[Speargun]

Here's my review of 3 different aluminum radiators that I tested in my 1967 Firebird.

The contestants in today's review are:
Champion's 4 row
Eastwood's 2 row, triple pass
Cold Case 2 row, triple pass.

January 2017 I finally put my 1967 Firebird on the road after 25 years. I built a 455 +.060, 10.25:1 compression, hydraulic roller, engine for it that should be close to 600hp. From the start, I had issues with the engine running hot after 10-15 miles on the highway and any time I got caught at a few red lights.

The original cooling system was a Champion, 4 row, radiator with an old “Black Magic” electric fan. Since the fan & shroud didn't cover the entire radiator, I upgraded to an aluminum shroud with an 11” & 12” Spal, medium profile fans. Since the first gen Firebirds have such a small grill, I also added the upper baffles to the core support and have a lower chin spoiler. The only thing I don't have is the lower baffle on the core support. The water pump is an old style Flowkooler with the plate welded on the vanes & I clearanced the divider plate to as close as it would go without rubbing.

This setup still was not enough to keep the engine cool.
On average, the water temperature was running in the high 220* range on a 70* night on the highway and during the day, or in town, I would have to stop & let it cool down after about 30 minutes.

My next step was to install an Eastwood, 2 row, triple pass radiator that claimed up to 20* temperature drop from inlet to outlet. Using the same shroud and fans, it cooled a little bit better, but still was not enough for stop & go traffic or highway trips more than 10-15 miles.
Narrowing down the issue to airflow, I upgraded to two 11” Spal “extreme duty” fans that effectively doubled the CFM to around 3200 cfm. Once again this helped a little, but not nearly enough.
This setup would run 210* - 225* pretty all of the time other than heavy traffic where the temps would start to climb. The average daily temps were high 60's at night and maybe peaking 81* during the day.

My next upgrade was to try a Cold Case radiator with the same shroud & extreme duty fans.

Summer has officially arrived in Florida. The average nightly/daily temperature is high 70's to mid 90's. The first time I drove to town with the Cold Case radiator the day started out at 79*. I drove the 12 miles to town and the temps stayed right at 180*. With the AC on! I made a few stops as the temperature climbed up to 94*. In stop & go traffic, the highest temperature I saw was 203* without the AC & 212* with the AC on.
Since then, the highest temp I've seen was 208* on a 98* day, in heavy traffic, and normal temps are around 180* to 195*. If I run the AC, the temps will start to climb so I still need more CFM, but comparing apples to apples, the Cold Case radiator out performed the Champion & Eastwood radiators by a long shot. I plan on changing over to a clutch fan, factory type shroud, and adding an electric fan for the AC in the near future. This should provide all of the airflow needed to keep the car cool on the hottest day with the AC blowing full blast.

I ran an idle test with the three radiators to see how long they would last before I needed to shut the car down to cool. The ambient temperatures were all within +/- 2 degrees and I shut down once the car reached 210*

The Champion lasted about 14 minutes
The Eastwood made it to 20 minutes
The Cold Case stayed right at 185* until I ended the test at the 40 minute mark.


==================================
Radiator specs:

The Champion radiator was well built, a good fit, and only required mounting holes to be drilled to mount to core support.

http://www.championradiators.com/Pon...1967-1968-1969

Champion All Aluminum Radiator
4-Row Core; Polished Tanks*|*Cools up to 700hp

Radiator Dimensions:
Total:*19.25" tall x 30.25" (including brackets)
Core:*17" tall x 23" wide x 2.75" thick
Inlet:*1.5" driver side
Outlet:*1.75" passenger side
Tanks:*3.25" thick
Tubes:*0.63" thick
==================================

The Eastwood radiator was well built, a good fit. Mounting holes were a little off & had to be opened up a little to mount to core support. The lower outlet is angled towards the centerline of the car which required me to cut off about 4” of the lower hose to fit, but didn't seem to affect performance. It did, however, make it a little more difficult to install/remove the lower hose.

http://www.eastwood.com/28-in-tri-fl...axx-power.html

28 In Tri Flow Aluminum Radiator Maxx Power
Item #20152 Brand: Maxx Power

28 inches overall length from tank to tank
(2) 1” tubes
Mount tabs on each tank add another 2 inches to each side
Upper hose is on driver side, lower hose is on passenger side
Filler neck located on passenger side
Core thickness 2.2 inches
Upper hose diameter: 1.5 inches
Lower hose diameter: 1.75 inches
Overall core height: 19 inches
==================================

The Cold Case radiator was well built, a good fit, and didn't need any modification to mount to core support.

http://coldcaseradiators.com/firebir...m-radiator-mt/

-100% TIG welded*
-All Aluminum*
-Polished OE style tanks
-(2) 1.25" Tubes
-16 fins per inch*
-Corrugated fins that give more surface area and more thermal transfer*
-Pressure tested*
-For standard/manual trans
-Tri Flow Design
-Direct fitment for 67-69 Camaro BB/Firebird/Trans Am

[Gary H]

Great information! Just built a engine for a customer in Palm Coast with a 68' Firebird and he is running into similar cooling issues. He has a Champion 4 core radiator and a black magic fan. The car wants to run between 205 and 220 and the higher temperature happens on the highway versus around town. Looks like we might have to try the Cold Case unit.

[hog1340]

Excellent job. Thanks for the review.

[Hammertime Mike]

Good info! thanks

[78w72]

good review. i would assume the more expensive, triple pass radiators would cool better than the cheaper single pass radiators. however, unless im reading it wrong it doesnt seem to be an "apples to apples" comparison. the champion had medium profile fans but then you changed to extreme duty fans on the other 2 radiators that you said doubled the cfm. what would the champion do with those fans? the champion may be the lesser of the 2 radiators but is also the cheapest price of the 2. that isnt really apples to apples...

i have a similar engine combo, 400 based stroker 467, 10:75, aluminum head, roller cam in a 72 firebird with a champion 3 row & a stock shroud & worn out clutch fan. while a 72 has a little more grille area than a 67, my car runs at 180 in most all conditions maybe 190 on the hottest days. while im not in florida, we get almost florida like weather in iowa in the hottest summer months... upper 80's to mid 90's & 80%+ humidity. the 3 row champion in my car cools great.

i debated on getting the 4 row champion but based on their advertisement the 3 row is good to 600+hp & being on a budget for this car i decided to take my chances... its been doing great for over 3 years with lots of drag strip use & ~3000+ street miles & was a perfect fit for the stock shroud.

if you have a cooling issue with your engine, maybe something else is going on with the system? did you clearance the water pump to divider plate? is it a good quality water pump? ive also read factory shroud & clutch fans can cool better than many of the electric fans & aftermarket shrouds. just saying that every engine is different & your issue may not be radiator related. a better radiator may have fixed the symptom but not the cause.

[GT182]

Great info Speargun. I bought a Cold Case for my 66 GTO because of the build and cost. It looks close to a Harrison even with the few missing indents. Very well built and it works as advertised. My temp runs as 180, and jumps up to 190 every once in a while at a long long redlight or having to sit and idle. Once moving again it drops fast back to 180.

Now for me to jump in and stir the pot.

What side was the petcock on your original radiator? If you notice, all Cold Case radiators have it on the driver's side. Ccass has a thread (Poll) asking what side it's found on the cars we have with original radiators after I complained about it on mine. It was on the passengers side on my original radiator. Not all Pontiacs had the petcock on the drivers side. Add your info on what side to it please...... http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=807018

I'll be at the SVGTO Club's car show on August 19th, 2017. If you are attending I will be recording where the petcock is on all cars up to when the cross flow radiators came out. See ya there.

[Speargun]

When I got the car, the petcock was on the driver's side & every other radiator I've seen had it in the same location. That said, the car had a small block chevy in it & the powerglide had been swapped out for a TH350 so the radiator may, or may not, have been factory.

[78w72]

i read your post again & saw that you did clearance the water pump, so that shouldnt be an issue. but it sounds like there is something else going on with the engine/tune that is making it run that hot. the engine temps you posted with the champion & eastwood radiators are excessive & the engine should not run anywhere near that hot... especially in 60* & 70* weather! the engine temps i posted for my car are for summer driving... if its in the 60's it will barely get hot enough to open the t=stat @ 180*.

again, every engine is different but there are tons of guys running similiar engines & even more radical ones that dont have any cooling issues, but then there are some that just cant get the car to run cool.

what are some other specs of the engine? like cam, heads, carb, t-stat, etc. maybe some others can give some advice as to why it runs so hot? im far from an expert on this subject but there are other factors to consider that can create overheating like carb mixture, timing, air pockets in engine, hot trans (auto) without a seperate trans cooler, etc etc.

thats good you were able to remedy the issue with a new radiator though.

[GT182]

Make sure your carb is setup to run E10 gas. I have a sneaky feeling that E10 part of everyone's troubles.

I've run 100LL and VR-1 Racing Fuel and not had the overheating issues like running E10 gas. Premium Octane E10 didn't help a lot either.

Seeing you live in Florida, try to find pump gas with no Ethanol in it and run with a tank full. Let us know what you find out.

[Speargun]

Originally Posted by 78w72

good review. i would assume the more expensive, triple pass radiators would cool better than the cheaper single pass radiators. however, unless im reading it wrong it doesnt seem to be an "apples to apples" comparison. the champion had medium profile fans but then you changed to extreme duty fans on the other 2 radiators that you said doubled the cfm. what would the champion do with those fans? the champion may be the lesser of the 2 radiators but is also the cheapest price of the 2. that isnt really apples to apples.... <SNIP>

I meant to get back to you earlier, but got distracted by something shiny.

You are correct about apples to apples....
I did change fans in the middle of the tests, BUT, the Eastwood performed better than the Champion WITH the first set of fans so there is an apples to apples comparison.
I then put on the bigger fans which helped the Eastwood even more. I would expect a similar improvement from the Champion with the same fans, but I would also expect the Eastwood to perform better by a similar margin.
The next apples to apples comparison is between the Eastwood & Cold Case with the big fans. The Cold Case was the winner here.

So while the entire series of tests didn't follow the scientific method to the letter, there are enough data to make a reasonable conclusion that the Eastwood is better than the Champion and the Cold Case works better than the the other two.

Disclaimer:
This was on my setup.
Your mileage may vary.

[chrisp]

Originally Posted by 78w72

good review. i would assume the more expensive, triple pass radiators would cool better than the cheaper single pass radiators. however, unless im reading it wrong it doesnt seem to be an "apples to apples" comparison. the champion had medium profile fans but then you changed to extreme duty fans on the other 2 radiators that you said doubled the cfm. what would the champion do with those fans? the champion may be the lesser of the 2 radiators but is also the cheapest price of the 2. that isnt really apples to apples...

i have a similar engine combo, 400 based stroker 467, 10:75, aluminum head, roller cam in a 72 firebird with a champion 3 row & a stock shroud & worn out clutch fan. while a 72 has a little more grille area than a 67, my car runs at 180 in most all conditions maybe 190 on the hottest days. while im not in florida, we get almost florida like weather in iowa in the hottest summer months... upper 80's to mid 90's & 80%+ humidity. the 3 row champion in my car cools great.

i debated on getting the 4 row champion but based on their advertisement the 3 row is good to 600+hp & being on a budget for this car i decided to take my chances... its been doing great for over 3 years with lots of drag strip use & ~3000+ street miles & was a perfect fit for the stock shroud.

if you have a cooling issue with your engine, maybe something else is going on with the system? did you clearance the water pump to divider plate? is it a good quality water pump? ive also read factory shroud & clutch fans can cool better than many of the electric fans & aftermarket shrouds. just saying that every engine is different & your issue may not be radiator related. a better radiator may have fixed the symptom but not the cause.

Agreed & a new motor until broken in will run hotter as well , my Champion cooled 461 Tripower 10.43 kauffman head with 484 torque & 424 HP @ the rear wheels on Dyno runs 180 down the road & 190 sitting in traffic . Most important is your tune & the A/F ratio @ idle & off idle / WOT if running lean you will run hot . I would like to try a CC rad to see if it makes any difference .

[ZeGermanHam]

I just installed a Cold Case radiator in my '66 GTO this week and thought I'd share my experience for others who may read this thread in the future.

On the whole, I am very pleased. It dropped right in with no fuss and fit perfectly, including the auto trans cooler line connections. The build quality is very good.

Performance wise, coolant temps hovered around 190F when the ambient temperature was over 95F and humid. It went down to around 180F when ambient temps were in the 70s. My car has always struggled to stay under 200F in the past in any weather, so I'm quite happy with things now.

It's a great product that I'd certainly recommend to anyone.

[george kujanski]

I have a basic stock 455, 6X heads. Installed a Cold Case, holds temp even in the 90+ weather we have been having lately. Had to massage the bottom saddle mounts slightly to get it to fit...anyone else have this issue? My core support LOOKS stock but I don't have the car's history from the previous owner. I'm still backing out from the "modifications" the PO did.

George

[70GS455]

Interesting results. Going by pictures on the manufacturer's website Champion has 42 tubes per row for a total of 168 tubes, but they are .63" ea. Multiplying these together, I get 105 tube-inches. The Eastwood has 43 tubes per row, 86 total tubes and 86 tube-inches. The Cold case has 39 tubes per row, 78 tubes total, and 97.5 tube-inches. The Champion has the most tubes, yet they are the smallest. The Cold case has the least tubes and are the biggest, yet outperforms the other 2 in this test.

Sent from my SM-T817V using Tapatalk

[vidguy]

Originally Posted by george kujanski

I have a basic stock 455, 6X heads. Installed a Cold Case, holds temp even in the 90+ weather we have been having lately. Had to massage the bottom saddle mounts slightly to get it to fit...anyone else have this issue? My core support LOOKS stock but I don't have the car's history from the previous owner. I'm still backing out from the "modifications" the PO did.

George

I run a champion in my 455 powered 75 Formula. I have 2 full years of almost daily driving in it. I had to slightly cut out the metal corners of the lower core support to get it to fit. Rather minor really. I also had to trim thee plastic shroud to reveal the cap better.

It holds the car under 190 degrees all the time, no matter what.

I recently put a Cold Case in the GTO with the Carter built 413. I only have about 20 miles on that but so far it cools it equally well and fit perfectly. It did exhibit a slight warp. but It bolted in fine.

I did have a minor gripe with the adapters they sent not working for stock lines but I got over it..

I painted it with the Eastwood radiator paint and it looks perfectly smooth and stock

[Chief of the 60's]

FYI: I knew a guy that was a vendor for Champion. He sold a lot of them and everything was going great, until all the warranty claims were coming in. Take that for what it is worth. You get what you pay for.

He no longer sells Champion radiators.

[chrisp]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

FYI: I knew a guy that was a vendor for Champion. He sold a lot of them and everything was going great, until all the warranty claims were coming in. Take that for what it is worth. You get what you pay for.

He no longer sells Champion radiators.

Champions are lifetime warranty & if a vendor had to replace them he still filled his pockets as the Man. Co. would take the hit .They in my opinion are a excellent Co. with sales @ #1 . 8 years in my ride & still staying cool.

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by chrisp

Champions are lifetime warranty & if a vendor had to replace them he still filled his pockets as the Man. Co. would take the hit .They in my opinion are a excellent Co. with sales @ #1 . 8 years in my ride & still staying cool.

Do you own a business? Have you ever had to warranty anything? Whenever something goes wrong, whether or not there is a warranty, it mind as well be your personal name on the problem item. Most people do not care that there is a warranty when there is a problem, they just know they have a problem and it is your fault. In the case of this vendor, he got tired of all the comebacks and the bad feedback that followed, he eliminated the problem and no longer sells Champion radiators.

Back in '05 I stopped selling GM vehicles at my dealership for the same reason.

[chrisp]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

Do you own a business? Have you ever had to warranty anything? Whenever something goes wrong, whether or not there is a warranty, it mind as well be your personal name on the problem item. Most people do not care that there is a warranty when there is a problem, they just know they have a problem and it is your fault. In the case of this vendor, he got tired of all the comebacks and the bad feedback that followed, he eliminated the problem and no longer sells Champion radiators.

Back in '05 I stopped selling GM vehicles at my dealership for the same reason.

Yes i am a Buis. owner & agree on standing behind all you do & sell as every product can have issues & you get through them & correct them & go forth .

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by chrisp

Yes i am a Buis. owner & agree on standing behind all you do & sell as every product can have issues & you get through them & correct them & go forth .

Then you know full well that when a product line is a "problem child", you eliminate it and the problems that go with it.

I understand the consumer's mindset but christ, we don't make it. Blame the product not the vendor.