[Greg Reid]

I will take a picture and post it.

..

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by Darth Menace

I will take a picture and post it. Anyway, it goes to the top rear of the motor

Yes, take a good close up picture.

Only thing I can think of is someone put a PCV valve and valley pan from a '67 or earlier engine on your car, but without pictures we're just guessing here.

[Darth Menace]

Originally Posted by Ben M.

Yes, take a good close up picture.

Only thing I can think of is someone put a PCV valve and valley pan from a '67 or earlier engine on your car, but without pictures we're just guessing here.

[Ben M.]

Someone put a '67 or earlier valley pan and PCV setup on your car.

[Darth Menace]

Im not going to lie, this is beyond irritating. Not only are the vaccum lines plumbed wrong, but there is stuff on there from previous years. Add in the fact of the aftermarket carb, and this really ticks me off. Should I keep the lines plumbed the way they are, or change it up t as close to factory as possible. Whats the reason for this older PCV thing?

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by Darth Menace

Whats the reason for this older PCV thing?

It's just how they did it back then. They changed to one in the front either into the carb or off the front intake runner. Where is your PCV valve (the end that goes into the valley pan) going to? If it's going back to where the power brake booster should be I'd re-think that.

[gtohurstjudge]

Darth, since the valley pan is a 67 model, it may be that the entire engine
is a 67 model. If so you need to be aware of a possible problem that would result in the
engine having little power. During the 67 model year, Pontiac made a huge batch of
crankshafts with the keyway for the lower timing gear in the wrong place. Rather than
scrap them, which is what Pontiac should have done, they installed a special lower timing
gear on these cranks with the keyway in the wrong place to compensate for the timing error.
Everything was fine till some poor schmuck decided to replace his timing gears and chain
twenty years later with replacement parts with the keyways where they were supposed to be.
The result was an engine with no power and very low compression. I got stung by one of
these cranks on a customer's 67 GTO about fifteen years ago. We changed out the timing components and the car wouldn't get out of it's own way. When we degreed the cam we discovered the keyway on the crank was about ten degrees off where it was supposed to be.
We purchased a lower gear with multiple keyways to get the engine in time. This car had me scratching my head and my balls for quite some time! Ironically, about a month after I solved the problem, an article appeared in High Performance Pontiac magazine talking about the
existence of defective 67 crankshafts. Check the compression on the engine. If it is a GTO
engine it should be at least 175 psi or more. A low compression Lemans engine should be at least 150 psi. The engine I had with the keyway in the wrong place for stock timing gears was reading about 105-110 in every cylinder. Also, as someone pointed out previously, the
sock in the gas tank could be plugged up. The one in my GTO plugged up at 90,000 miles
in 1974, causing lack of power and laying down at high speeds.

[rohrt]

Originally Posted by gtohurstjudge

Darth, since the valley pan is a 67 model, it may be that the entire engine
is a 67 model. If so you need to be aware of a possible problem that would result in the
engine having little power. During the 67 model year, Pontiac made a huge batch of
crankshafts with the keyway for the lower timing gear in the wrong place. Rather than
scrap them, which is what Pontiac should have done, they installed a special lower timing
gear on these cranks with the keyway in the wrong place to compensate for the timing error.
Everything was fine till some poor schmuck decided to replace his timing gears and chain
twenty years later with replacement parts with the keyways where they were supposed to be.
The result was an engine with no power and very low compression. I got stung by one of
these cranks on a customer's 67 GTO about fifteen years ago. We changed out the timing components and the car wouldn't get out of it's own way. When we degreed the cam we discovered the keyway on the crank was about ten degrees off where it was supposed to be.
We purchased a lower gear with multiple keyways to get the engine in time. This car had me scratching my head and my balls for quite some time! Ironically, about a month after I solved the problem, an article appeared in High Performance Pontiac magazine talking about the
existence of defective 67 crankshafts. Check the compression on the engine. If it is a GTO
engine it should be at least 175 psi or more. A low compression Lemans engine should be at least 150 psi. The engine I had with the keyway in the wrong place for stock timing gears was reading about 105-110 in every cylinder. Also, as someone pointed out previously, the
sock in the gas tank could be plugged up. The one in my GTO plugged up at 90,000 miles
in 1974, causing lack of power and laying down at high speeds.

That is interesting. First I have ever heard of it.

[Darth Menace]

Ben M- The other end sits in the hole I took the picture of.

GTO hurst judge-
Thanks for the info a huge write up. When i got the car I did check the engine codes with a website provided here and it is a 70 motor. I can always double check again

[Darth Menace]

Hey, I just figured out why things have looked odd (that PCV thing as well as a few other things) I read the code XV on the engine, and when I looked it up I saw the info that it waqs a 1970 400ci engine code, but on this site: http://www.classicalpontiac.com/cgi-...bal/engine.cgi the XV shows as a 1970 400 AND a 1967 400. So it is way less HP than I thought, but it would make sense that it is a 67 more than a 1970 motor.

Sure it doesn't solve any of my drivability issues, but does solve some stuff

[Greg Reid]

You may have already done this, I can't remember if you posted it or not. If you have, excuse me for repeating....but
Check the date code on the block. It's right near the distributor hole. There are quite a few codes that were used on multiple years. The only way to tell them apart is the combine the two letter code AND the date.
If it's a '70, it will probably have a large casting '70' back there. The earlier years just have something in the format of 'A157' and is smaller and therefore a bit tougher to see. You'll need a good light and a flexible back.
In the example given, 'A' would be January, 'B' would be February and so on. '15' would be the day of the month and '7' would be the last digit of the year, ie, 1967.

[gtohurstjudge]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

You may have already done this, I can't remember if you posted it or not. If you have, excuse me for repeating....but
Check the date code on the block. It's right near the distributor hole. There are quite a few codes that were used on multiple years. The only way to tell them apart is the combine the two letter code AND the date.
If it's a '70, it will probably have a large casting '70' back there. The earlier years just have something in the format of 'A157' and is smaller and therefore a bit tougher to see. You'll need a good light and a flexible back.
In the example given, 'A' would be January, 'B' would be February and so on. '15' would be the day of the month and '7' would be the last digit of the year, ie, 1967.

If it's a 67 motor, you may have one of the engines
with a bad crankshaft that some poor schmuck installed timing gears on and now no power.

[Darth Menace]

Originally Posted by gtohurstjudge

If it's a 67 motor, you may have one of the engines
with a bad crankshaft that some poor schmuck installed timing gears on and now no power.

I will clean the carb first and go from there. I am going to clean it out while on the car, and if that doesn't work clean it out off the car, and if that doesn't work push it off a cliff

[gtohurstjudge]

Darth, if you push it off a cliff, be sure to film it for you tube
and post the film link on the forum.....I'm sure everyone would enjoy it LOL.

[Darth Menace]

Originally Posted by gtohurstjudge

Darth, if you push it off a cliff, be sure to film it for you tube
and post the film link on the forum.....I'm sure everyone would enjoy it LOL.

no because insurance company might get wind of it

[Verdoro 68]

Originally Posted by Darth Menace

I will clean the carb first and go from there. I am going to clean it out while on the car, and if that doesn't work clean it out off the car, and if that doesn't work push it off a cliff

Do yourself a favor and clean the carb off the car. It's way too easy to drop a screw down the intake and that's the last thing you need right now.

[Darth Menace]

Originally Posted by Verdoro 68

Do yourself a favor and clean the carb off the car. It's way too easy to drop a screw down the intake and that's the last thing you need right now.

By cleaning the carb on the vehicle I meant turn it on, spray carb cleaner down the vents and rev it I did that today and replaced the filter. If the sand like crud in the bottom of the old filter is any indication of the carb, then yes it is dirty. I felt that it ran better, but then again it could be psychological. I took it for a VERY short spin down the street and yes it chugged at times, but never died.

I also don't know if it's directly related to the slower throttle response, but the throttle cable seems like there is a lot of play in it, as though it needs to be tightened. This could also be directly related to the gas petal being relatively close to the ground and not as high as I would have guessed it should be. I have no idea if throttle cables stretch, but this could be the case.

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by Darth Menace

I have no idea if throttle cables stretch, but this could be the case.

They don't.
What part of the country are you in Darth? It's almost frustrating to read some of the issues you are having, knowing that most are fairly simple things to someone who knows these cars. It's certainly understandable knowing that you were not 'raised up' around these nearly 50 year old cars...so don't think I'm knocking your ability to handle them. You just need some hands-on help.
Some of your engine problems could be more serious but there's no way to judge without someone 'in the know' to put their eyes and hands on the car. I'd like to see you meet up with someone on this sight (or in a local car club perhaps) who could go over the car with you and give you some guidance.
These cars are really much more simple to work on and troubleshoot than modern vehicles...IF you understand how they function.

[Darth Menace]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

They don't.
What part of the country are you in Darth? It's almost frustrating to read some of the issues you are having, knowing that most are fairly simple things to someone who knows these cars. It's certainly understandable knowing that you were not 'raised up' around these nearly 50 year old cars...so don't think I'm knocking your ability to handle them. You just need some hands-on help.
Some of your engine problems could be more serious but there's no way to judge without someone 'in the know' to put their eyes and hands on the car. I'd like to see you meet up with someone on this sight (or in a local car club perhaps) who could go over the car with you and give you some guidance.
These cars are really much more simple to work on and troubleshoot than modern vehicles...IF you understand how they function.

Greg- I am located in Edmonton, Alberta. Don't worry, I take no offence in what you say. yes some things on here that I have a problem with is simple for others here. In the last couple years I have had to learn to do things on my own, having a mortgage/kids my toys takes a back seat as far as finances. When I had a mustang back in the day I lived in Ontario near my uncle (mechanic/mustang fanatic). I try to fix what I can here because paying people costs a fortune and there is only one mechanic I know (personally) that I trust (when I had to get the timing cover gasket replaced on my viper, I got a local guy who was cheap and by the hour, he took so long I could have paid Dodge to do it)

Glad to know though a lot of these can be simple things. I am slowly learning with the assistance of youtube and this forum, but I will glady get someone to do a bit of work if I can't.

[Greg Reid]

Well, everyone here is pulling for you. I hope you can find someone local who is into Pontiacs and knows his way around them. Maybe when the weather breaks you can attend some car shows and get to know some local Pontiac'rs.