[i4abuygto]

Please give your opinions and ideas
I have a 67 GTO HO convertible that has a stock AC system that hasn’t worked in 30 years and in the restoration I want to get the AC system working good.
Currently, the bezel, gauges and AC ducts are out so only the evaporator / heater / fan box are still mounted to the firewall.
I have been advised by some to retrofit the stock system to 134a and been told by others it won’t cool as good as Vintage Air or Classic
I will need to move forward acquiring the parts that I need to fix the stock system or purchasing aftermarket


This is what I have that is all untested
Everything from the POA valve back to behind the dash / I have all vacuum canisters and lines that may need to be replaced /
hoses were cut after POA valve going forward in engine bay
I have an NOS condenser for 67 in box new.
I have stock compressor used with unknown condition needs to be repaired replaced or upgraded
I have wiring through firewall to fixtures on air box and vacuum lines. Vacuum lines probably need to be replaced but not sure.
I have all stock duct work and vents behind dash

What I will need to get stock system working is new POA valve, drier and hose kit and new or refabbed compressor. Basically, everything forward to condenser.
Evaporator is still mounted with condition unknown.
New AC wiring harness for engine compartment to connect to AC controller and wiring harness under hood for 67 HO/Ram Air with AC
New heater core as the shape of existing is unknown

Questions for all of you

Am I better off spending for aftermarket like Vintage Air or Classic Air Then spending to fix stock?

If I purchase Vintage or Classic Can I use my NOS Condenser and eliminate it from a new aftermarket kit at purchase?

With an after market kit do I get a new heater core?

With aftermarket do I eliminate all stock electric and vacuum lines?


If I stay stock can I upgrade to a new higher volume compressor?
Recommendations on Compressor?

Do I need to test the stock evaporator or replace?


Cost is a concern but more “bang for the buck” is more important

I heard that with the aftermarket the new duct work takes up a lot of space behind the dash.

What am I missing?

Stock? Vintage Air? Classic Air?
Please give your opinions on all pros and Cons

This will be a driver and I want it to be cost effective, efficient, and comfortable

Please comment

Thank you
Mark

I also posted this in the heating cooling section

[fyrffytr1]

When I restored the A/C on my 67 I went with Classic Auto Air for everything under the hood. The new condenser was a cross flow versus the old stock down flow one but I can't really tell any difference. The POA valve was reconfigured to use R-134. The compressor was the new S-6 made of aluminum and it is a piece of CRAP in my opinion. In less than one season of use the front bearing went out and the only replacement was a China made one and it went out within a year. The only advantage of the S-6 over the A-6 is the weight. The s-6 weighs half of what the A-6 does. I kept all the original ducting as well as the evaporator. Take it to a radiatotor shop and see if they can test it. I "tested"mine by securing rubber hose to the inlet and outlet with clamps then submerging it in a tub of water while applying air pressure. It didn't leak so I reused it.
I figure you are going for a stock look so I would go with an A-6 but keep an eye on the front seal in it. I plan on going with a new Sanden style compressor when I get to it. If you talk to the folks at Classic ask them about the compressor bearing. Maybe it has been fixed or maybe I just got a lemon.

[Goatracer1]

I've had a 1967 with factory AC, one car with Classic Auto Air and one with Antique Air. The factory set up had way LESS air flow and the compressor drew way more power from the engine. It was also way more complicated and wasn't any cooler. Check the company's websites to see what you actually need/want. I know there are some direct fit systems that use your factory controls.

[ZeGermanHam]

If your '67 HO convertible is still somewhat original and has any other desirable options, that might be one reason to keep it stock. My '66 had A/C but had a boring options list and was not original by the time it got to me, so I went with Vintage Air for a few reasons: lightweight modern Sanden compressor, more real estate on the firewall to allow for tall valve covers, and it was cheaper than restoring my original parts.

[Keith Seymore]

Subscribing (need to do the A/C in my '63 GP).

K

[jd66]

When I did my 66 GTO a few years back I went with Vintage air over the original system so easy to install plus it really cleans up under the hood and dash you now can see all the spark plugs and the firewall looks great, and best thing about Vintage Air it fits and out preforms the stock unit. jd grim

[HoovDaddy]

If the car is a keeper, is originality really that important? Vintage Air will outperform the factory unit. I've installed 2 of them and have one coming for my Firebird. The kits are complete, except for the belt. All modern parts and electronics. Some cars have a kit to convert the stock A/C control to electronic. You'll use your stock A/C outlets. I haven't done a A body, not sure if the duct hoses will fit behind a GM radio.

[Peter Serio]

If a Delco A/C system has not operated in 30 years, the POA valve has probably gone bad. Those tend to stick or freeze in position if not used at least once per (season) year. One other thing people often forget the inside of the piping (R12) of these old AC systems needs to be a 100% clean environment.

Often over time the O rings shrink and all of the old R12 will be long gone. If someone has removed the compressor off of the engine and left those lines open to the air, on a the system for years, now it is probably ruined. Once automobile R12 pipes; opened to the outside air, very bad things happen. Any moisture, lint dust or dirt that gets into those old systems can damage the delicate orifices and other moving parts inside of the compressor. The only thing that belongs inside of a 1960s or 1970s GM car A/C system piping would be old-school R-12 mixed with some of that special refrigerant oil.

On the flip side: all of the modern aftermarket AC set-ups come with all new parts and should also come with a 100% guarantee (provided it is put on the car correctly). GM was really strict on all their cars, trucks and vans about bringing in fresh, and hopefully clean outside air. Then either heating or cooling that air depending on the season.

That way the car is much safer from a standpoint of exhaust fumes entering the car if a exhaust pipe or muffler is leaking or you have a bad trunk weatherstrip gasket. Most, if not all of the modern retro-fit aftermarket A/C kits make no provision for any fresh air. So they basically run in a forever state of "re-circulation." As long as you remember to open up one vent wing window, whenever you run either your heater or your AC; that will help to get some fresh air back into the interior.

[rcush]

I am thinking of doing same thing to my 67 Coupe, mine had A/C originally but since been removed. For some reason they removed the under dash ducting, does the Vintage Air require use of stock ducting?

Thanks, don’t mean to hijack original thread

Bob


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[jd66]

vintage comes with all new flexible hose and adaptors for the original outlets and it all fits, and there's plenty of room for your radio, can't say enough about this system, so often you buy after market and say wtf, but not this . jd grim

[Vettdr]

I just installed the vintage air system in my 67 GTO. They send everything except the under dash vents. These are available through our sponsor. They send the blockoff plates to use to cover the holes where the dog house was if you chose to use them. I didn't as I didn't like the look of the bare firewall.

[rcush]

Awesome, thanks for the info

Bob


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[i4abuygto]

Thanks guys for all the info
Keep your opinions coming as I am sure many can use this info

It sounds like the majority think Vintage Air is the way to go
Can I purchase a VA system minus the condenser so I can use my previously purchased NOS condenser?


To let you all know I am dealing with an open canvas with my 67 WS convertible.
Maybe this will help with some opinions on the AC restore options

My 67 is a barnfind convertible 242 car PHS documentation says it should be a Tyrol Blue convertible w blue interior and white top with console, vacuum gauge and power windows
It is a numbers matching WS engine and Muncie transmission
I am not sure that the engine is original as I don’t know the history of the car. I know the numbers on the block match timing on the Build date of the car.

My wife and I decided on a parchment interior which is done and ready to install
Engine is also done and dynoed at 435hp with a 66 GTO tripower all correct numbers intake that I acquired for an earlier build. I like the “wow” factor of the tripower

I had the engine built by a local Pontiac race shop to run on pump gas and talked with Mike Wasson about how to set up the tri power carbs for the installed cam and put the original 67 intake and carb on the shelf to have if I ever want to go back to stock 67 intake.

This will be a driver so I am not sure about all the value opinions on keeping it stock which is why functionality is probably the most important.

I think we have decided on red but with a white top but not sure about maybe a custom color

I have the originsl 14” ralley 2 wheels but with the disc brake conversion I plan for the front I have picked up a set of 15” Rally 2 rims to keep it a stock look.

As you can see by the photo the body is currently off the frame and I really have an open canvas to do what I want and now is the time to decide on the AC system
This is a virtually rust free car that’s I don’t believe it has seen a winter or a salty environment as you can see every door and body seam with no rust holes.



Also, as a related side note I have a 79 Trans Am that also has had its stock AC system raped of components and my wife wants AC in that before she will ride in it so that is the subject for a different thread

Keep the info and ideas coming

Thanks guys

[ZeGermanHam]

Not sure it would be worth voiding the warranty on a new A/C system just to use a NOS condenser rather than what comes in the kit. You're going to deviate from original anyway, so I'd use the condenser in the kit, keep the warranty, and sell the NOS unit to someone who needs it for an all original build. Trying to use the NOS condenser rather than what comes in the kit may also mean the pre-bent condenser lines in the kit may not fit.

Also, it would be a shame to paint a Tyrol Blue HO 4-speed convertible red, IMO. And I say that as someone who is painting his GTO red. Tyrol is such a great color, and would look fantastic with a white top. Your car, your dream of course. But it has to be said.

[Cardo]

I guess I swim against the tide on this one, In my book Vintage Air is only for cars without factory A/C. I "restored" my factory air, and converted it to r134 in the process. I put in a new condenser and evaporator, resealed every air handling joint, and used a brand new A6 compressor with the new style seals on the shaft. I had the POA valve gutted and went to a cycling switch with a thermal sensor. My car will get condensation on the outside of the window with the A/C running and the car sitting still. Not being critical, but in my mind there is no need to reinvent the wheel, just fix the known short comings in the factory system. I still used a factory blower motor too, so while i will admit it does not blow as hard as a modern car, it is still more than sufficient to cool the car. I actually usually close the lap vents. I see a lot of people complaining about the modern style compressors failing, so that's one more reason not to go that route in my book if I don't have to.

[fyrffytr1]

Originally Posted by Cardo

I guess I swim against the tide on this one, In my book Vintage Air is only for cars without factory A/C. I "restored" my factory air, and converted it to r134 in the process. I put in a new condenser and evaporator, resealed every air handling joint, and used a brand new A6 compressor with the new style seals on the shaft. I had the POA valve gutted and went to a cycling switch with a thermal sensor. My car will get condensation on the outside of the window with the A/C running and the car sitting still. Not being critical, but in my mind there is no need to reinvent the wheel, just fix the known short comings in the factory system. I still used a factory blower motor too, so while i will admit it does not blow as hard as a modern car, it is still more than sufficient to cool the car. I actually usually close the lap vents. I see a lot of people complaining about the modern style compressors failing, so that's one more reason not to go that route in my book if I don't have to.

Where did you get your compressor?

[Cardo]

I ordered it through a Thermo King dealer in Michigan. I called directly to Alma and talked with engineering - they were able to look up the exact application, and told me where to call to order one. The compressor part number is 51-16197a. Alma does not stock them, but they built and had it to me in about 3 weeks. http://www.almaproducts.com/Transtar...s/A6-Flier.pdf I should probably mention here that the new compressors include the newer design double lip shaft seals that are not prone to leaking like the originals.

[rcush]

That is interesting because I have the original parts (out of car), but missing the interior ducting, so far no luck finding replacement ducting, anyone know if this is available through anyone? 67 GTO Coupe


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[Goatracer1]

If your condenser is truly NOS then it is not correct for a R134A system. They require a more efficient type.

[Vettdr]

crush, I have the ducting except the center underdash ducts. That is the two ou.ter elbows, and the defroster duct. I'm using the duct to outer vent ball adapters with my conversion. I think these may be available through our sponsor. If you want them, PM me and i can send pis of what i have. They're yours if you pay the shipping.