Canton Oil Pan leak... costly problem

[triathlonx13]

Patty (Canton Racing Inc.)

I received my Oil Pan back last night from your company. Ironically I received my latest issue of High Performance Pontiac magazine that afternoon as well. In the Tech Question and Answers section in the back of the December 2007 issue on pages 96 and 97 an issue was being discussed. Jim Taylor responded by commenting about the design of the 3 & 5 tab type rubber gaskets and problems with the Pontiac and 3 party designed pans. (refer to attached PDF file)

As the story told by Joel Babineau in the article, I to had pulled my motor twice only to send my pan back to your company for a inspection. At no time was I told that the pan design was poor and that this was a common issue. I would expect that after experiencing my testimony and an article that had reached High Performance Pontiac that something could be done. Furthermore, no directions about how to remedy a leaking pan or steps to ensure proper sealing were include with your product. I think a set of fully detail instructions and notifications of potential leak conditions need to be included in your Pontiac designed pans as an interim step until a new design change can be made.

With all things understood about car restoration, racing, and modifications - some allowances need to be understood. In this case I think something was missed on the part of Canton Racing, Inc.

First lets look at the cost of not having proper advanced notice of problems that might occur, detailed instructions of sealing pan to block, and gasket item list (excluding the 3 tab rubber gasket and instruction to use a cork gasket).

See what has been done and what it has cost me....
Cost of paying for first installation of the pan by my engine builder: What's the time involved? an hour...? could be more = $60 per/hr?
Gasket set used the first time. (APROX.) = $20
Silicone adhesive (APROX.) = $10
Materials and labor for the installation cost approximately a total of $90.

Engine installed the First time... pan leaks. OK - now I have to fix the leaking pan.
My time to remove engine = 6 hrs (let's say it's worth $30 per/hr = $180)
My time to remove gaskets and pan = 1 hrs (let's say it's worth $30 per/hr = $30)
My time to reinstall new gaskets and silicone = 1 hrs (let's say it's worth $30 per/hr = $30)
Cost of new pan gaskets (APROX.) = $20
Cost of new Silicone adhesive (APROX.) = $10
My time to re-install engine = 8 hrs (let's say it's worth $30 per/hr = $240)
Cost of new header gaskets = $15
Cost of new Carb gasket = $7
Cost of new oil filter adapter gasket = $5
Cost of engine oil = (8 qrts) = $24
Misc paints, cleaners, wire components (APROX) = $12
Engine installed the Second time... pan leaks. OK - now I have to fix the leaking pan again.

My time to remove engine a second time = 6 hrs (let's say it's worth $30 per/hr = $180)
My time to remove gaskets and pan a second time = 1 hrs (let's say it's worth $30 per/hr = $30)
My time to reinstall new gaskets and silicone a second time = 1 hrs (let's say it's worth $30 per/hr = $30)
Cost of new pan gaskets (APROX.) = $20
Cost of new Silicone adhesive (APROX.) = $10
Cost to ship pan to your company = $20
My time to re-install engine a second time = 8 hrs (let's say it's worth $30 per/hr = $240)
Cost of new header gaskets = $15
Cost of new Carb gasket = $7
Cost of new oil filter adapter gasket = $5
Cost of engine oil = (8 qrts) = $24
Misc paints, cleaners, wire components (APROX) = $12
* new costs yet to be accumulated.

OK - Hopefully Canton Racing Inc is starting to get an idea of the time and cost involved. (Approximately = $1,256) Pretty extreme is what I'm thinking. Plus, to make things worse then this... I missed out on 2 months of track/season time.

In addition to the article I will add that the concentricity of the rear pan radius to block cap radius in not achieved with your design when gasket thickness is taken into consideration. The not concentric gap do not support a uniform compression force along the sealing surface.

As you can now imagine a leaky pan is a fairly large problem that has been frustrating, costly, and discouraging.

[pro-tour79]

Canton does not claim to be in the Pontiac oil pan business and the fact is that Canton uses stampings from over seas that are made with the 3 hole tabe does not make it Canton's problem especialy when it is a factory design I feel that too many these days jump in the game of building their own stuff without the knowlage needed to avoid the pit falls and than blame someone else, this issue with the 3 hole design has been around for over 30 years and has been noted in every book poblished on the Pontiac V8 from Pete Mccarthy, Ken at HO, Jim Taylor and other publications from HO from the 70's as well as having been covered to death on this board and how to seal those pans.

[triathlonx13]

Canton does not claim to be in the Pontiac oil pan business and the fact is that Canton uses stampings from over seas that are made with the 3 hole tabe does not make it Canton's problem especialy when it is a factory design I feel that too many these days jump in the game of building their own stuff without the knowlage needed to avoid the pit falls and than blame someone else, this issue with the 3 hole design has been around for over 30 years and has been noted in every book poblished on the Pontiac V8 from Pete Mccarthy, Ken at HO, Jim Taylor and other publications from HO from the 70's as well as having been covered to death on this board and how to seal those pans.

:confused: Canton "produces, advertises, distributes, warrentees, and sells Pontiac Oil Pans. If that's not claiming to be in the Pontiac Oil pan business then I don't what is??

Most stuff is made over seas... contracted by direction from some one here in the states.

Yup the HHP article (with page reference) states just what you said about the 3 tab design flaw. .... sorta why I made the notation.

I didn't realize that if you knowing re-produce a bad design you can blame or re default back to the original designer... in this case GM

If you want to be the best you need to start with good parts... Anyone can copy crap.

Besides - the folks at Canton did not say the pan was correct... they said it was correct according to their specifiaction. The application of a pan for a Pontiac 400 (others) by their own part list calls for their pan number that gave me the problem. So it's sorta apparent they are making and selling something that doesn't work. Would it make you feel good if I sold you something that I knew that didn't work - and said it did?

This post was intended for further awareness. Seems that to many people on here "these days jump in the game" with out thinking things through.:thanx:

Advice - when selling a product knowing some fabrication or special caution needs to be taken. It's only good business sense to throw a "how to install" sheet in the dam box. I think it's easier then putting people through the ringer or trying to sell them all the books you mention.

[hectore3]

I have the Canton pan also. Have not installed it yet though. What is the secret of avoiding leaks?

[triathlonx13]

hectore3 - What Canton said was to use a thick cork gasket (Butler Pontiac sells them). The gasket will have to be trimmed for length and each end will need to have an angled cut off so that it sits flush on the flat on either side of the radius. then "super glue a thick cork gasket to the block cap (not really sure this is a good Idea - but "Todd the Engineer" at Canton said this "should work"). the thick cork gasket more then likely will need to be "shaped" using a file/etc on the area where the radius terminates on each side of the radius. What you aim for is a uniform compression on the cork gasket along the radius seal. There is a one minute cure black silicone called the right stuff that you can get at any car part store - you needs to add a little of this on the gasket to filling in any small areas. 24 cure. do not over torque your pan bolts. Check out the HHP Magazine article - that will help to. Be patient and take your time ( I bought two cork gaskets up front - just incase I screw up a cut or file to much off)

This is a common problem - not a simple slap it together and go. GOOD LUCK !

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Have installed dozens without issues. But then again I do this for a living. and buying from me gives you the inside info on what to do when installing a pan. And all the available options.

BTW: I have about 200 plus rear pan cork seals I have advertised in the for PY for sale section. Had them cut and made for me.

[pro-tour79]

Triathlonx13 I knew I would get flak for this but ! your last post proved my point the Canton rep gave you the answer on how to deal with the issue ( yes glue the cork to the main cap use the "gorilla sknot" stuff AKA super emblem adhesive) but yet you questioned the advice you were given as if you knew better than he did, the fact is Canton has nor had nothing to do with the design nor the currant stampings from overseas unfortunatly the worst of the 3 Pontiac designs was used to make the stampings and yes they are to spec but not the best specs, BTW check the gasket kit most come with all 3 rear pan gaskets.

[Jagtec1]

I use a Canton pan and a rubber 3 tit rubber seal...some "Right Stuff" dammed up on either side...NOOO leaky! Done it 3 times this way, and not ONE drop.

[triathlonx13]

Triathlonx13 I knew I would get flak for this but ! your last post proved my point the Canton rep gave you the answer on how to deal with the issue...but yet you questioned the advice you were given as if you knew better than he did, the fact is Canton has nor had nothing to do with the design nor the currant stampings from overseas unfortunatly the worst of the 3 Pontiac designs was used to make the stampings and yes they are to spec but not the best specs, BTW check the gasket kit most come with all 3 rear pan gaskets.

Well again - I'm glad you got your rocks off Pro. And yup "I" had the conversation with Canton, and it was my view point the this "Engineer" was not a sharp tool. It's ok that you don't really understand about contract manufacturing over seas or promoting/selling/warrantying products. Like I said in my last post... My post was to inform my experiences with a poor pan design and cost and time that can be involved. Unfortunately there are a lot of guys out there that have had this same issues - probably with other pans. Talking with a few guys at my local track, Norwalk, and English town.... Hearing that this has happenned about 4 out of ten guys... just shows that improvements can be made in the pan instructions or actually redesign the dam thing. Do you think that an instruction sheet shouldn't be included with the pan? Do you think there is room for improvement?

Note: My Post was a copy of what I sent to Canton with pdf files of the HHP Article.:)

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Who was the engine builder that installed that pan that leaked?

Was it the stock replacement type pan?

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Canton does not claim to be in the Pontiac oil pan business and the fact is that Canton uses stampings from over seas that are made with the 3 hole tabe does not make it Canton's problem especialy when it is a factory design I feel that too many these days jump in the game of building their own stuff without the knowlage needed to avoid the pit falls and than blame someone else, this issue with the 3 hole design has been around for over 30 years and has been noted in every book poblished on the Pontiac V8 from Pete Mccarthy, Ken at HO, Jim Taylor and other publications from HO from the 70's as well as having been covered to death on this board and how to seal those pans.

I do have to agree on this statement. I personally like the holes in th rear seal area of the pan as it allows the Cork gasket to squeeze thru and stay in place. Glad they kept them as it is a bi*tch to keep in place with the raised area on the early pan and no recess in the block.

[pro-tour79]

well my first post was realy to high litght a trend that I see over all in the hoby that being said, the 3 hole pan is a Pontiac design not an after market design but when and if the engine is not built by a professional that knows what to do with factory designs that are troublesome the DYers are quick to blame others and expect something for their lack of knowlage this is why I noted that this has been an issue with this design pan for over 30 years and has been mentioned over and over on how to deal with it, this is why DYers should read up on how to do the job they want to do and with Pontiacs it's very easy there are only 3 books out there plus all the news letters and mag. articles from HO racing that I believe are still available from Ken at HO
and in fact as P-dude mentioned good thing the pan was not made after the old design with no hole because it would have caused a problem on the later blocks that don't have a groved rear main cap I do agree that the bes would be to stamp the pans with the late 5 hole design but obviously Tawain manufacturers don't feel this would be cost effective (so yes I do understand something about manufacturing ;) )

[triathlonx13]

well my first post was realy to high litght a trend that I see over all in the hoby that being said, the 3 hole pan is a Pontiac design not an after market design but when and if the engine is not built by a professional that knows what to do with factory designs that are troublesome the DYers are quick to blame others and expect something for their lack of knowlage this is why I noted that this has been an issue with this design pan for over 30 years and has been mentioned over and over on how to deal with it, this is why DYers should read up on how to do the job they want to do and with Pontiacs it's very easy there are only 3 books out there plus all the news letters and mag. articles from HO racing that I believe are still available from Ken at HO
and in fact as P-dude mentioned good thing the pan was not made after the old design with no hole because it would have caused a problem on the later blocks that don't have a groved rear main cap I do agree that the bes would be to stamp the pans with the late 5 hole design but obviously Tawain manufacturers don't feel this would be cost effective (so yes I do understand something about manufacturing ;) )

Yup - it's clear you're just one of the d-heads in the world. Missed the point completely... maybe you should log off your step Dad's computer.

[triathlonx13]

Who was the engine builder that installed that pan that leaked?

Was it the stock replacement type pan?

Canton oil pan p/n = 15-450

Local Engine builder, Mike Felt. Been building a variety of motor makes for 20 or more years.

About the tab holes. I have talked to a few guys that ended up welding them shut ???

Thanks for you comments - any positive suggestions/help is what makes this site a good source of information.

[triathlonx13]

I use a Canton pan and a rubber 3 tit rubber seal...some "Right Stuff" dammed up on either side...NOOO leaky! Done it 3 times this way, and not ONE drop.

Thanks for the tip - I'm starting the job tonight. Hopefully can get the car back on the street for some seat time !

[triathlonx13]

Have installed dozens without issues. But then again I do this for a living. and buying from me gives you the inside info on what to do when installing a pan. And all the available options.

BTW: I have about 200 plus rear pan cork seals I have advertised in the for PY for sale section. Had them cut and made for me.

After this large "lesson" I'm sure I will be an expert on at least sealing this pan:-ohwell:

Just goes to show that there is room for improvent - which is a good thing.

[pro-tour79]

well personal name calling is the last bastion of someone who's intelligence has run out!

[quicksilver97ta]

hectore3 - What Canton said was to use a thick cork gasket (Butler Pontiac sells them). The gasket will have to be trimmed for length and each end will need to have an angled cut off so that it sits flush on the flat on either side of the radius. then "super glue a thick cork gasket to the block cap (not really sure this is a good Idea - but "Todd the Engineer" at Canton said this "should work"). the thick cork gasket more then likely will need to be "shaped" using a file/etc on the area where the radius terminates on each side of the radius. What you aim for is a uniform compression on the cork gasket along the radius seal. There is a one minute cure black silicone called the right stuff that you can get at any car part store - you needs to add a little of this on the gasket to filling in any small areas. 24 cure. do not over torque your pan bolts. Check out the HHP Magazine article - that will help to. Be patient and take your time ( I bought two cork gaskets up front - just incase I screw up a cut or file to much off)

This is a common problem - not a simple slap it together and go. GOOD LUCK !
Seems like canton would make this info clear in some instructions or notes with the new pan. :rolleyes: Might have saved you a couple of re-installs and time spent talking to Todd. LOL Hope you get her sealed up and on the road.

[screamingchief]

This is a joke,,,right???

I mean Pro-tour is right in the fact that this issue has been around since GM stamped the first pans with the three prong seal,it's the whole reason the 5 prong seal came into existance...

But the diehard pontiac guys laughed at the "engineers" who re-designed the whole deal and said "that's all right,we figured out how to use the 3 prong pans no problemo".

Seems it's overly anal engineers who think they know better that have problems with this stuff.

Why the aftermarket pan core stampers settled on that pan seal design as the "standard" pan core likely has something to do with the fact that GM probably sold the old tooling for those pans outright and that's likely what the aftermaket pan stampers use now,that or they copied that tooling.

As I recall all the replacement GM pans sold up till very recently use the 5 prong rubber seal,so whoever stamps those pans for GM probably still holds the tooling for those pans,and they probably have zero desire to supply cores for the aftermarket pan builders,that or the cores would'nt be cost competitive to the three prong pan cores,simple business economics 101.

I make my own cork seals for my pans,use them regardless of what style of pan goes on there,and what rear cap surface is used,and I never have any leaks.

Just get some .250" thick cork sheet and cut the seals yourself,takes about as long to do that as it takes to read my post,make it about twice as wide as the OE cork rear pan seals and there is simply no way it cant seal when installed with common sense,cut the ends at the proper angle and your done.

Now could canton do more to address that,I dunno I guess they could if they really wanted to,my advice would be to cut a bunch of cork seals like I described and include the damn things with the pan,but they're a business and I guess they feel like that would mean they'd hafta pass that expense on to the customers and that would likely hurt their sales,and after all business is about the bottom line right???

But living in a bubble for years and then lashing out at those who try to explain why others feel this is a non-issue is no better an attitude than canton has shown you.

If you want I have pics of how I make the cork seals,ask nicely and I'll post them.

JMO/FWIW.
:2cents:

[the-rookie]

Well I see Screaming Chief beat me to the punch. I'm running almost the same pan 15-452, no leaks but then again "Ace" installed this one.

[pro-tour79]

I could apologize for steering the pot in the first place but that would make me an apologetic liberal instead of opening eyes to the facts, I'm just tired of seeing more and more complaints and finger pointing and just jump on the internet to voice our complaints and in this casse blame the wrong party instead of finding info on what causes the problem and fixing the problem, I'll stop now !

[BlueGTO]

I find it odd it takes him 14 hours to pull and reinstall a moter so thoes numbers seem a little padded to me, well alot really.I fail to see how you can add up numbers like that owning a car like this as a hobby and your time spend on the car is free. You are saying if you go wax your car for $45.00 time and material included and a bird craps on it it would be another $45.00 out of your pocket.

I have a canton pan on my GTO had it has never leaked a drop.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Canton oil pan p/n = 15-450

Local Engine builder, Mike Felt. Been building a variety of motor makes for 20 or more years.

About the tab holes. I have talked to a few guys that ended up welding them shut ???

Thanks for you comments - any positive suggestions/help is what makes this site a good source of information.

Weld shut? why. As I stated they serve to hold the cork gasket in place........... along with grey silicone. Slots work better then holes. more 'cork meat' lol thru the pan. ;)

[pro-tour79]

Ken, just watch that "cork meat" around the rotating crankshaft cause that could cause a leak :bolt:

[Jagtec1]

I glue the pan gasket to the pan with the "Right Stuff" and let it set up overnight. I use a htin smear of the same sealer on the bottom of the 3 tit rubber seal, and glue it to the pan, making a "dam" in front, and behind of it so it cannot move. Leave it all in place to set up. Next day, I install pan...thin smear of sealer on gasket top, and add some sealer to the rear area. Don't overtorque it! ***I have NO recess in my rear cap! If I had the recess, I would trim fit the cork, and glue it to the CAP before installing pan.

I also use a scraper and Canton windage tray...no leaky.\

HTH.

[tempest455]

I have owned 2 of these pans and never had a leak...........................

Well I take that back, except for when some aluminum rods and parts of the block came through the pan!

:)

I dont think a new gasket was going to fix this!

[stimpy]

[QUOTE=tempest455]I dont think a new gasket was going to fix this![/QUOTE
ah nothing a little duct tape and Jb weld can't fix !!!

[triathlonx13]

Seems like canton would make this info clear in some instructions or notes with the new pan. :rolleyes: Might have saved you a couple of re-installs and time spent talking to Todd. LOL Hope you get her sealed up and on the road.


Hopefully after the HHP article, my stituation, and probably others. They'll try to put together a intruction sheet and include it in the package.

[triathlonx13]

I have owned 2 of these pans and never had a leak...........................

Well I take that back, except for when some aluminum rods and parts of the block came through the pan!

:)

I dont think a new gasket was going to fix this!

Wow ! That looked like it hurt !!:jaw:

[triathlonx13]

Sure - post some pics.

[triathlonx13]

Just to remind some of you that I posted my pan leak experience under "Pontiac Business Entities Exchange Sources, Compliments and Grievances in regard to Pontiac parts or services rendered by an individual or business."

Hopefully some can find the humor in Pro's and my badgering. He's a good sport. I still think my expectations of the pan manufacturer to enclose instructions or change the the design isn't out of bounds.

I'm going to take Dude's advice and give it another try.

[triathlonx13]

One thing to add. I have done 3 other "stock" pans on my other Ponitacs.... never had one problem - no leaks. This was the first time I ever had used a Canton pan.

[superdutybob]

FTR, The Milodon pan that I use was originally stamped with the three tab style rear flange. Failed miserably on the first attempt. Te seal squirted right out the back and caught on the crank flange and pulled out a 1" long section. Can you say oil leak?

I modified the pan with a Dremel to accept the 5 tab seal. Careful preparation and cure time and now it does not leak a drop.

[Skip Fix]

EVERY aftermarket pan uses this same pan as a core. Milodon(my leak-dropped the pan in the car added liberal gorilla snot and fairly well sealed) Moroso and Canton. They copied it from Pontiac I believe from 71-73 or so. So you can thank Pontiac engineers for that design.

Alos if you even just lay the 3 tit piece on the cap or the pan everyone I have is a hair longer and will not stay on a straight line with the bolt holes lined up, so it has to move and the half round edge lets it creep easily.

I personally convert all my 3 tit pans to 5 tit late model seals with a Dremel. No problems with my current Canton done that way.

Lots of posts here on how to fix the original Pontiac design.

[x-bird2]

Just about finished with a re-do on mine after exactly the same occurrence as with the rubber seal and canton pan as superdutybob described. decided to do the rear main as well since there was so much oil under the car i hated the thought of just doing the pan and finding a main leak was going on at the same time. found a scored main bearing, no damage to the crank, so in this instance, maybe the valdez episode was a good thing. i've got a few rolls of 1/4 inch sheet cork, so after a bit of belt sander time and 3 tries, i came up with a gasket that worked very nicely--though start up tomorrow will tell the rest of the story. one thing i noticed with the rubber seal; with it in place in the pan, there was at least 1/16-in. difference between each side in regards to how far the ends sat above the pan rails. sitting it on the block, it was clear that even after torquing it in place, it would take gobs of sealer at the base of the cap to close it up.

[triathlonx13]

Just about finished with a re-do on mine after exactly the same occurrence as with the rubber seal and canton pan as superdutybob described. decided to do the rear main as well since there was so much oil under the car i hated the thought of just doing the pan and finding a main leak was going on at the same time. found a scored main bearing, no damage to the crank, so in this instance, maybe the valdez episode was a good thing. i've got a few rolls of 1/4 inch sheet cork, so after a bit of belt sander time and 3 tries, i came up with a gasket that worked very nicely--though start up tomorrow will tell the rest of the story. one thing i noticed with the rubber seal; with it in place in the pan, there was at least 1/16-in. difference between each side in regards to how far the ends sat above the pan rails. sitting it on the block, it was clear that even after torquing it in place, it would take gobs of sealer at the base of the cap to close it up.

Good Luck! I pan re-enforcement brackets and tried a few times to sand cork gaskets before I got it right. I have no leaks yet... so that's good. But there is room for improvent on these pans and instructions (with pictures) should be included since this is a known problem.:usa2:

[x-bird2]

after a 2500 rpm break in run, i put about 30 miles on it today with about 5 different stops. all is well, not a drop coming off anything, and that's with an accusump in it, the AN fittings on which have given me a few seepage fits. Now for the fun part i didn't mention above, silly me forgot to fully seat the convertor the other night and fought it for 3 hours trying to mate the block and trans. next morning, still scratching my head and fighting it, i get the motor wedged on an angle. ( pop it free finally, go to take care of some business and find about 5 quarts of cam2 oil on the floor when i return! i holed the pan on the brake clip bolt on the rear of the subframe crossmember. pulled the engine back out, drained the pan, migged the hole shut and thought about the convertor. hopped in, rotated it, and thunk, in another 3/4 in. or so it went. installing and buttoning up the motor was a breeze after that--until i went to hook up hte battery and found the starter end of the positive cable. that's one heck of a pain to get in with 2-inch supercomps in the way! I must be getting senile, i used to put this thing back together in a day's time. Just glad to see a dry floor underneath it though, made it all worthwhile.

[johnsma22]

When I was in the process of installing my Miloden oil pan I had read the negative press on the 3 tab rubber rear pan seals. I took the cork rear pan seal that came in my gasket set, wrapped it around a soup can and held it in place with a rubber band. I let it set like that overnight to take the shape of the can. Then I cleaned the rear main cap with brake cleaner and glued the cork seal to the cap with contact adhesive. I used a little "Right Stuff" on each end, cemented the rest of the pan gaskets to the pan with contact cement and installed it. A little Loctite on all the bolts and it's been in service for two years without any leaks. I wish I could say the same for my leaking rear main rope seal!!!

[Brian Baker]

I've used the Canton pan, with the 3-tit rubber seal, glued in place with grey Permatex, with a scraper down one side of the pan (if that doesn't pull the rear seal area off concentric, I don't know what will). Never had a leak.

[x-bird2]

Johnsma22 ... "I wish I could say the same for my leaking rear main rope seal!!!"

I installed a DCI graphite rear main rope. i could tell right away that it was much better than the replacement rope seals that have been out since they did away with the asbestos as the ends of the DCI seal were kind of gushy where they'd mate. i've had leakers with the non asbestos rope and the viton seals. i've got a good feeling about this latest one.

[johnsma22]

Johnsma22 ... "I wish I could say the same for my leaking rear main rope seal!!!"

I installed a DCI graphite rear main rope. i could tell right away that it was much better than the replacement rope seals that have been out since they did away with the asbestos as the ends of the DCI seal were kind of gushy where they'd mate. i've had leakers with the non asbestos rope and the viton seals. i've got a good feeling about this latest one.

I'm glad to hear about your experience with the graphite rope seal. I'm planning on stroking my motor over the winter. I read the thread here about the graphite rope seal and all the positive results thus far and will probably give it a try. Does DCI sell a complete engine gasket kit to go with the main seal?

[x-bird2]

Yes, Don has pretty much anything you'd need for a complete rebuild. I really like the quality of the gaskets that he's getting through Best Gasket Co. It's nice to see that there are still guys out there working with 3rd party manufacturers/vendors to bring new product to the pontiac market even if there's already other choices available (Fel-Pro) etc.

[johnta1]

johnsma22, I put the cork seal inside the can.
It takes the shape and you don't have to rubber band it.:)

[johnsma22]

johnsma22, I put the cork seal inside the can.
It takes the shape and you don't have to rubber band it.:)

Great idea johnta1! At the time I didn't have an open can, and I wasn't hungry. :D