[gtorich]

Not sure if the one pic is of a stock spring or not, seems the two ends are different than the spring i bought which are even...........i did like a few suggested dont buy a cheap spring, paid 200 for this one from eaton springs and it doesnt look like the one i took out.

Waiting for my spindles to come in, so i tried a few practice runs getting the spring in, using a 3 ft crow bar i can get it in, i clock it right on top, but its always off on the bottom, the pic with the red line is where the stop is on the bottom arm, and im always short of that mark about a inch or so...........now if i index it at the bottom it wont sit right on the top.

Can i buy a spring that looks like the one i pulled out, cant seem to see any that look like that one.

Was told by eaton tech, the spring will move where it needs to be, seems to me if the spring moves to the stop on the bottom, the top is way off.

Any tips on this deal

Rich

[HWYSTR455]

The top of the spring should be flat, there's no clocking involved. The frame rail is flat, with the 'tabs' bent downward to keep the spring in place.

The bottom part of the spring should be @ 1/4" from what you call the 'stop', but it's really not a stop, it's to compensate for the end not being flat.

If that end is not close to the locator, you will have issues getting the ride height correct. The further away it is from the end, the more psi it applies. Once they are in there, they do move some during compression, but return once it goes back to relaxed height.

Those springs look way too tall to me. They are going to be loaded when assembled. And that's why there was so much compression required to install them. Usually, with the correct free height and rate, you don't need a spring compressor. You can use the weight of the car and a floor jack on the lower control arm to R&R.

Some spring manufacturers add more free height to increase the rate, which is a poor approach. The free height should be a fixed value for the application. Rate is changed via the wire diameter.

The amount of cost really doesn't apply to the 'cheap' spring condition, it's a reference to the tolerances of the spring construction. (free height, load height, rate, etc)

I will never use an Eaton spring, fyi. And I see many that have issues with them. I've seen them be different free heights in the same box/pair, and rates are all over the board.


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[HWYSTR455]

Landrum coil spring tech overview:

https://landrumspring.com/technical/...l-information/

Excerpt:

"Designing a spring also requires considering the wire size, O.D., I.D., free height, compressed height and static loads that are to be expected on each spring."

"Pitch is the distance between the wires on any given coil-spring. Coil springs wound with an inconsistent pitch will produce an inconsistent rate."

Landrum 5" Coil Springs for 64-72 A-Body:

https://landrumspring.com/products/c...-coil-springs/

Instead of trying to find a spring from that list, GW is a much easier approach. Doug knows which work for what you are trying to do. In general, there are 3 to 5 springs that work for street & street/autocross A-bodies.

EDIT: I can't recall at the moment if the springs should be 5" or 5.5" . Measure yours and post please.

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[HWYSTR455]

There are basically 2 free height springs for the 64-72 A-Bodies, 8", and 9.5" . If your spring is taller than that, they are the wrong springs.


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[HWYSTR455]

Which lower control arms are those? Most aftermarket ones for 64-72 A-Bodies have the urethane insert that has the spring end locator/pocket.


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[Sirrotica]

Agree, the top on most replacement springs is ground flat parallel to the same plane the upper frame bucket has, 90 degrees from the axis of the spring. The lower pigtail is the only one that has a location position in the lower A arm bucket. The design is that the lower pigtail is fixed in the lower A arm, and the top can twist on the flat frame if necessary. With a sharp edge on the upper end it will not be able to twist as the OEM design. From working on a grease rack at a Pontiac dealership when I first started my trade, I know for sure that the upper end of the spring does twist under compression, and rebound, because we had more than a few new Pontiacs that we had to spray the upper spring mount with ATF so the creak while driving the car would cease because of customer complaints of noise. BTW, it works perfectly to remedy that creaking.

This new spring does seem rather long for a stock replacement spring, and for Eaton to make the claim they build springs just like OEM, is pretty ludicrous, when standing next to the OEM and one end doesn't match the OEM.

I myself believe they may have sent you an incorrect part, and their tech guy wants you to try to use that part is probably going to end up in an unhappy customer.......

Doing the job twice, isn't my idea of good customer service, especially considering how much labor is involved in changing GM front coil springs. Doing the job once is hard enough, doing it twice seems foolish, IMO.

Myself, I've installed a a bunch of GM springs over the years, I would be hesitant to install that set with an incorrect upper mount, because they're going to be cocked from center on the upper end, making the spring bow under tension. I might consider another source, if they won't supply you with a better match to OEM design. Not grinding the upper end flat saves them a step in labor, and costs them less to manufacture the part. I'm certain that making springs saving on one labor step isn't reflected in their end user price.

I've never installed Eaton springs, but would avoid them if they can't, or won't, supply you with a properly designed OEM style upper mounting end.

I just looked at the Landrum link above supplied by HWYSTAR, they specify that their springs are ground flat on one end, and have one end with a pigtail, This design is exactly what I'd be looking for in my own spring selection. The list price was only $69.95 also. Sounds like, winner winner chicken dinner, compared to what you got from Eaton.

I did a search on PY under Eaton springs, lots of dissatisfied users here on PY, buyer beware!!!

I know MOOG hasn't been one of the top choices on PY for springs, but having installed dozens of them over the years, I would choose theirs over Eaton........... At least they have proper ends on them.

[1968GTO421]

Another member here recommended Coil Spring Specialties as they can do you a stock spring (OEM style) or one with a higher rate for performance use. They seem to have a good rep on this and other forums I'm on.

http://coilsprings.com/classic.aspx

[HWYSTR455]

I've heard issues with leaning from Coil Spring Specialties, but I have no personal experience with them.

Landrum is pretty tops. They provide a spring 'dyno' readout of their' springs, have extremely close tolerances, and all American stuff. Pricing is on-par with others, $69.95ea for the Gold series, $99.99ea for Elite series. But you do need to know what you're ordering.

They have tech info in their' catalog on how to choose/order a spring, but again, you kind of need to know what you're doing. If you have an existing spring, you can always send it to them to dyno, and you can use that as a basis for ordering.

Might not make sense for a hobby car, but if you're tired of dealing with crappy tolerances, it's worth the effort. You can always call tech, too.


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[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by 1968GTO421

Another member here recommended Coil Spring Specialties as they can do you a stock spring (OEM style) or one with a higher rate for performance use. They seem to have a good rep on this and other forums I'm on.

http://coilsprings.com/classic.aspx

Yes, excellent service and their springs have always been spot on for me. Even when I throw them curve balls like fiberglass hoods and such. They know how to compensate for things like that. They have also been the preferred place to go for the 1st gen Z28 crowd which has a special ride height compared to other 1st gens that other spring manufactures just can't seem to get right.

I've never been disappointed with Coil Spring Specialties.

[gtorich]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Which lower control arms are those? Most aftermarket ones for 64-72 A-Bodies have the urethane insert that has the spring end locator/pocket.


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Ok, just measured the springs i took out of the car..17 1/4 long, the new springs are 16 1/2 long, both are almost 5 " wide........The spring from eaton is the # MC 1242, and i ordered the 1" below stock..........i assumed someone cut the springs on my car because it always sat quite a bit lower than other 66 Gto"s ive seen.

The lower control arm is a UMI arm, pic is without the insert and with the insert, they said you can use it either way.

Now neither of my two springs old & new do not have a flat top to them........

Are you sure of that spring should be 8" long, if i push the lower arm up against the bump stop and measure looks to be at least 10-11 " to the top of the frame. ????

Another reason i went with a 1" lower was everytime i read of someone getting a stock spring they had to cut it because the car sat too high.

Im sending a pic of my upper perch, looks like a little stop to me by the little hole right after it.

When i bought the spring from eaton they said no returns on 1" lowering springs, only on stock height stuff............will check again with them, as usual im out some bucks, seems thats the way i roll lately.

Hopefully someone could take a pic of a stock spring they bought with the flat top, and give me a measurment of the length.

Thanks for the help guys, another lesson learned the hard way for me.

Rich

[gtorich]

Just to clarify, on the pic above right where i have the chalk mark there is a dent there and if i turn the spring into this, it stops there.

Rich

[TB1]

Originally Posted by gtorich

Just to clarify, on the pic above right where i have the chalk mark there is a dent there and if i turn the spring into this, it stops there.

Rich

Rich

The dent in the frame is the upper locator for the spring so when they are installed rotate the spring until the end of the upper coil rests there. The lower end of the spring will end up wherever it does. I'd use the insulters supplied by UMI. Also call and ask about which way the springs are to be installed looks like the coils are closer together on one end ,I would bet that would be the top side of the spring. Regarding the ends not being flat should not matter my stock ones were not but the aftermarket BMR lowering springs were.
Good Luck
Trevor

[Sirrotica]

Watch this video, tells how to identify top and bottom of spring and also illustrates the flat ground end. It also tells you how to determine how much of the spring you need to cut with a tape measure if your ride height is too high. He tells you cutting with a tape measure is much more accurate that just cutting 1/2 a coil, or 1 coil:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHPo...WestSuspension

[gtorich]

Ive seen that vid before Brad, just went out to measure my springs again, no flat spot for the top and no tight whine for either end, they are both about 1/4" apart.

If someone had an old original 66 spring laying around could you get me a measurement on that one...........im on a fixed income and cant afford 3-4 sets of springs trying to get this right.

Just wanted to say thanks for all the help im getting on this, you can see i need it. lol

Rich

[Kenth]

I´m using the MOOG5244 OEM replacement front springs on my 1966 GTO since 25 years or so and they are still fine in every way.
Tangential both ends as they should be 1964-67 (1968-72 uses one square end and one tagiental end).

Note: Upper end of coil spring must be visible in frame pocket hole at upper control arm shaft at installation.

5244 specs are: inside dia. 3.630", bar dia. 0.640", install height 11.00", load 2124.0 lbs, spring rate 315.0 lbs and free height 17.75".

HTH

[HWYSTR455]

Ok, looks like 64-67 are different than 68-72 springs, I'm more familiar with the 68-72s, so I would have to do the homework on those. Not sure of the free height. I was going by the offerings by Landrum, but they do offer other lengths, 11 and 12 appear to be 'hobby stock'. They also make to order. I'm fairly certain GW uses Landrum, though suspect they grind off the markings, and they do have them powder coated. Fairly certain Doug does his own specs, all from personal testing.

As for GW's offerings, you have to call them. They do have some listed, but the way they list them is not complete, and confusing. If you look at the home/default page, all the way to the right is a drop-down for springs-spacers, but like I mentioned, it's best to call. I'm guessing it would be something like the s-705, but you just have to call.

That hole in the upper mount area does appear to be for locating the spring, I can think of no other reason to have that there. But just to say, if the spring isn't made correctly, both ends will never line up, and even made correctly, the ends would have to be a particular distance from the end of the locator to allow for travel.

You can take springs with the same 'specs' from 5 different places, and none of them will be the same. The two springs from the same manufacturer in the same box will be different. The general allowable tolerances is 5-8% some as high as 10%. So the specs don't mean jack for the most part. You can increase the rate in use by using a taller spring, begin at a more compressed height when installed, and the in use rate will be the same as a shorter spring with a higher rating.

Some manufacturers even overshoot the 'spec', because a higher rate will have less of a chance of being noticed in operation than a lower rate spec.

Back in the 80s, on my 2nd gen 'bird, I went through a ton of off the shelf springs trying to find a good set. I had a graveyard of springs. Most people just get close and are ok with it, because they have no reference.

Anyway, to get to the point, I just tell folks to go to GW. And you have to call them. At $170 a set for fronts, it's inexpensive to get what you want, and they do everything from OE to race.

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