[HWYSTR455]

As some may know, in my efforts to go overdrive in my '71 LeMans daily driver, I toasted a BTO Level 3 2004R, and recently upgraded to a CK Performance 4L80E. After speaking to several top 2004R builders in the country, it was recommnded to go with the 4L80E over the 2004R, and am told it is THE bullet proof soultion. Some asked to provide info regarding the install, and I wanted to share my experience. I'm sure there's information that any can find useful who are contimplating this swap.

Preface: My daily driver is just that, a daily driver, I drive it year round, rain, snow, etc, and some areas of the car show some weathering, though in it's defense, will say it is a solid car. It's not a show car by any stretch, but mechanically it's sound, and has many goodies. So when you see things where there's some surface imperfections, keep in mind, I drive the heck out of this car, and have no intentions of making it a trailer queen. I even at one point pondered selling it (then I woke up!). Anyway, for a pretty complete run down of the car, you can look at this thread:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...ghlight=lemans


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[HWYSTR455]

Parts List:

CK Performance 4L80E Transmission, with the sprag and drum upgrade, @ 3000 stall lockup converter, double balloon plates, TCI Chvey/BOP adapter, CompuShift controller, Cable X speedo converter box.

Incidentals:

Shorten driveshaft, new TH400 slip yoke, u-joints, misc bolts, zip ties, fluid, 5/16 compression fittings, and a few other items not worth mentioning.

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[HWYSTR455]

Prior to installing the trans, I did a once-over, and decided to doctor the housing some to aid in avoiding any potential clearance issues. Here you can see I chose to trim the housing on both sides where the inpection plate would normally bolt. I trimed the 'ears' at the lower sides, as well as the 'install hook' point, as you can see in these pics:

I felt there would be no compromise in the integrity of the case by doing so, and after touched these areas with a rattle can.


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[HWYSTR455]

I probably should have gotten better shots of the adapter plate before & after install, but not only did I forget my camera, I feel sit's pretty much a no-brainer. Couple things I chose to do is I drilled 2 holes on either side with the thought of using zip ties that have the retainer button on them to secure cables.

HIND SIGHT - On the passenger side, between the top and second hole, I should have notched the plate to allow for the dip stick tube to mount properly. I drilled a 3rd hole while it was in the car to pass a bolt through to secure the tube, but it would have been cleaner if I would have notched it.

The flex plate needs to come off the crank to mount the plate, fyi.


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[HWYSTR455]

Installing the trans itself is a no brainer, bolt it up, and use the spacers provided for the converter.

The bolts that came with the converter were too short, and I had to get longer ones. Since the holes are blind in the converter, you have to be careful of the length. About 1 inch is about right, maybe 1.25, but finding metric bolts that length can be a challenge. I chose to use factory LS1 bolts for an '02 Camaro, and I doctored the ends slightly with a grinder where the non-threaded part of the bolt protruded.

Seating the PTC converter was a bit of a bear, and required a bunch of patience and 'jiggling. I wasn't sure if it was seated all the way and chose to call tech a PTC and ask for pointers. They basically said, once installed in the car, there should be no more than about the thickness of 2 nickles between the flex plate and the converter feet. Of course you also have to include the adpater spacers when making this calculation. Considering there was about 2 nickles width, I added one grade 8 washer, fyi.


.In these pics you can see where trimming the housing was a good idea. Once in the car I realized that the install hook point would have come close contacting the floor board on the driver's side, and the ears wouldn't have cleared the headers. Trimming the ear on the passenger side also will help when changing the oil filter. I chose to remove the driver's side header to aid in install. In these pics you can also see the holes I drilled in the adapter plate for cable ties.


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[HWYSTR455]

To check tunnel clearance, I jacked the trans all the way up against the floor to see where it would contact. I noted where it contacted, and kept in mind the areas that I might have to doctor, though after the cross member was installed as you will see later, found that it cleared all areas. Keep in mind too that I need to change my body bushings, and the body bushings are a touch squashed. Also note where the lift hook point would probably have made contact.

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[HWYSTR455]

The crossmember required modification in order to use and install. I first trimmed the crossmember in the front since it contacted the pan and wouldn't allow to be slipped into the frame channels. Later I discovered that this didn't help, and I had to notch the frame slightly. The notch was slight, and I don't feel it adversely affected the structure or ridgeness of the frame.

I tried turning the crossmember backwards, and moving it as far back as it would go, neither would have provided enough to line up the trans mount bolt holes. It took a combo of moving the mounting point of the crossmember on the frame to the rear most position, drilling holes, and moving the holes in the crossmember back. The pic is of the driver's side with the hole locations marked. Only one hole needed to be drilled, as I was able to use one of the factory holes. (yellow marks).

Moving the holes in the crossmember back made the holes over the raised portion of the crossmember, and making the tailshaft of the trans too high. So I cut a section out of the crossmember and welded a plate in, and drilled holes in that. Shot it with a rattle can, and it was golden.

[HWYSTR455]

More crossmember pics

[HWYSTR455]

The 4L80E requires a controller, and as you all know, electronics come with this stupid, massive bulkhead grommet that you can drive a truck through, and the heck if I want to drill ANY holes I don't have to. Since the 4L80E has no mechanical speedo drive, you don't need a speedo cable, and luckily, it's the exact side grommet the controller harness has. So I passed it through that, draped it over towards the bellhousing, and secured it with a wire tie at the location I drilled the hole in the adapter plate. (These pics show exposed wires, but are covered for the final install.

The controller box I wanted hidden, so I chose to mount it behind the driver kick panel. This required cutting a notch out of the area so the box would fit. I ran the cables behind the e-brake pedal, up and over all the other 'stuff' down there. The pic doesn't show the screws I used, but the panel hides it all. The mark I made was sloppy, and the actual cut was better.


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[HWYSTR455]

Although I don't have pics, there's a TPS sensor that mounts on a bracket that goes on the driver rear carb mounting bolt. It has an arm that goes to the throttle linkage on (in my case) a Holley, and is a very straight-forward install. It has a weatherpak connector that I removed to pass the wires through the factory firewall grommet, and then I reinstalled the connector. It requires a calibration that is done with the hand held controller display, and is really the only adjustment that needs to be made, other than fine tuning shift points and shift harness.

Tomorrow, I fill the trans with fluid and do the final test drives and adjustments. I'll let all know how it goes. Hope everyone gets something useful out of this post, and if anyone has any questions regarding the 4L80E, let me know....


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[440GP69]

Good Job!, I'm almost ready to Start on My 4L80E, Is your PTC a Lock up and what stall? Mine will be Full Manual V-body with Lock up Only in OD Thanks to advice from Jake Shoe!, And I'm Modifing the stock 69 GP shifter for an Extra Slot, My Converter will be a 3800-4000 Tight as well you know LOL, Goodluck I look forward to your test drive!

[vidguy]

Great info. And thanks for the honest and candid explanations of your problems and insights. Good for you on taking the plunge. We know it wasn't cheap, nor simple.

[GOAT8U2]

Great write up, thanks for the tips. I'd love to do this swap someday and drive the car anywhere I wanted.

Keep posting pics and details, you're helping out future A bodies do this swap

Any details on the Drive Shaft length and pics of that TPS hook up?

[Billz428]

Great write up!

How many miles did your BTO last?

I have one behind a stout 428 and I am concerned.

BTW damn nice car!!

Did you hit the NO2 much, that is one route I,m not taking.

My trans is set up very close to what you had, PDQ 2600 extrem ,except I run a deep pan and 700r4 filter.

[HWYSTR455]

440GP69- Yes, I recall you were saying you were going to a 4L80E, think I may have commented on that thread. My sway coverage here was including you for the FYI. The converter I have is a 3000 as I recall, and is a lock up. The controller allows for lock up in 3 & 4, and with a switch, can lock it for tow.

I used the ShiftWorks OD factory shifter kit for the OD slot/gate, which I had originally purchased for the 2004R. Guess I should have included that in this write up! Thanks for pointing that out!

vidguy - Your welcome, hope all can get some valuable info from this. And thank you for the compliment!


GOAT8U2 - Driveshaft measurement from trans flange to rear flange is 54 and an 1/8th", using a Moser/GM 12-bolt. Not quite sure what the driveshaft length turns out to be, but that's the info I provided to the shop who did the shaft.

billz428 - The 2004R lasted about 5000 or so miles, max, and that's after sending it back once. The converter was supposedly the issue the first time which BTO replaced, but I was never happy with the shifts. It 'slushed' into all gears, even at WOT. Never hit the button yet on this setup, have been trying to dial it in since I got it going. I ran the same converter, which was never even close to 2600 by the way, and flashed to like 3600. The one that was replaced was flashing to 4200-4400. I ran the deep pan as well. On the other thread, "200-4r Home rebuild-Feasible? " I listed the 2004R info, which is actually a copy of the BTO reciept. The 4L80E costs were in that thread too. Believe 'steve' also posted a video of the LeMans in action, if you're curious. And thank you!

[HWYSTR455]

I'd like to take a moment to thank a few people who helped me in this effort, and without the help, not only would I have not been able to accomplish, but would have had many more hours of frustration!

Chris at CK Performance - Thank you Chris for all your help, and you did so while moving the shop and suffering from the flu! Kuddos!

Bryan Dobbins at BDM Racing - Bryan, thanks a ton for the use of the facilities, and for all your patience and help. Can't thank you enough for keeping me off my garage floor in sub-zero degree weather! Promise to make it out to Summit Point to embarrass myself! http://www.BDMRacing.net

Mike at CompuShift - Thanks Mike for your fast, no-BS answers, and for being there for support every time!


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[Pontiacmuscle]

How did the test drive work out?

[HWYSTR455]

The test drive was great! I did the initial startup, fluid level check, checked for leaks, and went for a drive. It shifts incredible, light throttle is a nice easy shift, and as throttle increases it shifts harder. I played with those settings some to make it shift slightly harder at lower throttle positions, and lowered the lockup speed some. I will play with that a little more to get it where I like, but it was darn close with the default settings. I did a fluid change and topped of the gas, and will drive it for around 500 miles before another filter and fluid change. The CompuShift is very intuitive, and easy to use once you get to know it, which is a pleasant surprise. It really does feel like a TH400 with an extra gear, another surprise. The converter is tight, and the stall seems right on target at about 3000.

My only issues:

* Seems park doesn't engage, and you can hear a ratcheting as it moves while in park. I will call CK tomorrow regarding this, hopefully it's an easy fix.

* The exhaust makes contact on the crossmember slightly at highway speeds, will have to trim a small piece to prevent this (but the stereo drowns it out easily!)

* The replacement filter I bought had stand-off dimples that prevented the pan from fully seating, will have to try a different application ( that one was for a 2002 GMC Truck, will ask CK as to what app to get).

* At take off there's a slight 'whirring' sound, though believe this is normal, and you have to really pay close attention to hear it. Will Ask CK about this as well.

* Need to change the dip switches for the Cable X box, the speedo is slightly off, maybe 4-6 MPH. It was set to a 29 inch tire, and I have a 26 inch tire. The instructions were very unclear on setting the switches, may have to call HSM to get the scoop on that. Not a big deal though.

* Could have been just me, but it seems when the dip stick is put in one of the two ways that allows it to slide down the filler tube, the reading was incorrect. I'll verify this as time permits, also not a big deal.

I am totally happy with the characteristics of the trans, and am anxious to correct the few issues, and see how it does in the long run! I'll be driving up to Philly Sunday for a week then back, should give me the 500+ miles, and will report again once I return....


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[Overkillphil]

Great to hear you got her installed and test run. The CompuShift sounds well sorted and worth the money. Where are you going in Philly?

[jakeshoe]

The 4L80 is a great trans. Hard to beat for strength.

I build quite a few of them and they have become my favorite one to play with lately.
I did one recently with a transbrake, waiting on results for that one. I have a transbrake in the works for my full manual valve body (no electronics) version.

Here's a write up one of my customers did on his install into a 2nd gen F-body.

http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131878