[61 389-348]

Originally Posted by Jim Doran

'61, I see nothing about how you resolved lighting both filaments in the low beam bulb. Did I miss something ? The relay harness on ebay doesn't appear to have this capability.

There was nothing to solve once I got the correct harness for a four lamp system

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CERAMIC-H4-H...-/331051630353

The hot from the relays directly to the battery and attach the ground. Then the factory wire going to the driver's side low beam into this harness and then this harness with the thicker wire to the headlamps. If you're using the Hellas or any of the other e-code H1 high beams, you'll have to elongate the notch in the buckets.

[Jim Doran]

I'm not following and I've dug into this in depth.

The dimmer switch in default mode routes +12v to EITHER the low beam side or high beam side, but not both. You must make a mod to either how you connect to the dimmer switch, or use diodes in connecting the 2 relays together to energize the low beam filament when in high beam mode.

I'm not trying to be argumentative but in default mode, these dual relay setups won't light all 6;

[66 Wagon]

Originally Posted by 61 389-348

There was nothing to solve once I got the correct harness for a four lamp system

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CERAMIC-H4-H...-/331051630353

How long was this harness? Was it enough to reach the lamps on both sides?
I bought a relay upgrade harness cheap over here in Sweden and it was about ten inches to short for a wide track Pontiac.
I guess the harness I got was meant for use on small European and Japanese excuses for cars

[61 389-348]

Originally Posted by Jim Doran

I'm not following and I've dug into this in depth.

The dimmer switch in default mode routes +12v to EITHER the low beam side or high beam side, but not both. You must make a mod to either how you connect to the dimmer switch, or use diodes in connecting the 2 relays together to energize the low beam filament when in high beam mode.

I'm not trying to be argumentative but in default mode, these dual relay setups won't light all 6;

Forget the dimmer switch. It's not affected by the new harness and will work like it always did. Light switch and dimmer switch become simply switches for the relay and are not carrying the headlamp current anymore. Neither the dimmer switch or headlamp switch will be hot to the touch anymore. Forget anything from the core support on back other than the hot lead from relay to battery. This is way easier than I thought it would be after screwing around with the Ron Francis harness for a while and not being able to get all four lamps on. .

I'll PM you my phone number. Call me and I'll try to explain.

[61 389-348]

Originally Posted by 66 Wagon

How long was this harness? Was it enough to reach the lamps on both sides?
I bought a relay upgrade harness cheap over here in Sweden and it was about ten inches to short for a wide track Pontiac.
I guess the harness I got was meant for use on small European and Japanese excuses for cars

For b-body it was a little too short and I had to also get these 6" extension that were available on ebay.

A friend of mine locally did his 65 GTO after I did mine and it reached fine. Funny, when we started our cars at our Thursday night hangout and turned their lights on, it looked like everyone else was lighting with candles.

[66 Wagon]

Originally Posted by 61 389-348

For b-body it was a little too short and I had to also get these 6" extension that were available on ebay.

Thanks, then I just put some extension wires to the one I have. No need to get a new harness if they're too short.

[66 Wagon]

If someone wants to read more here's a link to an Oldsmobile forum with a "how to do"-thread, with pictures, about upgrading the head lights:

http://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/...-hella-h1.html

[61 389-348]

Originally Posted by 66 Wagon

If someone wants to read more here's a link to an Oldsmobile forum with a "how to do"-thread, with pictures, about upgrading the head lights:

http://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/...-hella-h1.html

Parking lamp built into the lamp housing on the Hella lamps? That article makes it way more complicated than it has to be.

[61 389-348]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CERAMIC-H4-H...-/331051630353


This made it so much easier. Red goes to the battery, the relay grounds through the mounting screws.

The black male connector goes on your driver's side original low beam wire and then the four ceramic connectors go to your high beams and low beams. Ground each. You have to fiddle with the connection for the Hella high beams by using the adapter wires in the Hella boxes and then button everything up and go for a drive.

It all ended up being way simpler than I caused it to be with the Ron Francis harness. And I guarantee you that I have all six elements on with high beams on.

[66 Wagon]

Originally Posted by 61 389-348

Parking lamp built into the lamp housing on the Hella lamps? That article makes it way more complicated than it has to be.

A bit more complicated but informative if someone wants to build their own harness.
Parking lamps in the head lamps were quite common in Europe. It was both a safety feature, if one head light bulb burned out
you didn't have to be "one-eyed", and it also was a parking light on the cars that didn't have a special housing for that.
For many years and in many countries in Europe the blinkers needed to be orange/amber and parking light white, so a lamp that served as both wasn't legal.
All the manufacturers of 5 3/4 H4 E-coded lamps, like Hella, Bosch, Marchal, Cibie and Autopal, offered the option with parking lamps.
You don't need to wire them if you don't find lamp housings any lamps without them.

[ycis]

Originally Posted by 61 389-348

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CERAMIC-H4-H...-/331051630353


This made it so much easier. Red goes to the battery, the relay grounds through the mounting screws.

The black male connector goes on your driver's side original low beam wire and then the four ceramic connectors go to your high beams and low beams. Ground each. You have to fiddle with the connection for the Hella high beams by using the adapter wires in the Hella boxes and then button everything up and go for a drive.

It all ended up being way simpler than I caused it to be with the Ron Francis harness. And I guarantee you that I have all six elements on with high beams on.

nice, just ordered this actually...ive been needing to replace the headlamp wiring for awahile now!

[61 389-348]

Originally Posted by ycis

nice, just ordered this actually...ive been needing to replace the headlamp wiring for awahile now!

B-body? Won't reach without those 6 - 8 " extension harnesses. Vertical headlights makes it too far.

I'm heading out to a hangout and can't look for them right now, but in the original posts on this topic from 2013 I should have a eBay link for them.

If you can't find them, I can look after hangout, gym and get home.

[61 389-348]

Originally Posted by Jim Doran

Is this the same kit for a little bit less
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CERAMIC-H4-H...-/331051630353


Thanks for a good informative post;

Actually, you, Jim, posted the correct harness two years ago. On a 65 GTO you should be fine for length as my friend was in his teal 65.

[ycis]

if its just the plugs that need to go an additional 6-8"...im sure even my limited soldering skills can manage to fix that =)

[Jim Doran]

Originally Posted by 61 389-348

Forget the dimmer switch. It's not affected by the new harness and will work like it always did. Light switch and dimmer switch become simply switches for the relay and are not carrying the headlamp current anymore. Neither the dimmer switch or headlamp switch will be hot to the touch anymore. Forget anything from the core support on back other than the hot lead from relay to battery. This is way easier than I thought it would be after screwing around with the Ron Francis harness for a while and not being able to get all four lamps on. .

I'll PM you my phone number. Call me and I'll try to explain.

Thanks, I'll give you a ring. All good.

Please understand I am very competent in understanding how relays work and their role in removing the load from the dimmer and light switch. I've used relays many times.

Please also understand that the role of the dimmer switch is to route current to EITHER the low beam or high beam outgoing lead ( regardless of using relays or not ).

The topic I am trying to get to the root of is keeping all (6) filaments on at the same time. Unless you do as I described earlier or utilize some method with a one way diode in the relays ( the kits do not have this that I have seen ) you will NOT get all (6) filaments energized during high beam engagement by the dimmer switch.

If you are able to verify that you are in fact getting all (6) filaments energized with the above harness, then they are utilizing a diode approach ( not talked about in their ad ) and I'd be thrilled and quite surprised.

[Jim Doran]

Originally Posted by 61 389-348

Actually, you, Jim, posted the correct harness two years ago. On a 65 GTO you should be fine for length as my friend was in his teal 65.

A somewhat minor point. The Ron Francis kit ( while slightly more difficult to install ) does include genuine Bosch relays ( the gold standard ). The eBay kits include some other no name brand relays. Not saying it is an issue, just clarity in buyer beware.

[61 389-348]

Originally Posted by Jim Doran

Thanks, I'll give you a ring. All good.

Please understand I am very competent in understanding how relays work and their role in removing the load from the dimmer and light switch. I've used relays many times.

Please also understand that the role of the dimmer switch is to route current to EITHER the low beam or high beam outgoing lead ( regardless of using relays or not ).

The topic I am trying to get to the root of is keeping all (6) filaments on at the same time. Unless you do as I described earlier or utilize some method with a one way diode in the relays ( the kits do not have this that I have seen ) you will NOT get all (6) filaments energized during high beam engagement by the dimmer switch.

If you are able to verify that you are in fact getting all (6) filaments energized with the above harness, then they are utilizing a diode approach ( not talked about in their ad ) and I'd be thrilled and quite surprised.

"Please also understand that the role of the dimmer switch is to route current to EITHER the low beam or high beam outgoing lead ( regardless of using relays or not )"

Understood for the last 55 - 60 years or so.

"If you are able to verify that you are in fact getting all (6) filaments energized with the above harness"

Ok, now I understand what you're talking about. I have the high beam element on in the low beam plus of course the high beam. I'm wrong, I have four elements lit total on high beam. What I did do is get the 80/100 watt H4s bulb and the 100 watt H1s bulbs to replace the 55s that come with the lights. Plenty of heat like it is so having the 80 and the 100 on in the low beam would melt something I would think. So your way will have 110 watts output from the low beam and I have 100.

[61 389-348]

Originally Posted by Jim Doran

A somewhat minor point. The Ron Francis kit ( while slightly more difficult to install ) does include genuine Bosch relays ( the gold standard ). The eBay kits include some other no name brand relays. Not saying it is an issue, just clarity in buyer beware.

Also understood. It's why I gave the Ron Francis a try first.

[ycis]

on a side note, id recently replaced the h4 bulb in my motorcycle with an LED style, and i have to say its a marked improvement over the dull yellowish beam produced by the factory bulb.

anyone converted over to these sort of bulbs in an old boat? far less draw than a halogen as well! Bit pricey at 30+ bucks a bulb though.

[61 389-348]

Originally Posted by ycis

on a side note, id recently replaced the h4 bulb in my motorcycle with an LED style, and i have to say its a marked improvement over the dull yellowish beam produced by the factory bulb.

anyone converted over to these sort of bulbs in an old boat? far less draw than a halogen as well! Bit pricey at 30+ bucks a bulb though.

LED is coming around, but I don't think it's quite there yet. My entire house is now LED so I have no problem at all with it for some applications.

I've tried all sorts of bulbs in the tail lights and still prefer incandescent. For headlights, I think I can see slightly better with the warmer color 4000k of these versus the blue white 6000K of a HID or an LED. Maybe its just my very old age.