["QUICK-SILVER"]

With the PCV plumbed in the middle of #1 intake runner....It's going to have a lean miss. The closest idle mixture screw would have to be backed out for it to hit and would make #3 run rich. Balancing act at best. No even turns on mixture screws on front. At least till a fitting gets put in front plenum.

Clay

[Formulas]

Wait the PCV valve is plumbed into a single runner?

The PCV valve itself will flutter and make noise every time the cylinder hits

Learned that circa 1982 with a P4B intake

Quick check pull PCV from engine and cap it or put finger over it and listen

.

[HWYSTR455]

Dang, I forgot to check that.

.

[MrParty]

I don't know much but why not put the engine on a run stand? That would eliminate anything with the car and would make it easier to get around and hear things. I understand it's more $$ unless you can borrow one but it would help eliminate things. It would also tell you if it's 100% the engine.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

Formulajones,
I don't want to upset Mike or anyone else but I've been the one listening to this motor knock for over two years. I think the reason he thinks it subsided at 12 degrees is because it was idling around 1000-1100 rpm's. Ive been down that road of getting excited to hear "less" knocking but as soon as you bring it to normal idle, it's the exact same knock as before. I don't have to know motors to hear the same knock that has kept me off the road for 2 years.

.

I think what you said right there is key. Normal idle. What you might consider normal may not be what a performance engine wants. Idling out of gear at 1,000-1100 rpm is actually very common if an engine has a camshaft with a fair amount of overlap for it's size. If I remember right you're running a fairly decent cam in this thing. Something in the 240's @ .050 is what I recall. That's not likely going to be a happy engine idling down at 600-700 rpm unless you are really sharp on tuning the idle circuits/emulsions and some other trickery.

My thought is that when Highway put the timing at 12 and had the engine idling at 1,000 and you heard less knock, it's probably because it was knocking less LOL You might want to pursue that route further.

[Va68goat]

Formulajones,
I have a text from Paul that says the idle should be 900....so that's Paul's figure, not mine. If you look at the video, the idle was set to Paul's suggestion. I hope you're right about this, but I don't think that is the case. The knocking doesn't lessen with higher RPM, it's drowned out. I understand you're cheerleading for Paul but suggesting advice based on bias is not helping the knocking noise go away. I'd like to find the source of the knock rather than mask it. Thats like closing your eyes and hoping people can't see you.

Formulas,
Thats been pointed out a few times but not addressed. I will get that addressed but would that cause a knock?

MrParty,
There is a local machine shop that I can take it to that has an engine dyno and a stand. You're right...thats more money but it may be worth it.

[Formulajones]

I'm not cheerleading or bias here, but I can't help but point out the obvious. I mean if you can't hear the sound when things are set properly then that's a good thing. That usually means it's not there anymore
Raising the idle to 1,000 rpm does not make other noises so pronounced that it's going to mask a knock noise. It's either there or it isn't, it's either loud one way and not so much the other. This should be a clue that you're looking in the right area. If you think the noise was less pronounced with Highway's settings, maybe it's because it was.

It's not helping matters having so many hands on it, and when one makes headway someone else comes in and changes things.

[TedRamAirII]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

Ted, in my experience I've never seen it, but I have been retired for several years. Refer back to the beginning of my post..."It's possible". Did you bother to read the attachment.....FROZEN LIFTER ROLLERS, NOT bad cam cores.

Sorry if I got the wrong idea. You stated you never saw a flat roller cam. A bad roller will surely flatten a lobe.

[Va68goat]

Formulajones,
Call me crazy but I still hear the knocking noise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMobO8gjSaE

Prior to me getting the motor back, Paul spoke with the guys that worked on the motor and he cosigned everything that was done. There were experienced hands in Arizona that touched the motor and there were experienced hands that touched it here.....same knocking noise. Of course you're going to grab at the one guy that believes the knocking noise is lessened with more rpm...all the other guys that have spent more time with motor disagree. I'm at a disadvantage because I just don't know anything about motors....but my hearing is good!

[Va68goat]

Maybe someone can look at the cam and see if there is something unusual. I don't know what I'm looking at. I also added a picture of the motor on the dyno the first time with no mufflers. Could a knocking noise be heard if it's set up like this? I'm assuming it was set up like this each time.

[tom s]

So I dont have to go back and read the whole deal again,what lobe lift and what rockers and what rocker ratio?To me the cam and lifter look fine.Saw something on the dyno I have a question about.Tom

[Va68goat]

tom s,
Uh oh...I'll do my best. The rockers are 1.65 Crowers. I don't think anyone can answer a dyno question except Paul but I'll do my best!

[tom s]

OK,another straw,as I remember when those valve cover came out they did not like a lot of lift!With over 600 at the valve i would really make sure there is no witness marks from the rockers.I run the thick 5/16 butler gaskets and get away with 660 lift on factory covers but as I said when those came out the was issues with a lot of lift.Still grasping.Tom

[DOC]

Now is the time to spin it over with just the starter and use a mechanics stethoscope to pinpoint noise. Just be careful to not drop anything down there. Also, As it is turning over, feel each push rod, do you feel the noise? Touch areas between the push rods on the block and see if you feel the noise.

Look for any witness marks, however slight from the bars on the roller lifters especially the most rear ones and make sure they are not touching the block as it goes through the whole crank rotation. Hard to tell in the pic, But does #7 exhaust lifter bar look close to the block?


Otherwise, I do not see anything standing out. Looks good in there.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

Formulajones,
Call me crazy but I still hear the knocking noise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMobO8gjSaE

Of course you're going to grab at the one guy that believes the knocking noise is lessened with more rpm..(And less initial timing) .!

That's because he's actually the first guy that has attempted to try what I've been saying for weeks and finally found a difference in something.

[Va68goat]

tom s,
I did send the link to this valve cover from Butlers before I purchased them. Paul said it was good, he just had to use a thicker gasket. He suggested the gasket and I sent him the gasket and valve covers. He checked it for clearance. When the knocking was discovered, thats one of the first things that we checked. I have pictures of the inner valve covers in my phone.... somewhere. There were no witness marks. I doubt very seriously that Paul would have missed that. What is it that you see on the dyno picture?

DOC,
Great suggestion but I would hope that Paul would have done that when the motor was reassembled after he tore it apart.

Formulajones,
Yeah ok. Since you're an uninvolved, biased participant in this, I understand what you're saying. No need for me to comment any further.

[DOC]

Do you have the intake and valley cover off right now?

[Va68goat]

DOC,
No...Jeff said he found someone to come take a look at the motor. I'm hoping thats going to happen. No plans for me to disassemble this motor at this time.

[tom s]

I just noticed those valve covers on the dyno picture.Nothing to really see on a engine run stand or a dyno once the engine is ready to run that I can remember.Tom

[64speed]

I can see an improperly plumbed PCV causing a skip but not a pronounced knock.