alternator for my Scout modified as an on board welder, along with the CS144 used for normal charging duties. I feel safer having 2 alternators. In case I nuke the 3G unit with my welding skills (and I use the word skills loosely) the main CS144 will still get me home. I also converted the a/c compressor for on board air, which I though to be very cool. It makes airing up at the beach quite casual, and makes the air horns incredibly loud

[BILTIT]

Recieved my alternator, looks like the right one. The bolt pattern spread is about .5'' larger than the stock so i may need to change the front mount bracket.

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by Lloyd-TX

Can't answer your fitment questions, but watch out on the durability (or lack thereof) of CS130 alternators.

Prone to heat failures of the diodes, as well as undersized, weak bearings. If you DO decide to use one, try to find a rebuilder who makes the appropriate durability "updates" - oversized bearings, rear case with a heat sink and cooling fins, etc.

Heat transfer compound, packed in around the rear bearing crinkle spacer, does wonders for bearing failures.

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by Socrates

I picked up 2 CS144's from my local pick-a-part for $25 total.

What car did you look for?

[Socrates]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

What car did you look for?

Most of the big early 90's-up Caddy's (Eldorados, etc) have them, and a lot of the posh Buicks do, too. Can't recall seeing any on any other GM makes at all. The CS144 is quite large and distinctive, thus hard to miss. The more power options the car has, the more output the alternator will have. I think one of mine is ~120A, the other 140A. The alternators will (usually) have a sticker on the casing indicating their power output. If the sticker is missing a casing number can be used to determine the vehicle origin and the rated power output.

[BILTIT]

92-95 pontiac trans sport
93-96 chev caprice
93+? cadillac eldorado
93-97 LT1 F-bodies

105A, 120A, and 140A alt's were available on some of these, be sure you get the right one.

I think the 105A are CS-130's?

[ponjohn]

I think my 99 Burb has the cs144.

Good info:

http://www.extreme4wheelin.com/tech/...ators/tech.htm

[myckee]

Originally Posted by Socrates

....... Make sure that you keep the far superior original CS144 cooling fan in place and don't use the old school blade-type fan on it, or else your expensive new alternator will live a very short life.......

On the Monte Carlo forums, one user there recommends swapping the plastic fan on the cs144 to a steel fan. Apparently he had a fan explode while going down the track that ended up by tearing open his hood and fender wells.

I think when I get around to this mod, I will be installing a steel fan. Maybe it is less efficient, but depending on the application, some cs144 did come with them, and, I'd rather rebuild an alternator than have to replace a hood and wheel wells, not to mention having them painted etc.

[HWYSTR455]

I've been dancing with Alts for years, search on it and you will see how many I've cooked! Still keep a spare in the trunk (along with an electric impact to change pulleys). I've been using CS-130s lately, though really only because I have a rotation going with the auto parts store under warranty. V-belts do slip over 100 amps, and it's a fine line between how tight and trashing bearings. I usually replace the belt about every 5-10k miles, even if it looks good. They glaze, and slip to a point where it won't charge properly, no squeal, and hard to tell when you visually inspect. I added some car stereo capacitors to help make the diodes last longer, and it works. The one I have is for a 105a application, the other a 140a. Make sure your charge wire is up to par, as well as your battery cables. I swear by lead-acid batteries, and choose a deep cycle, largest that will fit in the location you're installing.

I'll be grabbing a CS-144 for the Cutlass this weekend, and may change my rotation! The 144s are the hot ticket.

.

[Socrates]

Originally Posted by myckee

On the Monte Carlo forums, one user there recommends swapping the plastic fan on the cs144 to a steel fan. Apparently he had a fan explode while going down the track that ended up by tearing open his hood and fender wells.

I think when I get around to this mod, I will be installing a steel fan. Maybe it is less efficient, but depending on the application, some cs144 did come with them, and, I'd rather rebuild an alternator than have to replace a hood and wheel wells, not to mention having them painted etc.

Ugggghhhhhh....You've gotta love the internet. There will always be someone, somewhere who swears on their mothers tombstone that they got away with doing something exceptionally stupid themselves to otherworldly great success, and then they get on a BB and suggest other people do the same inane thing...

Would anyone here call up GM/Delco and tell them how foolish they were to spend millions engineering and producing a super efficient modern alternator cooling fan when a 50yr old relic would have sufficed Not likely! I have never, ever heard of the composite fans just exploding, and I participate on many online forums and local clubs. Sounds like a total BS wives tale to me.

PS, please, by all means, if anyone could show us a factory CS144 with the ugly old school multi-blade metal fan on it from the factory, do so! I'm open to being proven wrong, though I'd wager you'll not find one, and if you do you'll find 18 million cars with the modern design to the one oddball you find with the poor old-school design in use. While searching, look for how many composite alternator fans actually explode vs. don't. Most all GMs for the past ~20 years have used the modern composite fan design. I can't recall ever hearing about common explosions, nor a recall or anything of this nature in the real world. Fantasy hick-engineering world, maybe. Real world, no. I'm sure one composite fan somewhere may well have exploded under some unique circumstances, just as one metal fan may have lost a blade or two as underhood shrapnel on equally rare occasions, though associating value to the extremely rare and isolated stories is pretty ludicrous in my mind, especially when it leads people jeopardize the function of a critical component in their cars which will leave a bunch of people stranded or calling AAA as a result...Sorry, this "one guy" story just totally pegged, overshot and exploded the fan on my BS meter this morning

[HWYSTR455]

Heh-heh! I left that one alone! I think he left out the 'fact' that some of those pieces flew into a crowd, killing hundreds! Let's get the animal rights gang involved and mention that pieces also took out a few geese from the flock flying overhead!

[Socrates]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Heh-heh! I left that one alone! I think he left out the 'fact' that some of those pieces flew into a crowd, killing hundreds! Let's get the animal rights gang involved and mention that pieces also took out a few geese from the flock flying overhead!

"Would somebody using composite alternator fans PLEASE think about the CHILDREN! And the Canadian Geese!" The horror!

[myckee]

Originally Posted by Socrates

Ugggghhhhhh....You've gotta love the internet. There will always be someone, somewhere who swears on their mothers tombstone that they got away with doing something exceptionally stupid themselves to otherworldly great success, and then they get on a BB and suggest other people do the same inane thing...

Would anyone here call up GM/Delco and tell them how foolish they were to spend millions engineering and producing a super efficient modern alternator cooling fan when a 50yr old relic would have sufficed Not likely! I have never, ever heard of the composite fans just exploding, and I participate on many online forums and local clubs. Sounds like a total BS wives tale to me.

PS, please, by all means, if anyone could show us a factory CS144 with the ugly old school multi-blade metal fan on it from the factory, do so! I'm open to being proven wrong, though I'd wager you'll not find one, and if you do you'll find 18 million cars with the modern design to the one oddball you find with the poor old-school design in use. While searching, look for how many composite alternator fans actually explode vs. don't. Most all GMs for the past ~20 years have used the modern composite fan design. I can't recall ever hearing about common explosions, nor a recall or anything of this nature in the real world. Fantasy hick-engineering world, maybe. Real world, no. I'm sure one composite fan somewhere may well have exploded under some unique circumstances, just as one metal fan may have lost a blade or two as underhood shrapnel on equally rare occasions, though associating value to the extremely rare and isolated stories is pretty ludicrous in my mind, especially when it leads people jeopardize the function of a critical component in their cars which will leave a bunch of people stranded or calling AAA as a result...Sorry, this "one guy" story just totally pegged, overshot and exploded the fan on my BS meter this morning

You can do whatever you like. I am just passing along info that I read.
To me it sounds perfectly reasonable. At what RPM was the plastic fan certified for? When the plastic or composite or whatever has seen many heat cycles, will it still make the cut? Please share with us the extent of the testing GM did on the design, since you obviously are "in the know". As well please let us know if all remanufacturers are using the stock fans or slapping on made in china look-a-likes.

Anyway here is the link to the thread. Maybe you should go over there and tell him he is full of it. He must not have received the memo:
http://www.montecarloss.com/communit...&Number=493219

As fas as coming from the factory with them, I assumed from the few that I have seen, that perhaps they came this way. Maybe during the reman process they were changed.

In any event, I could care less what you believe or do not, but after thinking about it, I will not risk taking out my hood because "Socrates" of the PY forums says it won't happen.

I remember several years ago when you "experts" were swearing up and down on how the stock rods were fine and it was one in a million failing etc etc. Now I don't think there is anyone who doesn't recommend putting in aftermarket rods in any build.

[JSchmitz]

I had a chrome steel alternator fan fly apart on me. It was at about 5,000 engine rpm's. It put two real nice dents in my perfectly straight '64 GTO hood. It left a small chunk still between the pulley and the shoulder on the shaft. So, the pulley didn't even come loose. It also cut one of the fan belts about half way through. I was about 2-1/2 hours from home. I drove it home with no failure. I found an old body man who shrunk the dent completely out! I was amazed! The chroming process makes parts brittle. No more chrome alternators for me thanks. I have a plastic fan now.

[Socrates]

Um, what in the world do stock rods have anything to do with anything here? I run aftermarket rods in my junk for a good decade+, I've suggested others do the same. I'm confused.

I found your single source reference for the Monte Carlo CS144 explosion (without picture proof to be found):

http://www.montecarloss.com/communit...&Number=493219

He said he shifted his 8 second 1/4 race only car at 8,000RPMs. Can't say I know too many Pontiac guys shifting at 8K. In fact, anything much over 6K is pretty exotic for the typical long stroke dump truck engines most guys here will build.

Again, do as you wish. It's your towing bill or (cough) your metalwork to pay for, no one else's. We all spend our own money and take our own chances. Though please do come back after a few weeks or months of use and tell us where you got stranded if and when the alternator goes into thermonuclear meltdown from ditching the OEM engineered, superiorly designed modern cooling fan for a 50+yr old relic...