[64speed]

I know nothing about -an fittings and am a little nervous about setting up my fuel system. I have stumble across The earls push lock vapor guard hose so tell me if this sounds like a plan. The outlets on the sniper fuel tank are not an they are 1/4 NPT so I was gonna buy the Earls 3/8 adapter that is compatible with their vapor beard hose and use a fuel injection clamp to secure it to my 3/8 hard line. Midway down the line I was gonna cut the hard line and use a compression fitting to adapt the 3/8 line to -6 an and a 10 micron filter. Running from the other end of the filter I will run the hard line up the back of the bellhousing and secure the hardline to the sniper throttle body with a compression adapter an fitting. Does this sound like a viable plan?

[Squidward]

I used Fragola hose, https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fra-871006, and mostly Fragola push lok fittings for my AN-6 stuff. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fra-200106-bl

Doing flares on the 3/8 stock steel fuel line was actually easier than I thought it would be. Make sure that you use a 37* flare tool, and not an old school 45* double inverted flare. Read up on the differences if necessary. Doing a single flare will work fine.

Cut your steel tube, slip on your flare nut, and start your flare by slightly swedging the inner diameter - it makes the flare form more easily, which keeps the tube from pressing out of the clamp. Then put on your tube clamp and flaring press, and do your biz.

I used a tool similar to this:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-900311

I stopped at a local hose supply place where I got a bunch of -6 JIC female tube nuts and double male adapters to join my new hose components.

I don't like the idea of having to use a clamp. If done right, you shouldn't need one. Filter location is a matter of accessibility and preference. I put mine under the hood a few feet from the throttle body. I did 2 AN flares on my stock 3/8 line: one at the back where the soft line used to connect to the tank outlet, and one at the front passenger side before it crossed over on the crossmember.

I think once you go AN fittings, you will never go back unless you do a resto motif. Sooooo groovy.

[HWYSTR455]

The Earl's Super Stock Push On stuff is nice, and I like the fact that the ends come in black too. Both hose and ends come in black and blue. So you could do black hose with blue ends, or black hose and blue ends. I'm not a fan of blue hose with black or blue ends, but you could do black hose with black ends. I personally would like the contrast of blue hose with black ends. If you don't like the colors, or fitting selection, try Russell, Aeroquip, or other name brand stuff.

I don't like the vapor lock stuff, it requires special clamps, and a special tool, which drives the cost up. Regular push lock stuff looks better, and easier to assemble.

I tried using less expensive brands, but wow, you get what you pay for. I tried using the Jegs house brand push lock stuff, and found the fitting quality was low enough where the are hard to assemble sometimes. Also had some that leaked, and found myself replacing a bunch.

My last AN plumbing job I used Russell Pro Classic hose, and wow, that stuff is so easy to assemble it's crazy. They also offer not only 4 different colors in hose ends, Red/Blue, Silver/clear anodized (Endura), Black, and Black/Silver. They also offer anodized adding colors like gold and purple.

Ok, enough rambling. Plan your ENTIRE system from front to back, draw it out on paper, and think it through. Since you have a deadhead system, that makes it considerably easier. General rules of thumb:

*Run as much hard line as possible.
*Use 'soft' line for any transitions from body to frame, or areas of movement
*Don't solidly mount hard line, use adel clamps with rubber, and don't make it tightly clamp/affix the hose, it need to move a little or it can work harden.
*Use quality parts

Take a look here:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...%2F2+fuel+line

That's using a bypass regulator, so ignore that, and just concentrate on a single line.

Sorry to say, but in general, you will probably have to replace the existing line, even if it's new. There are compression fittings that are compatible with steel line, but they are not inexpensive, and you want to use as least as possible. A lot of times it's easier to run aluminum line, the ends are more readily available. I do have part numbers for the compression fittings that work on steel lines if you're interested.

I forget now, did you get a Tanks Inc EFI tank and fuel pump assembly?

Do a google search and see what others have done for examples on your body style. Might get some good ideas.

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[HWYSTR455]

Couple examples from my build thread:

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[64speed]

Ok so I talked to holley tech for a long time today and this is the plan. The fuel pump in the tank has a 1/4 NOT barbed fitting coming out. Use Earls vapor lock pushed over the barbs and secured with fuel injection hose clamp. Connect to new 3/8 hard line with barb flare just over the axle like factory. Half way down frame rail cut hard line and use a compression an adapter to connect the hard line the a -6an 10 micron holley fuel filter. Another compression fitting out of the filter to hard line where hard line branches off the frame rail follow it up the back of the bellhousing to the throttle body where I replace an inlets with an to barb adapters and connect softline for engine movement. Same thing on return line minus the splice for the filter. Sound like a plan?

[64speed]

Lot of aotocorrect errors in that last post. I hate typing from my phone. If it’s not clear ask me

[Squidward]

Sounds pretty good so far. Keep us posted.

The barb fittings I used were push lok barbs, so I didn't use any clamps. Um, yeah... those puppies weren't coming off without a knife.

In my previous post I mentioned cutting tube and slipping on the tube nut. I forgot to mention that there is also a sleeve that goes on after the nut. This acts as a washer so that the tube nut doesn't compress directly on the flare. That's a reason why AN connections don't need to be double flared, unlike the 45 degree versions, where the flare nut rotates directly against the flared tube portion.

So if you do your steel line with a fitting (3/8 steel line = AN-6), use something like this:

[64speed]

My hard line will only be flared where rubber line is connected to it with no nuts just a clamp behind the flare. Any an hooks I have which should only be at the fuel fitting will use compression style an fitting with the brass sleeve and the screw together fittings. Holley tech says this is fine.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by 64speed

My hard line will only be flared where rubber line is connected to it with no nuts just a clamp behind the flare.

This doesn’t sound adequate for the high psi of efi

[Squidward]

Originally Posted by 64speed

My hard line will only be flared where rubber line is connected to it with no nuts just a clamp behind the flare. Any an hooks I have which should only be at the fuel fitting will use compression style an fitting with the brass sleeve and the screw together fittings. Holley tech says this is fine.

I'd be curious how that works out. When I was putting my stuff together, I looked at the ferrule type compression fittings, and everything I was looking at showed them rated for 55 psi. Since my fuel system ran at 58, I wasn't sure where the failure point would be. Part of me felt "ah, that'll be fine", and the other part was saying "...but what if?"

Another was cost. The ferrule fittings were $12-14 or so. The flare tube nuts, sleeves, and double male fittings were super cheap and local. I still have a $14 ferrule style tube adapter fitting on the top of the fridge.

I'm not sure I will ever use another hose clamp on a fuel system, ever. Wrenches > screwdriver. I might have to go back and make my Lemans plumbing a little cleaner. I used the FiTech fuel command center on that one, but I like how clean my Firebird fuel system turned out. No return lines, etc. up front.

Is your plumbing in progress now, or is it still in the planning phase?

[64speed]

Still in the planning phase. Holley assured me that the compression fitting are more than adequate and they will only be used at the fuel filter. They said that efi hose clamps would be fine over regular flared line as long as there wasn’t an abundance of them

[HWYSTR455]

Aeroquip/Eaton Versa-Flare compression fittings are rated for steel line and rated at 5000 psi.

The problem with barbed fittings is they are not serviceable. You have to cut the line, that can damage the fitting, and makes the line shorter. You want to deal with that every time you check, clean, or replace a filter?

Why are you against using AN fittings? You have to do the transition anyway, so just use AN, and you have a perfectly serviceable, easy to assemble connection.

Push lock hose is easy to assemble, easy to service, and requires no clamps. Holley gave you recommendations based on your request/desire to use vaporlock hose.

I see now that the Sniper requires a return line, wasn't sure about that. Soooo, you have to run a return line. So why not run both? Remove the original line, run aluminum, with compression fittings, and regular push lock type hose and fittings. It's not rocket science, and considering what you've accomplished in the past, you're fully capable of doing a fuel system.

You have general examples of running the lines. The Summit Racing aluminum fuel line is rated to 5000 psi, and is inexpensive. 2 roles is less than $50, and easy to bend/run. You can use the regular compression fittings available from any of the AN fitting/hose manufacturers, all the ends will match and look nice. In your case, using 3/8 line and AN 6 fittings is plenty, making it even easier & less expensive than doing 1/2 lines.

At the firewall, make a small 90 degree plate with 2 holes in it, and use bulkhead AN fittings to mount the lines, and you only need 2 small runs of hose to the throttle body. Run the lines down the firewall ending close to the frame rail, and use another angle bracket/ bulkhead fittings, run hose to transition from the firewall/body to the frame. You can use regular adel clamps on the frame to mount the hard lines on the frame. In the middle of the frame run, transition the feed line to hose and install a filter inline. Same in the back when going from the frame to the tank.

Both the photos I post on this thread, and the link I provided for my other thread give good general examples of how to do it. In the install thread, you see where I used a regulator, and in your case, just use the bulkhead fittings and an angle plate.

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[Scott65]

Do yourself a favor if you plan on keeping this car, and use ptfe lined hose for the sections that you want to be flexible. I ran all new lines with pushlok 9 years ago. I'm gonna have to do it again soon. It will be ptfe lined this time.

[HWYSTR455]

PFTE goes bad too, and it's recommended it be replaced at intervals. 9 years ago is roughly the time when AN manufacturers switched to new type hoses, to deal with eth. It took some time for all the old stock of hose to get cycled out of warehouses, which made the community recognize the issues.

The rule of thumb is to replace AN hose every 8-10 years anyway, believe NHRA says every 5, so it's not life-long stuff. Yeah, people get away with it, but I have also seen braided line seep right thru the braided mesh.

PFTE is expensive, and total overkill for a fuel system, unless you are doing E85 or some other special fuel. It's harder to assemble, and doesn't route/bend as easy. I personally see no reason to go to that extreme, and I am pretty much an overkill kind of guy.

Regardless, that is another reason to run as much as possible hard line, because of the service interval. A few feet is better than replacing a few 10s of feet. Kills me when I hear people recommending to just run braided hose the length of the car. Not to mention the potential 'hammer' effect in a fuel system, especially EFI. They even make dampeners for the issue.

I did an EFI conversion in the late 90s, and at that time I did considerable homework on the subject of fuel systems. I called and talked to many authoritive 'experts' on the subject, and had many theoretical debates. (I'm OCD for sure!). The take away from those efforts lead me to where I am now, and feel the advice in general is acceptable. If people are in question, and have a little time for the planning stage, it's best to reach out and talk to people in the industry. Most are happy to spend a few mins discussing, especially if you have more than a basic knowledge.

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[64speed]

I am running as much hardline as possible. The only barbs are the 1/4 NPT fittings at the tank. The fittings into the fuel filter are going to be an fittings just compression style to mate to the hard line.

[HWYSTR455]

There's no reason to use barb fittings at the tank. Do a AN to NTP adapter, and use AN fittings and hose. At the filter, in order to service the filter element, you need flexible lines, so you should do at least 6" of AN hose and AN fittings at each end, or at least one end of the filter.

https://www.holley.com/products/plum...ts/AT981606ERL

Earl's Super Stock hose and fittings, which are push lock, are rated to 250 psi, and does not require any clamps.

https://www.holley.com/brands/earls/...e/super_stock/

Here's an Earl's compression fitting that is female AN -6:

https://www.holley.com/products/plum...ts/AT165106ERL

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[64speed]

Ok answer me a stupid question. I know the barbed section of the push lock you just push the hose onto but how do you secure the fitting to the hose? I mean if I have a length of hose and I want to put an -an fitting on the end of it how does it work

[HWYSTR455]

You lube the fitting, and with an even continuous motion, even pressure, push the hose onto the end of the fitting until it bottoms out. Done. Don't stop as you are pushing it on until it bottoms, once you stop, it's hard to start pushing it again.

https://www.holley.com/brands/earls/...e/super_stock/

Watch the vid, it's cake. No clamp etc is required, it seals, and is good to 250 psi. That's the beauty of it, it's easy. Use a hose or PVC pipe cutter to cut the hose, it makes a square, straight cut. The tool is inexpensive, and can get it at Home Depot.

If you shop the fittings and hose, you will see how inexpensive it is, compared to other stuff. And it's not that much more than doing it any other way.

EDIT: The sleeves are optional, as are the clamps. The clamps are only for areas that are exposed to high heat, which can relax the hose and leak under high pressure. The sleeves are for some a dressing, to make the assembly look better too.

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[Squidward]

Originally Posted by 64speed

Ok answer me a stupid question. I know the barbed section of the push lock you just push the hose onto but how do you secure the fitting to the hose? I mean if I have a length of hose and I want to put an -an fitting on the end of it how does it work

If the fitting is sized right to the hose, it is not coming off unless you want to take it off. And you'll still have to work at it carefully with a knife. I had to do that a couple of times during my install. HWYSTR, good vid link. Lube is your friend.

[455'73inElCamino]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

I see now that the Sniper requires a return line, wasn't sure about that. Soooo, you have to run a return line. So why not run both? Remove the original line, run aluminum, with compression fittings, and regular push lock type hose and fittings. It's not rocket science, and considering what you've accomplished in the past, you're fully capable of doing a fuel system.

You have general examples of running the lines. The Summit Racing aluminum fuel line is rated to 5000 psi, and is inexpensive. 2 roles is less than $50, and easy to bend/run. You can use the regular compression fittings available from any of the AN fitting/hose manufacturers, all the ends will match and look nice. In your case, using 3/8 line and AN 6 fittings is plenty, making it even easier & less expensive than doing 1/2 lines.

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Has anyone used NiCOP for this type of work? Can anyone recommend using it or not using it?

Also, I see that Fitech says NOT to use aluminum line. I just saw it a couple of days ago. IIRC i think it was in the instruction. Not sure why they say to not use it but I suspect it is a liability issue if someone doesn't use it properly.

EDIT:
https://fitechefi.com/products/30004/
in manual on page 3 it says "Fitech does not recommend aluminum fuel lines EVER!"