[GP67]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Replace the terminals on the relay socket, and make sure the relay has good legs on it. Use a good crimper or solder them too.

I will look into how to do this since I've never done it before.

Another question.
I was driving and the car stalled.
I pulled the FP relay and it was too hot to touch, extremely hot.
After letting it cool down the car restarted and drove fine.


What can be causing the relay to get too hot?

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by GP67

Another question.
I was driving and the car stalled.
I pulled the FP relay and it was too hot to touch, extremely hot.
After letting it cool down the car restarted and drove fine.


What can be causing the relay to get too hot?

You have had a popped fuse, a hot relay, and you've had hot (melted) wires. Any one of them could be a localized problem. All of them together make me think the fuel pump is drawing too much current.

At some point you're going to test the amperage as was suggested in post #4.

A typical GM in-tank fuel pump draws less than 7 amps. 5 to 6.5 is fairly common.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by GP67

I will look into how to do this since I've never done it before.

-----


What can be causing the relay to get too hot?

A short in wiring, bad ground, or too small of a gauge wire are common causes. In general, you shouldn't use anything smaller than 14ga, I suggest 12ga.

You can buy sockets, terminals, etc from a multitude of vendors online, or at local electrical supply stores. Some auto parts carry relays and terminals.

http://terminalsupplyco.com/Store/Pr...pc=334+485+008

.

[GP67]

If I start with a amperage test is this the proper way to do it? Will it work?

The gray wire power wire,
I previously cut this wire,
Can I spread the gray wire apart where I rejoined them,
and attach the red lead to one end of the gray wire
and the black lead to the other gray wire,
set my multi-meter to 10 amps,
turn the car on and get a reading on the meter?

I can do this where I spliced the new wiring harness in that came with the pump.

[GP67]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

A short in wiring, bad ground, or too small of a gauge wire are common causes.

Not too sure about the too small gauge of wire. Shurkey has stated in the past about this as well. When I got the car inspected I spoke to a mechanic who has worked on my work vehicles for the past 13 years. I specifically asked him about the wiring harnesses that come with new fuel pumps and the compatability of existing wire in vehicles. He stated the new harnesses are NO problem and has not encountered any electrical problems at all.
I am looking in the area of bad ground or incorrect amperage.
However, I am not a mechanic and wonder if because the fp relay is prone to jerking around over bumps and so forth, it may be possible it is causing an arc of some type. JMO
So I will do an amperage test if the way I have described is a proper way to do it.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by GP67

Can I spread the gray wire apart where I rejoined them,
and attach the red lead to one end of the gray wire
and the black lead to the other gray wire,
set my multi-meter to 10 amps,
turn the car on and get a reading on the meter?

I can do this where I spliced the new wiring harness in that came with the pump.

Yes. The only issue is that your meter is probably fused for 10 amps, and if the pump draws more than that you'll pop the meter fuse.

My meter will handle 20 amps for very short-term loads. It's rated at 10 amps. The fuses are hatefully expensive. No promises on your meter.

I would start and run the vehicle with the meter connected. Use the memory function of your meter if it has one, so you can review the minimum, and especially the maximum and average reading over time.

Originally Posted by GP67

because the fp relay is prone to jerking around over bumps and so forth, it may be possible it is causing an arc of some type.

IF (big IF) the fuel pump relay is tight on all it's terminals, you could bounce that car like a monster truck and not have a problem.

[GP67]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

Yes. The only issue is that your meter is probably fused for 10 amps, and if the pump draws more than that you'll pop the meter fuse.
IF (big IF) the fuel pump relay is tight on all it's terminals, you could bounce that car like a monster truck and not have a problem.

Thanks.. Going to go get the reading now.

The FP relay is very very loose.
Pins 86 and 87 ... I mean as in loose....

[GP67]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

A typical GM in-tank fuel pump draws less than 7 amps. 5 to 6.5 is fairly common.

You called it on the meter. 10 amp fuse.


I have a question though before I do this , I'm going to do it regardless but want to know... Shouldn't I get a reading of no more than 7 amps anyway?

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Poor contact at the relay terminals will make it get hot.

With poor contact at the relay terminals....any testing you do will not be valid.

You've done been through this with rotten wires and the pump not running.

So fix what's 'known broke' first.

Clay

[GP67]

I replaced the relay with a new one. Instead of removing the under-hood fuse box I made 2 metal sleeves for the relay legs to slip into. The relay fits snug. I haven't had any problems since. The new relay doesn't get hot either.
Thanks again for all the input and suggestions, much appreciated.

[GP67]

This car just likes to present new problems.

Gear selector stuck in park.
Button wouldn't depress after engine start.
Shut it off,

depressed shift button,
reached across and started car,
worked fine.

Drove it, parked, shut off,
Same symptom won't depress,

Repeated above procedure and it depresses.

Any ideas?
Thanks

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by GP67

This car just likes to present new problems.

Gear selector stuck in park.
Button wouldn't depress after engine start.

Step on the brake?

Faulty or mis-adjusted brake pedal switch?

[GP67]

Power distribution box under the hood removal procedures needed.
Refresher: 2004 Grand am se 2.2

I'm having trouble removing the box to check the terminals. Pin 30 to the fuel pump has been melting. I checked the harness connections from front to fuel pump and all appears normal. The car is experiencing a relay problem. It starts and runs but after driving it refuses to start. If I replace the fuel pump relay it starts and runs again, BUT, sometimes it will run for days and then won't after I shut it off, I then put in another relay and it starts. I have also used the same relay that I previously removed at times and it starts.
I put it in the shop and they said the terminals in the relay slots were loose and they pushed the wires back in place. However, I have inspected the box and slots and it appears (due to rust I removed from the box slide guides) this box was never removed for repair. Also the pin slots look exactly the same as when I brought it to them. Basically I believe they spread the relay pins, put in the relay and it ran for 90 bucks.
So, I need to remove the box myself and do the job. So far I've disconnected the battery and removed the air filter box.
I can't get the power distribution box to slide forward.
Is there anything else holding it in place?
Is this a two piece box that I can remove the upper half without removing the entire box?
Either way it doesn't matter as I want to do it correctly and make the repair.
As usual, Any and All guidance is greatly appreciated.

[TedRamAirII]

Melting connector= loose connection. The connector in the housing isnt gripping the terminal of the relay. You are on track. Dont know if the box can be taken apart, and repaired, these newer GM trucks sure cant. Maybe find a box in a salvage yard if yours cant be taken apart. Should be a release tab underneath. Maybe get a mirror and look.

[Schurkey]

Just for giggles...How much current is the fuel pump drawing?

Six, maybe seven amps I could believe.

[GP67]

I got the box power distribution box apart.

Looking at this wiring schematic it appears there are only 3 different color wires for the fuel pump relay.

Gray
Green with White
Black

Am I reading this correctly?

[GP67]

Post #148
First picture
Gray wire
Green/White wire
Black wire

I only see three wires to and from fuel pump relay.
Am I reading this correctly.
I am trying to locate them in the power distribution box to make a repair.

[Schurkey]

There have to be four connections. They don't all have to be wires.

Power input to the relay
Power output to the pump

signal input from the ECM that powers the electromagnetic relay coil
signal ground from the relay coil

Put another way, power through the relay to the pump
power through the relay to activate the electromagnetic coil.

Wild guess: The ground connection isn't done with a wire, there's some buss-bar or something.

Beyond that, I can't read the diagram well enough to determine wire colors.

[GP67]

After getting the box apart and not being able to determine which connection went to the relay. I took a small blade and squeezed the terminal connection close together. The relay post #30 fits snug now.
The car would not even prime the pump prior to doing so.
As soon as put the relay back in after making the tight connection it fired up on first try.
#30 pin is the problem and only problem it had.
I will bring it to my usual mechanic at some point and get it repaired once and for all.

A different problem that has been ongoing:
My rpm speed drops to 600 still. My sensors are fine and I have zero codes.
Motor mounts and tranny mounts are fine. Throttle body is clean. AIC is good.
I can't understand why my normal operating rpms at idle in neutral are 650-700 but in gear stopped drop to 600. If I use the ac or heat the rpms drop as well.
Been fighting this one for a long time and it's really irratating.
I'm at a loss.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by GP67

My rpm speed drops to 600 still. My sensors are fine and I have zero codes.
Motor mounts and tranny mounts are fine. Throttle body is clean. AIC is good.
I can't understand why my normal operating rpms at idle in neutral are 650-700 but in gear stopped drop to 600. If I use the ac or heat the rpms drop as well.

I'd be looking at the IAC system. What is the idle RPM supposed to be?

A scan tool for access to live data would be helpful.