[64speed]

Only thing I asked about was loss of pressure LOL. Which was damn near nil. I can drive in the cold now though. Wayne told me I could Use Lucas Hot Rod Oil or VR1. I don’t know the reason, I suppose I could ask, I’m just telling you what the man said

[Jay S]

In the case of Valvoline VR1 racing oils you can mix the full synthetic or synthetic blend with each other, and even different grades with any of the VR1 products. Even the “non” synthetic VR1 is still a synthetic blend of the full synthetic VR1. The only down side I know of with full synthetic VR1 is the price. Some racing engines get the oil changed to frequently to give the full synthetic any advantage for the extra cost.

I took one of my cars out over the weekend, with 20w50 VR1 full synthetic. It has a crank out of a Top fuel car (rediculous oil clearance!). It was a chilly 25*F out, I watched the gauge when I started it up, I could not tell much difference compared to when it was warmer. BTW, if your a fair weather car guy, you should know that taking the car for a brisk spin in the bitter cold feels like your spraying it with NOS. .

Personally if it were mine, and VR1 was being used, and 20w50 was what the builder set the engine up for, I would wait till the warrantee is past, and then switch to 20w50 VR1 full synthetic. No down side that I know of (other than $).

For ring and cylinder wear, every test I have ever seen the 30W oil’s were superior over 40W and 50W.

[Jay S]

Is was a question about oil. We can get at least 7 or 8 more pages out of this. Lol

[Gach]

Originally Posted by 64speed

Only thing I asked about was loss of pressure LOL. Which was damn near nil. I can drive in the cold now though. Wayne told me I could Use Lucas Hot Rod Oil or VR1. I don’t know the reason, I suppose I could ask, I’m just telling you what the man said

Who else to go by then your tested engine builder. Please don’t send him a link to this thread..he’ll probably throw you out of his shop…LOL

[Gach]

Originally Posted by Jay S

Is was a question about oil. We can get at least 7 or 8 more pages out of this. Lol

We definitely have the audience for it..lol

[Formulajones]

I doubt he's suggesting to avoid synthetic because it's a flat tappet. If that's the case he doesn't have a clear understanding of oil.

You know how many people have run synthetics in flat tappet engines? More than we can count. Myself I've done it for decades. Even both of my current dailys have flat tappets and nothing but synthetic since break in and both have logged nearly 60k miles a piece.

I guess if he warrantied your engine for leaks and is worried his seal job may not hold up with a better oil then by all means follow his advice until warranty is over, then run what ever the hell you want.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by Gach

The bottom line is he’s doing the right thing, abiding by his engine builder wishes . I don’t think it’s up to us to criticize his engine builders choice.

Not criticizing his builders choice at all, just reply to the comment that its because synthetic causes leaks... or that changing from regular oil to synthetic causes leaks. Very old outdated myths.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I doubt he's suggesting to avoid synthetic because it's a flat tappet. If that's the case he doesn't have a clear understanding of oil.

You know how many people have run synthetics in flat tappet engines? More than we can count. Myself I've done it for decades. Even both of my current dailys have flat tappets and nothing but synthetic since break in and both have logged nearly 60k miles a piece.

I guess if he warrantied your engine for leaks and is worried his seal job may not hold up with a better oil then by all means follow his advice until warranty is over, then run what ever the hell you want.

Just a guess for why synthetic would void his warranty based on what Ive read over the years on many occasions, the claim was synthetic made the lifters not rotate. Never heard of voided warranty for synthetic causing leaks is all I was saying... but I suppose anything is possible.

I also have & do run synthetic on FT cam engines, never had a problem so I agree anyone claiming those things about synthetic oils dont have a good understanding of oil. The other thing I have read about was not using synthetic on a new or rebuilt engine for ring seating issues, but have also read of guys using it for break in & that the bore/honing process matters more for ring seating... some new cars come with it that dont get broken in first.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by 78w72

Just a guess for why synthetic would void his warranty based on what Ive read over the years on many occasions, the claim was synthetic made the lifters not rotate. Never heard of voided warranty for synthetic causing leaks is all I was saying... but I suppose anything is possible.

I also have & do run synthetic on FT cam engines, never had a problem so I agree anyone claiming those things about synthetic oils dont have a good understanding of oil. The other thing I have read about was not using synthetic on a new or rebuilt engine for ring seating issues, but have also read of guys using it for break in & that the bore/honing process matters more for ring seating... some new cars come with it that dont get broken in first.

The lifter rotation theory makes no sense. It's not the oil that rotates the lifters, it the taper machined into the lobes and the lifter face.

If it were the oils fault both of my daily drivers would have died a cam failure death a long time ago

[78w72]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

The lifter rotation theory makes no sense. It's not the oil that rotates the lifters, it the taper machined into the lobes and the lifter face.

If it were the oils fault both of my daily drivers would have died a cam failure death a long time ago

Again, I agree, just saying what Ive read on more than one occasion over the years.

Yes the taper of the lifter/cam is what rotates the lifters... but based on the claim synthetic is too "slippery" so doesnt have the required friction to allow the lifters to rotate. No idea if that could be a real issue, but with all the talk recently of some cam/lifters not having the proper taper machined in, maybe it can contribute to less rotation?

Kind of the same reason some say to not use synthetic for break in, it reduces friction so much that rings wont seat. Yet many new engines like corvettes come with synthetic as factory fill.

[ZeGermanHam]

Originally Posted by 78w72

Yet many new engines like corvettes come with synthetic as factory fill.

They use roller lifters, however.

[Steve C.]

"Most people prefer using a conventional oil for the initial break-in, and then use a conventional oil for the next 1500 to 5000 miles before switching to a synthetic if they want to use a synthetic oil.
Synthetic oils are made from higher quality base stocks that provide superior lubricity as well as longevity.
Some say synthetic oils are “too slippery” for use as a break-in oil while others say using a high quality synthetic oil for the initial break-in is a waste of money because the oil will be drained within a few hours or few hundred miles once the initial break-in process is finished.
There’s no straight answer to this question because of how long it takes for the rings to seat depends on how they cylinder walls were finished."

Source: https://www.enginebuildermag.com/201...ly-lube-needs/


( Information provided in this post does not represent any endorsement. And unless specified it is not based on personal experience and is offered for general interest only )


.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by ZeGermanHam

They use roller lifters, however.

True, was referring to the ring break in thing....

[PunchT37]

Originally Posted by 78w72

Not criticizing his builders choice at all, just reply to the comment that its because synthetic causes leaks... or that changing from regular oil to synthetic causes leaks. Very old outdated myths.

I thought that also. For a long time. BUT, I added full synthetic Valvoline to my 5.3L Chevy truck. It had around 100,000 miles at that time. This thing, I bought new. I only, work on it. I got a deal on the oil. So, I used it. Truck only had regular oils since new.

Thing started leaking a short time later. I have changed the oil pan gasket and the valley gasket. It still has a small leak today at 150,000 miles. Prolly the cam sensor o ring.

Thing is, I used the same synthetic oil in my NEW built poncho 455. Even with rope seal. NO leaks.

So, maybe not a myth as I thought also. I`m 60 years old and have been a mechanic for 25 years, even though I`m out now. So, this is new to me and maybe not a myth.

[64speed]

So my builder and I are friends so I asked him. He said he really didn’t care what I ran at this point as by now the engine is “broken in”. In the past he has had problems with ring seal with people immediately running exotic oil from day one. He stands behind his recommendation for Lucas or VR1 but any quality oil made for our cars is fine.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Gach

I’ve been a long time user of Valvoline VR1, are there better oils out there personally I classify it as just as good as Valvoline. There’s really no scientific proof that one particular oil is the best. At some point its all marketing, vs Valvoline having a history, of being number 1 oil sold of all time. That’s not to discouraged people from making other choices. So when asked that question you’re going to get different opinions.

Facts not in evidence:

US Automotive Engine Oils Market Leaders



BP PLC (Castrol)

ExxonMobil Corporation

Phillips 66 Lubricants

Royal Dutch Shell Plc

Valvoline Inc. Source: https://www.mordorintelligence.com/i...ne-oils-market

[jhein]

Originally Posted by 64speed

So my builder and I are friends so I asked him. He said he really didn’t care what I ran at this point as by now the engine is “broken in”. In the past he has had problems with ring seal with people immediately running exotic oil from day one. He stands behind his recommendation for Lucas or VR1 but any quality oil made for our cars is fine.

For the record, I would generally be in the camp of following the builder's recommendation.

Did you ask him what main and rod bearing clearances you have?

I'm only asking because my builder recommended 15w40. My clearances may be just a tiny bit more than (what I've seen as) the ideal for street motor, which is 0.0025 main and 0.0020 for rods. What I have is 0.0027 main and 0.0024 rod. But I've also seen mentioned the ideal for clearances at 0.001 per inch of journal diameter which would be 0.003 main and 0.002 rod for my crank.

I have a 60psi pump with 25 psi at hot idle and 60+ psi above 1700 rpm. Cold is 60++. That's with 15w40.

[Steve C.]

Disclaimer: Major Players sorted in no particular order Source

Does this apply to the 5 companies listed above in post 96?

[Gach]

Originally Posted by PunchT37

I thought that also. For a long time. BUT, I added full synthetic Valvoline to my 5.3L Chevy truck. It had around 100,000 miles at that time. This thing, I bought new. I only, work on it. I got a deal on the oil. So, I used it. Truck only had regular oils since new.

Thing started leaking a short time later. I have changed the oil pan gasket and the valley gasket. It still has a small leak today at 150,000 miles. Prolly the cam sensor o ring.

Thing is, I used the same synthetic oil in my NEW built poncho 455. Even with rope seal. NO leaks.

So, maybe not a myth as I thought also. I`m 60 years old and have been a mechanic for 25 years, even though I`m out now. So, this is new to me and maybe not a myth.

Perfectly honest valuation. Because I’ve had similar situation‘s.

[Gach]

Originally Posted by The Champ

Facts not in evidence:

Well then you can consider all the other marketing hype facts not in evidence…LOL It’s all marketing and all what you buy into.