[Va68goat]

I paid Butlers and had it shipped to Paul. I certainly didn't pick it out because as I said before, I didnt even know what a harmonic balancer was!

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[gtofreek]

Your right Joe, I was thinking about another customer that sent a balancer with his engine. Point is, I did not suggest a Romac balancer. I never would have even thought about suggesting a Romac because we just don't use Romac anything. Not there there is anything wrong with them. As far as I know they have good quality parts, we just use other stuff. Someone else must have suggested it to you and I do seem to remember a call from you asking about it, and if I agreed it was strictly off of their reputation, not because I use them. The only Romac parts I have ever installed were customer furnished, and it's only been a handful. I did not realize it would be several inch's smaller than stock and wouldn't fit. Had to grind a bunch to get it to fit. But that was with the other crank, This crank may have had a slightly different dimension or the timing cover not being dowel pinned may be in a slightly different position than it was originally. At low idle however, the engine when loping will move the crank back and forth, then when revved up, the crank stabilizes and the crank quits walking front to back, so I could see it making this noise. As I said before, i checked everything very carefully inside that engine and I am confident the noise is external, and not internal. So lets see what happens when he fixes the balancer spacing.

[HWYSTR455]

I had a Romac once. Once. I had to hone the inside in order to get it to install on the crank snout, and when I called Butler about it, they said that's common with those. Ok, I said, and threw the thing on the bench and ordered a different one.

Think the last one I bought was a Pioneer, but have used Powerbond and PRWs before with no issues.

EDIT: I only use SFI balancers. Can't recall which one it was, but I had an issue with one brand that didn't seat all the way with an OE A/C pulley.

.

[Va68goat]

HWYSTR455,
After further inspection of this one, it wasn't hitting anything. Paul clearenced it enough. We may add a little more clearance. There isn't anything wrong with this one so I guess we'll keep using it. I checked out the Butlers website and they don't sell this one anymore. My receipt says it is SFI rated though.

[Formulas]

What you might do for a test is change out the balancer all together beg borrow or steal a good old sticker throw it on for a test and remember to torque properly

Or warm up engine take off balancer start engine for a very short time just idle and listen

You could do this with a cold engine as well it would idle more steady warm is all

.

[chiphead]

I don't think you want to run it without a balancer. The bottom timing gear might walk, since its held in place by the balancer snout.

[Va68goat]

Formulas,
We did run the engine with a stock balancer and the knocking noise was still present. I don't think we are going to run this engine without a balancer though.

I spoke to Paul last night and I think we are back on track. Frustration may have gotten the best of both of us but I think we are headed in the right direction now. I'm hopeful this will get resolved soon.

[Formulas]

It will work for a short time enough time to hear the noise or not, I have already done it in 1976 watched oil spurt out from front bearing parting line
The chains go over the teeth so the chain doesn't walk same thing will keep bottom gear on some common sense goes along way here no reving to the moon just turn key listen 4 or 5 seconds turn it off

.

[Va68goat]

Well, not too much to update. Last week the tech finished diagnosing the engine and it was determined to be internal / mechanical. I've been texting with Jeff and I'm just waiting to see what the next step is. I don't think it's a good idea to send the engine back to Arizona so Jeff said he may fly Paul out here. I would hate for Paul to lose time away from the shop to fly out here because time is money. There is a local shop (C&C auto performance) that I'm confident that could do this job for the same amount of money or less as it would be for Paul to fly out here, replace gaskets, oil, parts if needed, time away from the shop etc. The tech that diagnosed my engine has known the guys from C&C for decades. Jeff said he's going to be speaking to C&C (the same shop that inspected the heads). Hope this happens soon!

[Va68goat]

Ok..my friends are brutal. My buddy that has been helping me diagnose my motor for two years has been working on an old Plymouth Fury police car. He just installed the 440 motor that he rebuilt and he sent me this video when he started it up for the first time! This car hobby is brutal. It's pretty funny though!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXqk0DovYcA

[Holeshot71]

Sounds just like an exhaust leak!

[Cardo]

Aw man! That's cold! But funny!!!

[Va68goat]

Holeshot71,
Anything but the exhaust theory again! Hahaha

Cardo,
Yeah...That was pretty good. I was surprised that he held the rhythm that well for that long. He had it almost sounding like my engine...Hahaha.

[MarkS57]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

Holeshot71,
Anything but the exhaust theory again! Hahaha

Years ago I saw a V6 Fiero for sale on Craigslist. These things are notorious for the front exhaust manifold cracking. When I called the guy about the car, I asked if it had any exhaust leaks (because replacing that d*mn manifold was a gigantic pain). He said it had an..."exhaust tap".....

[Va68goat]

MarkS57,
We've checked for an exhaust manifold leak several times over the years. I wish that was the problem. This knocking noise has been internal / mechanical for years now...thats confirmed at this point. I think we're finally headed in the right direction now. Hopefully this problem will be fixed soon and I can finally enjoy this car!

[MarkS57]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

MarkS57,
We've checked for an exhaust manifold leak several times over the years. I wish that was the problem. This knocking noise has been internal / mechanical for years now...thats confirmed at this point. I think we're finally headed in the right direction now. Hopefully this problem will be fixed soon and I can finally enjoy this car!

Trust me, I don't think yours was an exhaust problem either. The idea of such a thing just brought back an old memory. I guess the point was that this particular Fiero owner was trying his very best to say the thing didn't have a cracked exhaust manifold saying "oh, its just an exhaust tap".

Hope you get to have your local shop get this thing going for you soon!

[MarkS57]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

MarkS57,
We've checked for an exhaust manifold leak several times over the years. I wish that was the problem. This knocking noise has been internal / mechanical for years now...thats confirmed at this point. I think we're finally headed in the right direction now. Hopefully this problem will be fixed soon and I can finally enjoy this car!

Hi trust me, I don't think you have an exhaust problem either. The thought of such a thing just brought back an old memory of someone trying to minimize a cracked exhaust manifold by calling the noise it made an exhaust tap. Was original if nothing else.

Hope they agree to have your local guy get this thing going for you soon!

[jonmachota78]

I've been following this thread since the beginning. Been trying to keep quiet with so many knowledgeable guys weighing in but, since the beginning I've thought this sounds like a lifter. I know the lifters have been replaced but that doesn't mean that there is not another bad lifter. I don't think the noise is coming from the reciprocating assembly, it sounds like valve train frequency. And has from the beginning. I have personally replaced new defective hydraulic roller lifters with defective new hydraulic roller lifters just to have to do it yet again. Take that for what it's worth. My 2 cents. Hopefully this gets figured out soon. Jon

[jonmachota78]

One more thought. If in fact there are no bad lifters, then maybe there is something about one of the lifter bores preventing adequate oil supply/pressure from getting to one of the lifters, or maybe there's something about a lifter bore preventing the lifter from being able to HOLD pressure.

[Va68goat]

jonmachota78,
You have really good points. When we replaced the lifters last time, I sent the original lifters to Paul. He inspected them and said they were fine. Some guys have mentioned lifters before but when they hear the engine in person and use a mechanics stethoscope, we get a signature from the distributor area. When you look at everything as a whole...bad distributor bushing, the damage to the original distributor gear, the witness marks on the oil pump shaft and now that the 2nd distributor gear with only 2 hours of run time already has uneven wear, it really points to something else...I think. Thats interesting about the lifter bore though. Hopefully that will get looked at soon. Me and my friends are pretty much done diagnosing this motor so whomever looks at it, whether it's Paul or the local shop, they may want to look at that.