[i82much]

Kind of curious if anyone is getting up there on a high milage street engine, especially one that gets smacked around pretty hard. I keep thinking about fussing with my tune, trying to get it to run well at all rpms and under all conditions, and also trying to keep the oil clean so the engine gives good service life. I basically run around smacking it all the time, but I shift easy and about 6200 or so.

I guess maybe even with a mild roller I should keep an eye in the valve springs and lifters. Any other suggestions for longevity? How many miles on yours, and do you drive it pretty hard on the street?

[RamAirIV28]

you don't want the oil to stay clean. it carries the dirt away to the filter and should be changed often along with the filter.

I use mobile 1 and change my oil every 4k. 267 k miles later ......

[steve25]

In a exhaustive test that Seal Power corp did back in the late 60s or early 70s its was found that 60% of all of the normal engine ware that happens takes place in the time span between the motor being cold and up at normal operating temp.
The conclusions that can be drawn from this are.
1) dry starts must be avoided.

2) the oil must be thin enough cold to flow well right away.

3) Excess fuel must be kept out of the motor and in turn the oil.
A choke coming off fast is important.

4) long warm up times from running a T-STAT in which the motor never gets to temps above 180 and or the time span to reach 180 are counter productive long term!
The clearances that get machined into the engine parts are chosen to have the needed long life clearances at temps of 180 or better.

Also note that heat is power in regards to pushing the pistons down on the power stroke.
Burning fuel heats the injested air, and the air expansion from heat is the powering force on the piston.
If you could heat the air with a big enough spark, like a big ass 200 amp fuse blowing open in the chamber you would power the piston downward just as if some type of fuel was being burned!
The key is BURN, not BANG, as when there is a lean or too much heat / to little Octane situation!
Valve springs and rings will go south sooner or latter no matter what you do, and most cars with stock type cams could use valve springs by 50.000 miles.
I recall the first time I changed mine out on a stock cam 60k mile motor, and not only did the rpm shift point come back up, but the rate of rpm rise came back, and the low end torque was up also!

[PunchT37]

I have a short block 455 that has been together since the 80`s. Key is, clean oil, never run it hard till warmed up, and don`t over rev. This thing has been to the track a few times and a ton of street miles. Still runs 30 psi idle and 80 at 2000 and up. Gots to get oil temp up for flow AND drainback. Run it hard cold and your bearings won`t last in the long run.

[Sirrotica]

The key IS clean oil, something you'll never have with a full flow filter that comes as the standard issue from almost all manufacturers. A well known fact is the full flow filter is inline in the oil system and the priority is isn't to keep the oil clean. The priority is to keep oil flowing to the internally lubed engine parts. That said the filter and the way the system is designed is a huge compromise.

Priority one is not to starve engine parts for oil, priority two is to remove bigger chunks of contaminants. Not all the contaminants, just the larger stuff that won't fit in to the engine clearances. Also there are by pass valves in the filter and most engines have a bypass in the engine being partially restricted or the oil is too thick to flow through the media that the internal parts are protected by by pass valves and dirty oil is better than no oil at all. Now if this doesn't sound like a compromise of design you shouldn't be reading this anyway.

The fact that you cannot do a even mediocre job of filtering oil when that isn't the main priority of the design is only to supply oil to the internal parts, filtered or not. Even the oil that does end up going through the filter media is only filtered to a lesser degree because the media has to be unrestricted and even the oil that does get filtered, is poorly filtered. More like running paint through a strainer prior to filling a spray gun. The big pieces get strained out, the fine metallic pieces go right on through the strainer much like a full flow filter does. That fine abrasive material that will never get filtered out of your oil no matter how many times it passes through the filter/strainer media will continue to circulate causing unnecessary wear to your engine.

Bypass filtering does the job of removing ALL the contaminants (down to sub 1 micron sizes) the first time they pass through taking them out of the equation. Oil can't be filtered quickly to this standard of cleanliness, it takes time for the oil to pass through a dense filter and come out the other end actually analytically clean in one pass. That's the reason that the by pass system is independent of the lubrication circuit is because it could never pass enough oil fast enough to keep the internally lubed parts supplied adequately. The oil is supplied to the filter in a separate circuit and when done being filtered is returned to the oil pan devoid of all the nasty stuff that goes right on through your full flow filter/strainer.

Most people here have cut open an oil filter and know the actual amount of media is less than 1 square foot and is particularly porous to allow adequate oil flow under all conditions. There is roughly 100 square feet of media in the full flow filter filter I'm affiliated with. With over 100 times as much media that will filter down to less than 1 micron instead of 20+ microns full flow filters commonly filter to. 100 times more media that at a minimum of 20 times more efficient at removing abrasives from the oil. Which filter is going to keep your oil cleaner? Pretty much a no brainer isn't it?

Oil isn't going down in price and it's no longer cheap to run it and drain it to remove all the abrasives that a full flow filter simply won't remove. My oil in my Diesel truck is plain old dino Rotella oil and has been in it over 20,000 miles and just under 3 years. No ill effects whatsoever by just changing the 3 dollar element and adding a quart of make up oil every 3,000 miles. BTW, the truck has just under 250,000 miles on it at this point. By pass filtration is all of the answer to the question, What can I do to make my engine last longer? Simply remove ALL of the abrasives from the oil, not just the bigger ones that your full flow filter strainer catches so they don't continue to circulate wearing your engine internally.

Conservatively any given engine should last at least 2-3 times longer with proper by pass filtration used in addition to the full flow filter/strainer your now using. You also don't have to keep draining the oil to remove the fine abrasives because the by pass filter removes them keeping the oil really clean. The oil naturally lasts much longer and even at 10,000 miles is much cleaner than oil at 3,000 miles with just a full flow filter/strainer being used.

There is much to read about full flow filters versus by pass filters on the web, if you don't educate yourself to the differences as well as the disadvantages of the full flow system, and the advantages of the by pass system you'll not get the full mileage your engine is capable of delivering with really clean oil in it all the time. Not just clean oil when you first change it.

SWEAT THE SMALL STUFF, the small abrasives that continue to circulate is what wears engines out and causes sludge formation because it can, and does go everywhere and continually does it's damage. Your current full flow filter system allows it to happen. It's never too late to update an engine to a more efficient system, you'll start the benefits as soon as you install a by pass system.

[David Jones]

After 20,000 miles, how much is left of the additive package the oil left the factory with?
At 10,000 miles my sample oil was nearly "worn out" according to the analysis.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by David Jones

After 20,000 miles, how much is left of the additive package the oil left the factory with?
At 10,000 miles my sample oil was nearly "worn out" according to the analysis.

The additive package has virtually nothing to react with as it's function is neutralizing acid and keeping the small abrasives suspended is not needed with the superior filtering of the Frantz filter. Plus it is added to when the quart of makeup oil is added when changing the filter at 3000-4000 miles.



This is not the oil analysis of my own truck however it is representative of another diesel truck with 20,000 miles on the oil 02 Dodge Cummins with a Frantz filter. If you read the notations the additive package is very active according to Blackstone labs in Fort Wayne IN. This is typical of any analysis I have read with any by pass filter. The additive package that oil companies use is meant to deal with only a full flow filter system. When a by pass system is used the package is overkill and is not depleted quickly due to the contaminants actually being removed from the oil.

OTR trucks do not drop their oil nearly as often as the passenger cars or diesel pickups (many go 20,000 + and more miles between oil changes) and their addtive package stays healthy due to superior filtering of the oil. It's the same oil, the difference is the quality it is filtered to, plain and simple. The additive package doesn't get used up when there is nothing for it to work on.

I'm guessing in your case you used only a standard full flow filter and at 10,000 miles of course the additives had to work extremely hard and were used up dealing with the dirt and abrasives still in the oil. The quality of the filtration is the difference and a full flow filter/strainer will simply not do anywhere near the job a by pass filter will. Apples and oranges comparison.

The filtering action of a full flow filter/strainer is akin to running oil through three coffee filters. How many would want to run 3 coffee filters in place of your oil filter? In essence this is what your doing anyway. Coffee filters are between 10-20 microns, actually a bit better than most full flow filter/strainers.

[i82much]

Originally Posted by PunchT37

I have a short block 455 that has been together since the 80`s. Key is, clean oil, never run it hard till warmed up, and don`t over rev. This thing has been to the track a few times and a ton of street miles. Still runs 30 psi idle and 80 at 2000 and up. Gots to get oil temp up for flow AND drainback. Run it hard cold and your bearings won`t last in the long run.

Do you smack it pretty hard once it is warmed up? I think that is what I am really hoping to hear from is people that beat on their street machine pretty good yet have seen good service life as well.

I don't see myself spinning past 6500, and with an IA2, Eagle H beams, forged crank and BRC pistons, if it breaks at 6500 then I am just a really unlucky guy, no?

[72LuxuryLeMansLa.]

Originally Posted by i82much

Do you smack it pretty hard once it is warmed up? I think that is what I am really hoping to hear from is people that beat on their street machine pretty good yet have seen good service life as well.

I don't see myself spinning past 6500, and with an IA2, Eagle H beams, forged crank and BRC pistons, if it breaks at 6500 then I am just a really unlucky guy, no?

I'll vouch for Punch on this. He is not timid when driving that car! He doesn't beat on it like he used to but that is because of suspension and rear end age and condition. When he does hit the go peddle that car pins you back in the seat and the engine would probably take another 10 years of street torture. It still runs very well for any bottom end much less one with 20+ years of torture.

[i82much]

Originally Posted by 72LuxuryLeMansLa.

I'll vouch for Punch on this. He is not timid when driving that car! He doesn't beat on it like he used to but that is because of suspension and rear end age and condition. When he does hit the go peddle that car pins you back in the seat and the engine would probably take another 10 years of street torture. It still runs very well for any bottom end much less one with 20+ years of torture.

Awesome. I hope in 20 years someone posts something similar about my car.

[72LuxuryLeMansLa.]

Originally Posted by i82much

Awesome. I hope in 20 years someone posts something similar about my car.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...archid=4584335

[i82much]

Originally Posted by 72LuxuryLeMansLa.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...archid=4584335

Very nice, that kind of car is, for me, what the hobby is all about. Glad to hear he is still beating on it.

[geeteeohguy]

What PunchT37 said. The 389 in my '65 was rebuilt by me and my buddies in 1981....and it's still in the car, and the rear main is even dry. 50,000 miles, a lot of them with all three carbs wide open and banging the 4 speed thru the gears. Blew up a trans, and a rear end (at different times) behind this engine. Have run slicks on the car. Have floated the valves. Never beat on it cold, always clean oil and air filters. Still running NOS Kendall GT oil in it (that should be changed) that I've had since the '90's. My other one is the original stock block in my '67 GTO, which has 246,000 on it, with the original cast rods. I rebuilt it in '88 at 173,ooo, but should have just done a timing chain and valve job. Everything else was fine, but I didn't know any better. Ran Valolive 10/30 in that one. Switched to 15/40 Rotella about 10 years ago for the ZDDP, and no issues. Car gets driven all the time, and has been abused when I was young and dumb. I have revved it so high that the lifters pumped up and I had dead cylinders until the next morning. Stupid stuff. I've owned both cars for over 30 years, but always, always let them warm up, kept the oil full and clean, and had good air filters. Both cars get driven much more sanely now that I'm an old guy.

[PunchT37]

The bottom end has been through the origional 8.2 rear end, the thm 350, 2 thm 400`s, 3 cams and 3 sets of heads. Nothing wrong with the heads though. 114cc 4x, 62`s then 6x#4`s are on it now. Just changed them for compression/porting etc. No broken springs, bent pushrods, rear mains seals, spun brgs, thrown rods etc. Engine is still prolly good for 11.80`s at 3600# today with it`s grey hair. Stock rods too. Iv`e just not gotten too carried away with rpm`s over the years.

[PunchT37]

Originally Posted by i82much

Do you smack it pretty hard once it is warmed up? I think that is what I am really hoping to hear from is people that beat on their street machine pretty good yet have seen good service life as well.

I don't see myself spinning past 6500, and with an IA2, Eagle H beams, forged crank and BRC pistons, if it breaks at 6500 then I am just a really unlucky guy, no?

Been on the rev limiter MANY times. Been past 6000 many times before the limiter.

Iv`e beat the sh!t out of many cars in the last 30 yrs. Iv`e seen 8200 on a Honda Prelude and 10,500 on a early SHO Taurus with the Yamaha v6 with ported heads and aftermarket cams. The dome light used to come on while banging gears. No BS.

IA2 block? Don`t sweat it. If it`s built correctly and you don`t pound on it cold, it`ll last forever.

[RamAirIV28]

lots of opinions and lots of advertising hype. not many answers

[Sirrotica]

20,000 miles on 3 year old dino oil with excellent results analyzed by 3rd party company. I guess the life blood of the engine being clean means nothing. 250,000 on my own personal truck, with 20,000 miles over 3 years old oil, I'll have to try harder.

Tough crowd I guess.................

Every part of the Stratostreak engine has been scrutinized and improved upon, except the oil filter system. There are much better choices for this engine, or any engine for that matter than the stock full flow filter system. Remote mounting of over sized filters do nothing to keep the oil analytically clean any better than the the stock filter does. A better system has been around for a long time, yet I know of no one beside myself on this site that use them on Pontiacs or any other car.

[i82much]

Originally Posted by PunchT37

Been on the rev limiter MANY times. Been past 6000 many times before the limiter.

Iv`e beat the sh!t out of many cars in the last 30 yrs. Iv`e seen 8200 on a Honda Prelude and 10,500 on a early SHO Taurus with the Yamaha v6 with ported heads and aftermarket cams. The dome light used to come on while banging gears. No BS.

IA2 block? Don`t sweat it. If it`s built correctly and you don`t pound on it cold, it`ll last forever.

Sweet. Yeah, I drive my daily driver pretty hard too, and I just bought a 396-powered K10 that I beat on pretty good. What can I say, for most people a throttle is meant to operate smoothly over a range of various openings, but I pretty much just use mine as an on-off switch

[HWYSTR455]

Had a 455 roller engine that I had go to 226k miles with full time abuse, at about 125k miles did a valve job. No rev limiter, manual car. Abuse.

I usually rebuild engines in the 100-120k range for general purpose, so parts can be reused (before anything lets go). Most could get away with a re-ring and valve job, but would do bore & pistons because it was apart.

My driver has around 100k on it, total abuse, no rev limiter, just let it scream. Runs great still, though going to go through it, car is ready for a refresh.

True about beating on it before it's warm, and keeping the oil clean (as long as it's in proper tune). Performance engines are built to take abuse, and will last if you use common sense. About the only things that actually wear are cyl wall/pistons, rings, valve guides, and springs. Bearings typically don't wear if the engine is in proper tune and built correctly.

.

[David Jones]

Trying to put this in perspective.
20,000 miles on 3 year old oil.
To get there you change one quart every 3000 miles. (no additions for oil use or leakage?)
Change filters every 3000 miles.
So, when you get to 21,000 miles you'll have "changed" roughly 7 quarts of oil and 7 filters during this period when you didn't change the oil.
To allow this extended period of not changing the oil one needs to spend how much on a Frantz filter system? Their site leads one to believe the product is $225, plus install?
Yes, you have 250,000 miles on your truck.
No big deal these days.
On my current Ford F150 I have 33,000 miles. I've changed the oil 3 times using Mobil 1 and a Purolator filter purchased at Walmart. Seems like 5qts is about $24. The engine holds 7.7qts and to this point uses little to no oil between changes. We'll say 8 qts total over the life of a 10,000 oil change....and one filter. Total oil/filter cost every 10,000 miles is less than $45. For every 100,000 miles I travel my oil change costs will be approx $450.
Will I drive it 250,000 miles? Like most folks, probably not. More like 150,000. Seems like I'll be ahead in time spent and money spent simply by following what Ford recommends?