[ignaro]

Hey everyone--

I've got a '66 Tempest with a Chevy 350. Before I fix the 350 with a more powerful Pontiac, I'd like to do a 4-wheel disc brake conversion. Since that would require new spindles and wheels, I'd like to do a full autocross-ready suspension overhaul at the same time.
What brands would you recommend? Since I don't have the money to guess-and-test, I'm partial to doing a full system from a single manufacturer. I don't see a full system with disc conversion from Hotchkis. What other brands have you all had success with? Is there a mix-n-match system you would recommend?
I like my stock ride height. I could lower it 1" or just the nose 1"-- both looks are cool to me, I'm more concerned with daily driver and autocross performance.

Can I get away with buying big block springs with my sbc350? I'll be swapping out for a 400 or 455 within the next two years at most. If not, can I get a system that just needs stiffer springs when I upgrade the engine?

Thanks a ton, please provide pictures or links whenever possible.

~Connor

[Tom Vaught]

[QUOTE=ignaro;5494549]Hey everyone--

I've got a '66 Tempest with a Chevy 350. Before I fix the 350 with a more powerful Pontiac, I'd like to do a 4-wheel disc brake conversion. Since that would require new spindles and wheels, I'd like to do a full autocross-ready suspension overhaul at the same time.
What brands would you recommend? Since I don't have the money to guess-and-test, I'm partial to doing a full system from a single manufacturer. I don't see a full system with disc conversion from Hotchkis. What other brands have you all had success with? Is there a mix-n-match system you would recommend?
I like my stock ride height. I could lower it 1" or just the nose 1"-- both looks are cool to me, I'm more concerned with daily driver and autocross performance.

Can I get away with buying big block springs with my sbc350? I'll be swapping out for a 400 or 455 within the next two years at most. If not, can I get a system that just needs stiffer springs when I upgrade the engine?

Thanks a ton, please provide pictures or links whenever possible.

(C5 C6 Corvette type Brakes and Suspension parts. ATX Spindles 17" plus wheels required)

http://www.kore3.com/products.php?cat=11

BMR Steer Arms 64-72 Chevelle for ATS/ATX Spindles

AFX Performance Spindles 1964-1972 Chevelle, A Body

http://www.speedtechperformance.com/...rod/prd136.htm

Detroit Speed Inc. (Former GM Suspension Engineers started this company years ago.)

DETROIT SPEED, INC.
185 McKENZIE RD.
MOORESVILLE, NC 28115

PHONE: 704.662.3272
FAX: 704.731.0989
EMAIL: INFO@DETROITSPEED.COM

https://www.detroitspeed.com/1964-19...sion-pg-1.html

Tom V.

[rohrt]

I would second Kore3 for the brakes and I vote for this for the suspension:

http://www.ridetech.com/store/streetgrip/

[Chris65LeMans]

Kore3 set me up with some discs that fit in my 15" steelies- if that interests you.

I heard good things about UMI, so used their a arms in the front. I used PMT Fabrication in the rear - it just looked beefier.

[Nicks67GTO]

-What kind of budget are we talking about? You can go full IRS Roadster Shop chassis for $45K or the new Ridetech streetgrip for $2K and everything in between.

-I did the SC&C stage II package/ Kore3 Z51 brakes. I've been auto Xing. It's a blast. You will not regret it.

- If your interested I have a build thread for my 67 GTO in my signature below. If you have any questions feel free to ask!

[Nicks67GTO]

I shoukd add these two points....

-DO NOT buy those cheap Chinese eBay arms. Just dont. Cheap steel, untested, bad ball joints the list goes on.

-Whatever you do, go with 1 company and stick it out. Mixing and matching random components can result in poor performance and ride quality.

I always recommend you call Ridetech, SC&C, UMI, Detroit Speed. Price out their packages, ask them every question you can. I'm very happy with SC&C. Marc has the best customer service in the industry and has helped me a lot along the way

[Scarebird]

What size rims are you planning on using? That more than $$$ determines what you run.

[HWYSTR455]

Very true on the size wheels, and budget too.

Hands-down, the ATS/SpeedTech AFX spindles are the premier choice, and although they are expensive, you save money on big brake kits, since they allow use of C5/C6 brakes, and any upgrade kits made for those cars too.

SpeedTech makes great suspension stuff, but my personal choice is Global West, who originally designed the control arms with ATS for the AFX setups. They also nail the stance every time, and are closer to getting ride heights right than almost all. They're control arms I feel are the best out there, most ridged, and high quality. Again, the geometry improvements are some of the finest out there, if not the finest.

You can use 'big block' springs with the small block, but you don't want to. The ride, and ride height will be way off. Front springs are only like $100-$150 a set, if you have the money, just buy 2 sets. You can sell the small block ones when you switch engines, and reclaim some investment.

The big problem with doing a disc upgrade on a-bodies is that there is a shortage of good uprights, or 'spindles'. Drop spindles are junk, the Chinese replacement ones are hit or miss at best, and good used ones are getting tougher to find. Really, if you're going to do it, the only choice is the AFX uprights. Period.

Whatever you do, don't even consider the CPP knock-offs. And that's all I have to say about that.

There are upgrades to disc brakes using the OE drum spindles, Kore3 and others sell the brackets, and you can source the rest at a vendor/supplier of your choosing. Not a bad option, but you don't reap the benefits of the suspension improvements, which means later down the road, when you want the handling improvements, you will pretty much have to start over.

.

[Tom Vaught]

I copied this info from a post in the "Pro Touring" Forum.

http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/3...C-amp-C-or-ATS

Quote: However, I can't really decide which one to go with between the SC&C Stage II setup, or the ATS tall spindles. I dug through all manner of details trying to find if one had any clear advantage, and here's what I came up with:

(okay, I tried to make a table but it isn't working)
Cost:
SC&C Stage 2 cost: 719.90 (rubber bushing version)
ATS cost w/ steering arms: 810.00
Advantage: SC&C (maybe ATS if there's a GP)

UCAs:
SC&C: included
ATS: Not included
Advantage: SC&C

Ball Joints:
SC&C: Rebuildable Howe
ATS: Stock GM
Advantage: SC&C (kinda -- rebuildable vs ease of parts availability)

Benefits:
SC&C: Camber curve, improved bumpsteer, improved roll center height
ATS: Same, plus ABS sensor
Advantage: ATS, if I can find any use for the ABS sensor.

Brake Brackets:
SC&C: Not included. Use conversion or stock brakes.
ATS: C5/C6 bracket built-in
Advantage: ATS

Other considerations:
SC&C: Stock cast-iron spindle
ATS: Aluminum spindle, probably less unsprung weight.

Are there any other factors I've not contemplated? I've purchased too much front suspension stuff already -- GW UCAs, Speedtech caliper brackets, C5 front calipers, B-body spindles, etc... so not having to buy more stuff would be a bonus.

On their own merits, not counting the differences in brake mounting, do either of these really outshine the other, or is it just a matter of preference?

If I've got the GW uppers, can I save money on the SC&C setup by just getting the upper balljoints to fit them instead of the set with the new uppers? Similarly, will the GW uppers work with the ATS spindles? Is using the GW parts a bad idea all around anyway, even if they would work?

The usage of the car would be primarily as a spirited daily driver, maybe it'll eventually see a track and maybe it won't. Both of these setups might be overkill, but something better than the stock A-body setup is needed. Quote.

Quote: Well, thje C5 calipers will mount right up and rotors are $25 each (more if you mant slotted, xdrilled, etc) so the ATS uprights seem to be the choice right there. The AFX spindles will work with the GW UCAs (IIRC). Sounds like you have everything you need to make the AFX spindles work without a lot of work or $ into brakes. And rotor replacement costs are far less for the C5 stuff as many people 'track n toss' rotors they are so inexpensive. Quote.

Quote: I have a Chevelle with each... the Stage II+ has the clear price advantage for a mild car with stock brakes, or if you already have upgraded brakes for your stock spindles.

Once you factor in the cost of upgrading to big brakes (C5 vette) to your stock spindles, the AFX spindle setup doesn't seem that expensive anymore.

AFX also has some geometry and weight advantages. Quote

So you get the idea that a bit of time spent on that forum reading about Spindles and Brakes might save you some serious time and $$$$.

Tom V.

[Nicks67GTO]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Very true on the size wheels, and budget too.

Hands-down, the ATS/SpeedTech AFX spindles are the premier choice, and although they are expensive, you save money on big brake kits, since they allow use of C5/C6 brakes, and any upgrade kits made for those cars too.

SpeedTech makes great suspension stuff, but my personal choice is Global West, who originally designed the control arms with ATS for the AFX setups. They also nail the stance every time, and are closer to getting ride heights right than almost all. They're control arms I feel are the best out there, most ridged, and high quality. Again, the geometry improvements are some of the finest out there, if not the finest.

You can use 'big block' springs with the small block, but you don't want to. The ride, and ride height will be way off. Front springs are only like $100-$150 a set, if you have the money, just buy 2 sets. You can sell the small block ones when you switch engines, and reclaim some investment.

The big problem with doing a disc upgrade on a-bodies is that there is a shortage of good uprights, or 'spindles'. Drop spindles are junk, the Chinese replacement ones are hit or miss at best, and good used ones are getting tougher to find. Really, if you're going to do it, the only choice is the AFX uprights. Period.

Whatever you do, don't even consider the CPP knock-offs. And that's all I have to say about that.

There are upgrades to disc brakes using the OE drum spindles, Kore3 and others sell the brackets, and you can source the rest at a vendor/supplier of your choosing. Not a bad option, but you don't reap the benefits of the suspension improvements, which means later down the road, when you want the handling improvements, you will pretty much have to start over.

.

If you do the SC&C stage II and do the tall upper and lower ball joints and stock spindles, you get the same static alignment specs that would with the AFX spindle package and bump steer is taken care of. The advantage to the AFX spindle is the dynamic "under the curve" specs and the bearing hub is way stronger than the stock GM hub bearings. Eventually Ill be upgrading to them but ill be damned if 1400 bucks isnt hard to swallow for spindles. Though I would have saved $500 bucks on brackets, hardware and hubs on my kore 3 setup had I just ate it in the first place and bought them. If you are using the Kore 3 stuff these spindles effectively cost 900 extra bucks when all is said and done and you have a much stronger part.

Brakes are another thing to consider. A budget needs to be set and decisions can then be made. I did the C6 Z51 Kore3 and 02' F body rear brakes which are effectively the exact same thing as C6 rears. In terms of big brakes, these are easily the best bang for the buck. Again there are lots of details and pics in my build thread if youre curious. You can do anything from stock D52 TRSD brakes al the way to 6 piston 14' 4 wheel Baer brakes, though you better sit down before you price those out.

The big thing to remember about brake kits is that the fronts may end up offset a bit and on the front of your 66, a 1/4" can mean the difference between problems and care free driving. You need to have your brake kit picked out before you buy wheels so your measurements are spot on.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Nicks67GTO

...The big thing to remember about brake kits is that the fronts may end up offset a bit and on the front of your 66, a 1/4" can mean the difference between problems and care free driving. You need to have your brake kit picked out before you buy wheels so your measurements are spot on.

Certainly some truth to that, but one correction: The AFX spindles do not push the wheel out/increase track width.

I may be wrong on this point, I was under the impression that the tall ball joint config doesn't INCREASE bump steer over OE, but it doesn't improve it either. The AFX setup is near-zero bump steer.

The bearing packs are a big consideration, if you push your car, like in autocross comp for example, you need to check your wheel bearing frequently. The F/B spindle swap config I had on several A bodies required repacking as often as 3k miles, and replacement around 15k-20k, at most.

.

[Nicks67GTO]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Certainly some truth to that, but one correction: The AFX spindles do not push the wheel out/increase track width.

I may be wrong on this point, I was under the impression that the tall ball joint config doesn't INCREASE bump steer over OE, but it doesn't improve it either. The AFX setup is near-zero bump steer.

The bearing packs are a big consideration, if you push your car, like in autocross comp for example, you need to check your wheel bearing frequently. The F/B spindle swap config I had on several A bodies required repacking as often as 3k miles, and replacement around 15k-20k, at most.

.

The AFX spindles don't but Tobins Kore3 hubs narrow it 1/4" from a stock D52 type setup

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Certainly some truth to that, but one correction: The AFX spindles do not push the wheel out/increase track width.

I may be wrong on this point, I was under the impression that the tall ball joint config doesn't INCREASE bump steer over OE, but it doesn't improve it either. The AFX setup is near-zero bump steer.

The bearing packs are a big consideration, if you push your car, like in autocross comp for example, you need to check your wheel bearing frequently. The F/B spindle swap config I had on several A bodies required repacking as often as 3k miles, and replacement around 15k-20k, at most.

.

The later "Tall Spindle" Factory Spindle (1 LE, Big Car, F-Bird, etc) vs the short 64 style Drum brake spindle) DOES move the wheel centerline outward a bit. Enough to where I was worried on the 64 fender ay the lower edge if I would have proper tire clearance.

The bearings are different on the 64 style spindle vs the later Tall Spindle (there is one year where the same bearing as the early cars) was the same 78-79 time period.

Tom V.

The KEY WORD from the OP was "Autocross" and typically the better the parts you put on the car the less failures you have down the road.

Tom V.

[Big Injun]

I spent some time yesterday with my friend Doug Norrdin, owner of Global West Suspension (http://www.globalwest.net/). IMO, he is the only shop that builds and sells it all!

They have just introduced their own tall spindle that works with Bear and Willwood brakes. The spindle and brake kits will hit the internet in the next couple of days.

His testbed is his own '65 GTO that runs the autocross in the same time as the new Corvette. Here is a view from the front seat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9Yhb2pEbAw

Call Doug and get the best!