Taking the plunge: LS3 into a '64 Tempest

[68Prix]

b-man, that is coming together nice. That is going to be a fun car when you get it done. Thanks again for sharing with us all. Pat

[b-man]

.....on the crossmember tonight.

Fitted it up and found that the tips didn't match up to the frame.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02800.jpg

A little bit of careful bending in the bench vise took care of that.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02801.jpg

I scrounged up an old bracket made of flat steel plate that just happened to match up with the .135" material thickness of the crossmember to cut up for the filler pieces. After some work with a Sawzall and grinder it's now ready to weld.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02802.jpg

Now to hit up my friend with the MIG welder for a favor. :)

[jime1]

This is my new all-time favorite PY forums thread. Go B-man! That is going to be one fine Tempest.

[b-man]

.....from the bottom of the car.

I knew there was probably a 1% chance of them going in, and of course they didn't. The next time the engine is out they'll have to be set in place in the engine bay and the LS3 will have to be carefully dropped down onto the mounts.

Well, at least I took a picture of them. :)

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02803.jpg

While I had the exhaust system on my mind I spent a little time modifying the muffler hangers, this pretty much consisted of making a couple brackets from 1-1/4" X 1/8" angle iron to bolt onto the hangers. I need to have a center to center distance of 26" for the muffler outlets and the hangers currently put them at 24".

That's all for tonight, gotta keep chipping away at it.

[b-man]

.....with Yukon Performance 3.42 gears has been custom-built for the Tempest by Jim Mitschke of JD Race & Restoration in Richfield Ohio (1 330 990 8155) and is now almost ready to ship.

I chose Jim Mitschke (monzaz on Performance Years) to build this rear end because I thought that his small shop that specializes in Muscle Car differentials would pay more attention to detail and build it like it was his own. I have seen Jim advertising and selling quite a few rear ends on PY over the past few years with many satisfied customers so I figured I would contact him.

I wanted the '71 -'72 Buick 8.5" rear mainly for its strength and for the tapered bearing bolt-in axles, not to mention it's a direct bolt-in on any '64 -'72 GM A-body. I asked Jim to modify the spring perches so I could use the earlier '64 -'66 springs that bolt onto the perch with a clamp plate. A pair of poly bushings will be pressed into the upper control arm mounts on the housing.

Upgrades include a new Eaton 30-spline clutch-type posi (replacing the stock 28-spline unit) that's known for its durability and long-wearing clutch packs. A new set of Moser 30-spline axles were added as well, not only for the added strength but it was the easiest way to get the 5 on 120mm bolt pattern I need to run my BMW-spec aftermarket 18X9" wheels. The axles will come with M12X1.5 studs that are about 1.75" to 2" long to better accomodate the C6 Z06 rotors that are .280" thick at the hub.

These are just a couple of the many pics that Jim sent me during the build, this unit will be shipped out to me next week. Thanks for the great communication, pics and fine customer service Jim!

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/tempestrear0013.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/tempestrear0032.jpg

This rearend is the last big expense on the Tempest build. I'll be able to take the Tempest to the dragstrip once or twice without fear of shelling the diff, and do a little bit of 'spirited' driving when I want to.

I'll still have to spend a couple of grand before it's all done on a new headliner, windshield, radiator hoses, serpentine belt, tranny dipstick tube, wiring, and all of the little things that nickle and dime you to death.

Coming along. :)

[b-man]

.....so I can move forward on fitting up the trans, so this morning I spent some time modifying my old floor jack. I had a couple of pieces of 12" X 12" X .200" plate that were already the perfect size and thickness to do the job.

First I drilled and tapped a couple of holes 3/8-16 coarse thread in the jack base and then drilled the bottom plate to match and bolted it down. Next I drilled and tapped another 3/8-16 hole in the center front of the bottom plate so I could use a jacking screw to change the angle of the top plate as needed. A couple of 1/2-13 bolts and nuts are loosely attached at the rear corners so the plates can hinge, some 1/2" clearance holes were already drilled in all 4 corners of the plates.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02830.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02831.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02832.jpg

Nothing fancy but it's plenty stable and will do the job. The cost was right in my budget, zero dollars.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02833.jpg

Now to grab my big 2-1/2 pound hammer and have at it. :)

[6 Grrrs]

Great idea & it looks like it'll do the job, but you may want to put some type of retainer to keep the trans from falling off. Maybe just a piece of angle iron standing up in the front & back of the plate.

Just lookin' out for ya...I want to see this project completed & it would be tough to do with a transmission stuck in the side of your head ;)

[Mr_GTO]

Awesome work, thanks for documenting it.

[b-man]

.....gently massaging the trans tunnel.

Nothing gentle about it, I'm pretty beat from laying on my back underneath the car swinging that big hammer. There was quite a bit of clearancing needed, I probably had the trans in and out about 15 times before I had the clearance I needed. The trans jack made this difficult job much easier to take on.

Driver's side, checking where to start hammering.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02834.jpg

Driver's side, after a lot of hammering sessions. Note how much higher the trans now tucks up into the tunnel. There are spots where there is less than 1/4 inch of clearance, both in the areas I clearanced up front and further back over the top of the trans where I didn't need to do any work.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02838.jpg

Passenger side before any tunnel mods, the trans cooler line fittings will come close by the time I get further into this. The 90-degree fittings were and absolute must.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02835.jpg

Passenger side again, after the onslaught. Note again how much higher the trans tucks into the tunnel. I also ended up hammering for clearance above the cooler fittings and took the corner off the top one with a file.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02840.jpg

Banged in the floor pan by about an inch to make clearance here, I'll have to do some patching to repair the thin rusted metal that cracked.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02842.jpg

A look inside on the passenger side, I drew a line with a black Sharpie to better show the area that was modified.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02844.jpg

Driver's side, more work was needed on this side due to the less open shape of the tunnel.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02843.jpg

It was more work than I had expected, but the trans sits up nice and high where it belongs and my modified stock crossmember will work perfectly.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02845.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02849.jpg

Profile shot, plenty of ground clearance.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02848.jpg

Passenger side head clearance to firewall with the trans in place. In order to mate the trans up to the engine I have to let the engine tilt back on the mounts until the bolt on the back of the head comes to within about 1/4" to 3/8" of the firewall.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02850.jpg

Driver's side head to firewall clearance.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02851.jpg

Looks like there's plenty of room for the trans dipstick tube I still need to buy.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02852.jpg

Fitted up the passenger side header from underneath the car. I had to remove my temporary engine support crossmember to get it in there, still a tight squeeze. I also found that I'll need to install my new lower control arms before the headers go in, there's no way to remove the rear control arm bolt with the header in place at least on this side. I made a quick attempt at putting in the driver's side header, but it looks like the steering shaft needs to come out first (this is mentioned in the brief installation instructions from Edelbrock).

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02853.jpg

I accomplished one of the bigger tasks this weekend, the trans now fits and my crossmember modification won't need anymore tweaks. After I get the crossmember welded I'll fabricate a couple of 3/16" thick reinforcement plates to bolt underneath the tips where the crossmember attaches to the frame.

Happy Father's Day! :)

[b-man]

.....after work today and fabbed up the reinforcement plates I need to securely mount the trans crossmember to the frame.

The lower plate that supports the ends of the crossmember is made of 3/16" steel plate, the upper plate that will sit on top of the frame rail is .140" thick.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02858.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02859.jpg

I decided to use three 5/16-18 flat socket head screws for a neater appearance so you won't see any fasteners from the side of the car. The two 1/4" fasteners holding the plate are temporary, I'll use some 1/4-28 hex bolts.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02860.jpg

I was able to scrounge all the materials I needed from my stash, it's good thing I never throw anything away (although my wife would most certainly disagree with that).

Another little job out of the way. :)

As a side note, I found out that changing out the centerlink and such for parts from a different brand GM A-body won't make any difference. I'll dimple the oil pan a little and live with the reduced turning radius, it's good thing I'm removing the B-body spindles as they just compound this issue.

[andrewb70]

photobucket fail :-)

Andrew

[b-man]

Pics will all return on the 28th when a new 'bandwidth month' starts. :D

This month has been pretty heavy out in the garage, and I like to take too many pics. ;)

[Ollie]

Can never take too many photos to document this install. Keep up the good work.

[b-man]

.....arrived via truck freight last Tuesday, so today I took some time to get it ready to install.

I did a little grinding on the driver's side upper control arm to provide clearance between the control arm pivot area and the top of the differential housing. A big thank you to member gearheads78 (Richard) on the Pro-Touring forums for the heads-up on this mod. Just goes to show that you need to pre-fit all of your new aftermarket components whenever possible.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02870.jpg

Here you can see the tight clearance between the arm and the housing after grinding. It's a bummer when you have to grind on a freshly powder coated brand-new component, but a little black enamel takes care of the minor touchup needed.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02871.jpg

I took the threaded ends of the arms apart and added a little more moly grease to the threads, I was glad to see they came with a decent amount of proper lube on them. These parts almost look too pretty to hide up underneath the car.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02872.jpg

Here's the new 3.42-geared Eaton posi-equipped Buick A-body rear end with the Moser 30-spline axles and all of the KORE3 C6 Z06 rear brake adapter parts and internal parking brake components laid out.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02874.jpg

The KORE3 kit comes with all of the proper spacers and brackets necessary to make the Corvette brakes a true bolt-on installation. The fully-machined billet aluminum parking brake backing plates are a true work of art, this high-quality kit was worth every penny.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02873.jpg

A look at the parking brake assembly before the rotor is installed.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02875.jpg

From the back side, the caliper and bearing retainer bracket is one piece.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02876.jpg

From the top you can see the series of spacers as they stack up to make everything fit. First a .105" thick spacer between the bearing retainer/caliper bracket and the housing end, next two .250" thick spacers between the retainer/caliper bracket and backing plate. Last there is a steel plate about .100" thick between the aluminum backing plate and the four 3/8-16 flanged self-locking nuts that hold everything in place.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02877.jpg

Both 13.4" rotors and 4-piston calipers are now installed to check for fit. These things are monsters! :eek:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02878.jpg

These should help haul this soon to be very fast Tempest down quickly. Good brakes = a safer car. :cool:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02879.jpg

That's all for today, tomorrow I'm hoping to be able to stuff this assembly under the car and check out how well my new 18X9" rear wheels & 275/40-18 tires will fit back there. :)

Hope you all had a great 4th of July, I sure did! :usa2:

[Skip Fix]

Taper bearings on the rear axles for cornering?

Man looks like a cool deal, should send the pics into a magazine!

[b-man]

.....after work today, I stopped by the local Pep Boys and picked up a couple of 40" lengths of 3/16" brake line on the way home.

I ended up using 33.5" of line on the driver's side and 36" on the passenger side, owning a decent flaring tool is a must when shortening pre-made hard lines or making up new ones. The difference in line length was due to the offset location of the brake line tee on the top of the differential housing. The 8.5 rear has a cast-in bolt boss on top that's tapped for 5/16-18 thread to mount the tee, unlike the 8.2 rear these cars came with that use a bracket attached to the top cover bolt to mount the tee.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02887.jpg

I bought some FlexKORE (TM) brake lines from KORE3 for the entire brake system to replace all of the flexible rubber lines, top-quality parts that will last forever and give better braking performance. I had to make sure that the FlexKORE lines were mounted in such a way that would allow the caliper to be pulled off the rotor for pad changes without disconnecting the lines.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02886.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02889.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02888.jpg

I filled the rear end with 2.5 quarts of Castrol 80W-90 gear oil (no synthetic for limited-slip units) and a 4oz bottle of GM #1052358 Limited Slip Additive, after 1000 miles I'll dump the oil and refill with new. With the gear lube taken care of and the brake lines completed it's finally ready to install this weekend for sure. :)


Moving forward.

[b-man]

.....on the rear end install, I got up at 7AM because I knew it would be a long day out in the garage.

I pushed the Tempest out and laid out all of the rear suspension pieces: Currie Currectrac control arms, Global West S-60 springs, 1" rear sway bar, Bilstein shocks and some Hotckis mounting braces to reinforce the frame. I found that I was missing a couple of bolts that I needed for the Hotchkis mounting braces (used parts generously given to me by PY member Colin Frolick along with the 1" sway bar), so after spending a few hours removing the old rear end I headed to NAPA and picked up the Grade 8 bolts.

I laid the new adjustable upper control arms next to the stock ones and slipped some bolts through them both. I adjusted the length on the new ones so they would match the stock ones to have a good baseline to start out with. I pumped all of the Johnny Joints and urethane bushings full of grease while I had easy access.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02890.jpg

Out with the old.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02891.jpg

I had read about the tight fit of the Currie arms to the frame mounting points, and sure enough there was about .010" of interference.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02896.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02894.jpg

I used a slide hammer with a hook attachment and gave it about 3 hard knocks, this opened up the clearance that I needed. The mounting points are crushed inward a little by the previous tightening of the old suspension parts, it's not a big deal to open them back up again.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02898.jpg

Control arms and mounting braces installed. On the lower arm on the pasenger side the very front end of the Currie arm interfered with the mounting bracket on the frame. I removed the arm and hammered the center of the mount in about 1/16" to get the clearance I needed.

As you can see in the picture below, this was as low as the arm would pivot downward before doing the clearancing. You must remove the front grease zerk before installing these and put it back in when you're all finished, otherwise you'll break it off as the arm pivots down while putting the rear end in.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02893.jpg

In with the new. :)

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02899.jpg

All buttoned-up. No sway bar installed yet nor any brake pads.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02901.jpg

Suspension at full droop, shocks fully extended.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02900.jpg

Rear end install complete, back down to earth.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02904.jpg

I'm really liking the contrast of the black wheels and the red Corvette Z06 calipers. :cool:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02905.jpg

I'm stoked.

[b-man]

.....from the weld shop today, it came out looking pretty good.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02906.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02909.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02908.jpg

The welding on the crossmember was done by Jeff Moore at Chassis Fab in Acton CA.
http://www.chassisfab.com/
Jeff does top-quality work and has a fully-equipped shop that can easily handle the small jobs like this one or bigger projects requiring extensive chassis fabrication.

Now I'll be able to get the trans mounted in the car, this should add enough weight to make it easier to remove the front springs when I swap the old front end components for the new ones. :cool:

[fbrown]

While I'm thinking about this I should warn you to test fit your trans-dipstick with the engine and transmission out of the car. After I got the right bellhouse for my transmission the dipstick tube I had would not work. I used a 2000 Camaro tube, but I had to cut part of the mounting bracket off and bend the tube slightly to clear the back of the engine block. This would be next to impossible to do with the engine/transmission installed in the car. Maybe a tube from a truck might fit with no mods, but I already had the Camaro tube.

[gto65lvr]

Bart,

Have you checked into the new rack and pinion units for our A bodys, Flaming river sells them for a god awful 2500

Performance online has a similar setup for 1150.00

The nice thing about it is it eliminates the alternator to steering box clearance issue, However I don't know if the AutoKraft pan will interfere with the rack setup.

I am collecting parts for my own 65 LS1 swap. Going to plan to use the same pan as you and the E headers.

Like the looks of the Rack and pinion but.............

[b-man]

Eric,

Rack & pinion steering is definitely not going to be part of this build, I'm already tapped-out with all of the unplanned upgrades I've made to the brakes and suspension. I have a nice Lee 12.7:1 power steering box in the car that's 20 years old and still going strong.

I was already having issues with the deep backspacing on the 18X9" front wheels, the rim was hitting the rearmost tube on the Hotchkis upper control arms near full steering lock. I bought the SPC adjustable uppers to gain some clearance there (straight adjuster vs outward curved tube) and it just sort of snowballed into a complete front end upgrade.

The limited turning radius won't be any big deal. It was already reduced with the B-body spindles with their longer steering arms (I hardly noticed the reduced radius), the new ATS spindles will give me some turning radius back so it's probably a wash.

Having the tierod end (grease zerk removed, a plug in there instead) touch the pan once in a while won't hurt it. If the new SPC upper arms don't have enough clearance to prevent the rim from rubbing, the limited travel of the centerlink will. ;)

Bart

[b-man]

.....and took another step forward. The weather cooled down into the mid to low 90s today, last weekend it was close to 110 degrees :gag: and just too hot to do anything.

I put the Tempest up high on small wooden pallets once again and removed the passenger side header. The headers need to be out of the way so I can remove the lower control arm bolts, a complete front suspension upgrade is my next task. While doing some fitting and checking I found that with the transmission bellhousing just barely touched one of the passenger side header tubes right where the starter goes. I knocked off the corner of the bellhousing with a large flat file to give the header tube some clearance.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02917.jpg

Next I bolted the trans up to the engine. I bolted the finished trans crossmember to the trans mount and jacked it up tight against the bottom of the frame.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02918.jpg

After drilling three 5/16" holes in each side of the frame using the crossmember holes as a guide I bolted the trans crossmember in place using the upper and lower reinforcement plates I made previously.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02919.jpg

The crossmember and lower reinforcement plate hang a little over 5/16" below the bottom of the frame rail.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02921.jpg

Right above the exhaust clearance hump you can just get your finger between the top of the crossmember and the floorpan, about 1/2" to 5/8" of clearance.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02924.jpg

Finally, I would like to thank my two daily drivers for their patience, putting up with numerous cold starts when they're getting moved around and for braving the hot sun all day whenever the Tempest is getting attention. :cool: They're both very spoiled and really hate sitting outside.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02916.jpg

Now there is finally enough weight over the front end to start to compress the springs, the added weight of the 4L70E trans got the front suspension off of the upper bump stops.

Next up is all of the front suspension and brake work, stay tuned.

[b-man]

.....by removing all of the old front end components.

I put the Tempest up on two large 6-ton jackstands and removed the wheels, then removed both front shocks and the sway bar end links. Next I loosened up the tie rod adjusters, but left the tie rods attached for now so they would help keep the spindles from moving while loosening up all 4 of the ball joint castle nuts.

After removing the cotter pins and loosening the ball joint castle nuts by a few turns I used a 12" long by 1" diameter brass bar as a drift to knock them loose from the tapered holes in the spindle. After only a couple of hard raps on the ball joint studs with a 2-pound hammer they popped right out of the spindle, against the loosened castle nut. The brass bar is long enough to do all of your hammering clear of the suspension parts, plus you can get a good swing with the hammer.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02925.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02926.jpg

Next I put my floor jack with a 2X6 wood block underneath the control arm spring pocket and jacked it up enough to remove the tension against the castle nuts. After removing the castle nuts I let the jack down just enough to get the spindle assembly out, I disconnected the brake hose at the frame bracket beforehand.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02927.jpg

The H-O Racing front springs are fairly short and came out easily after letting the lower control arms all the way down with the jack, I didn't need to use a spring compressor. Having enough weight on the front end is the key to getting away without the need for a spring compressor, along with a short free-height spring.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02928.jpg

To get the upper control arms off I had to remove the rubber spash shields from the inner fenders to get enough room to manuever them out. I also had to take the steering shaft loose from the rag joint coupler on the driver's side and push the steering shaft over as far as possible to get the control arm shaft off the 2 mounting bolts that are pressed into the frame.

Tear down is now complete, all I need to do now is a little cleaning of the suspension attachment points on the frame and I'll be ready to start installing the new parts.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02930.jpg

There's really nothing wrong with the old '78 B-body spindles with 12" rotors, reinforced stock lower A-arms and Hotchkis upper control arms with greasable poly bushings. They truly made a night and day difference in braking and handling over the original factory 9.5" drum brakes and rubber-bushed suspension pieces that had over 140K miles on them.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02929.jpg

I'm replacing them all now with SPC adjustable upper control arms and tubular lowers, American Touring Specialties AFX forged aluminum spindles and C6 Z06 brakes with hopes that I'll see yet another night and day difference in braking and handling.

This is really going to be a fun canyon carver. :)

[Mr_GTO]

Awesome!

[Silver Judge]

Jeez !
That thing's gonna be a helluva ride, handle like a corvette and get you great MPG like a chevette
Nice work as usual B-MAN :cool:

[hellerods]

I am so happy you took on this project so that I can watch all the great progress and see the amount of $$ and hard work, skill , product display. When you finish this badass, come up north and put a whoopin' on my ole chevelle and we will tear up some rubber, burn some fuel, then cool off at the beach drinkin a coupla road sodas and checking out the "poly Dollies" from SLO :>) lol bring that bad dog Poncho on!!!! :boxing::beerchug::drunk::p

[b-man]

Awesome!
Thank you.
Jeez !
That thing's gonna be a helluva ride, handle like a corvette and get you great MPG like a chevette
Nice work as usual B-MAN :cool:
Thanks!
I am so happy you took on this project so that I can watch all the great progress and see the amount of $$ and hard work, skill , product display. When you finish this badass, come up north and put a whoopin' on my ole chevelle and we will tear up some rubber, burn some fuel, then cool off at the beach drinkin a coupla road sodas and checking out the "poly Dollies" from SLO :>) lol bring that bad dog Poncho on!!!! :boxing::beerchug::drunk::pLee,

Thanks for the kind words friend.

It will be a while before the Tempest is ready, but I can oblige your ol' Chevelle with another partner to burn a little rubber with as a preview. My WS6 is always ready to go road trippin', hitting the beach and checking out wine country looks good to me.

Bart :)

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/Red%20Rock%20Canyon/DSC00798.jpg

[hellerods]

Sure thing B-man, bring the vert ( chick magnet ) and I'll be invisable in the
Chevelle!!! How does that work? Like bringing a knife to a gun fight. NOT! LOL I'll take my chances with your ole A-body vrs my ole A-body when you get that Poncho on the road, but you are welcome anytime you need some fresh air and vino and a little SLO life!! :usflag:

[b-man]

.....the new front end today. The weather has cooled down during the last week to the mid to low 90s, so I'd better take advantage of that and get some work done on the Tempest.

New front suspension components laid out, I'll be reusing the H-O Racing front springs.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02932.jpg

I laid the SPC upper control arms over the Hotchkis arms and adjusted the links to get them close to where they'll need to be. Before doing this I took the links apart and put a good coat of moly on the link threads. The curved rear tube on the Hotchkis arm interfered with my 18X9" wheel at near full steering lock, I'm hoping to gain some clearance at that point.

The mounting holes in the new A-body Moog upper ball joints wouldn't line up with the two outward bolt holes in the SPC arms, those two holes are driled a little too far apart. A little work with a rat-tail file to slot the holes inward by .020" each took care of the slight mismatch. The mounting holes are already drilled to .300" in the arms which is plenty of clearance for a 1/4" bolt. I didn't like having to file on my new control arms, but after thinking about how much I had to hammer the crap out of my trans tunnel it didn't seem so bad.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02933.jpg

I bought some new hardware to attach the upper control arms to the frame, the billet aluminum cross shafts are drilled for 1/2" mounting hardware so the original 7/16" bolts wouldn't work. This gave me the opportunity to gain some additional clearance between the headers and the bolts, the new hardware is 1/2" shorter.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02935.jpg

Upper control arm bolted in place. You have to bend the rear corner of the opening in the inner fender inward to clear the rear control arm pivot on the cross shaft, this slight modification was already done to make the old Hotchkis arms fit.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02936.jpg

The bare aluminum AFX spindles and cast aluminum lower spring seats were treated with an aluminum cleaner (Alumiprep #33) with an alodine solution (Alodine #1001) to protect them from corrosion. You can buy them from Aircraft Spruce: http://aircraftspruce.com

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02934.jpg

The SPC lower control arms went in easily using some new 1/2-13 Grade 8 hardware and nylock nuts, these arms already have a 1" drop built into them. After making sure the top of the spring was correctly clocked in the upper spring seat I dropped the aluminum lower seat into the control arm and made sure that it was clocked correctly as well. I was able to pull the lower arm up into postion with the spring in place by hand and slide the jack underneath it, no spring compressor needed.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02937.jpg

AFX spindle is now in place, there's just enough weight in the chassis to compress the spring so the ball joints would mate up with the spindle. The castle nuts on the ball joints were snugged lightly at this point. If I don't like the ride height after the car is fully assembled it will come apart easily so I can either cut the springs or add spring spacers under the spring seats.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02938.jpg

The billet aluminum ATS steering arms are now in place along with the Moog tie rod ends. Most of the major components are not tightened up yet, things will be coming apart a few times to make various adjustments.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02939.jpg

The front suspension assembly is complete enough now that I can see how everything is fitting up, it's looking pretty good at this point.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02940.jpg

Tomorrow I'll try to get the front hubs mounted to the spindles and see how the brakes, wheels and tires fit. :)

[hectore3]

Excellent work documenting this! I am hopefully a few months away from installing my own AFX spindles. And will look to your examples.

[Karch]

Bart, are those new 1/2" bolts an interference fit in the frame, or just slide in? I ask because I have the same arms yet to be installed. I currently have the Hotchkis arms in there, too, thus my inquiry.

Thanks.

[b-man]

Bart, are those new 1/2" bolts an interference fit in the frame, or just slide in? I ask because I have the same arms yet to be installed. I currently have the Hotchkis arms in there, too, thus my inquiry.

Thanks.Steve,

They don't have an interference fit like the factory bolts do with the splined portion just under the bolt head. With the rubber splash shields removed there's easy access to them. I did put some red Loctite under the bolt heads to help keep them in place.

Since the SPC arms are fully adjustable you're not supposed to need any alignment shims so once they're tight you can forget about them. Just in case some shims were needed later I left the bolts a little long so a 1/2" tall stack of shims could be used if needed.

Bart

[Karch]

Thanks Bart. Next question, where did you get these bolts? From SC&C?

Thank you.

[b-man]

Thanks Bart. Next question, where did you get these bolts? From SC&C?

Thank you.No, just regular old Grade 8 bolts from the hardware drawers at my local NAPA. The 17-4 stainless hardware that SC&C sells cost $48, mine cost a quarter of that. I'm not sure if the ones SC&C sells are special bolts like the stock ones with the serrations, I think they're mostly just eye candy.

[b-man]

.....in the garage finishing the front suspension mock-up.

First order of business was to get the SKF racing hubs prepared. For starters, the studs are too long. Since I'm using wheel adapters the studs need to be shortened to match the thickness of the adapters (1.063") plus the thickness of the front brake rotors (.300").

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02941.jpg

I ended up grinding about .400" off the ends of the studs.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02947.jpg

The AFX spindles use two bolts and one stud to mount the hubs. The hubs were designed to use 3 bolts so all three holes are threaded. In order to use the one bottom mounting stud on the AFX spindle I had to drill out the threads in one of the holes with a 1/2" drill bit.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02943.jpg

I had to use a die grinder with a cutting wheel to make some clearance for the nut to turn and to provide a flat area for it to tighten down onto.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02944.jpg

After having a lot of fun hacking on my new hubs they're now bolted in place.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02948.jpg

New 14" rotor and wheel adapter mounted up to the hub. The adapter solves two problems, converting the front bolt pattern from 5 on 4.75" (5 on 120.65mm) to 5 on 120mm and effectively reducing the backspacing on the wheel to 5.507" from 6.57". I had to grind about .060" off the ends of the lug nuts holding the adapter in place for clearance.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02949.jpg

Bolted the wheel in place. No brake calipers yet, not enough time today with all the drilling and grinding going on.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02950.jpg

Looks like there's plenty of clearance between the upper A-arm and the inside of the rim with the wheel turned all the way to the left, the clearance here will increase with the car's full weight on the suspension.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02952.jpg

Set the car on the ground to see how it looks. I'm pretty happy with the ride height considering the amount of weight that still needs to be put back in the car. No seats, front or rear glass, most of the exhaust system out, no belt-driven accessories on the engine, no fluids in the engine or trans, no A/C compressor and no hood or right front fender.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02953.jpg

The AFX spindles have 1" of drop built in, combined with the 1" drop from the SPC lower control arms it's looking like I won't need to trim the front springs.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02955.jpg

I reached my goal of getting the car sitting back down on the ground on all 4 wheels this weekend.

I'm stoked. :)

[Jeff Walker]

I see that the hubs are splined in the inside. are they designed for a shaft to go through them?

That's some pretty looking stuff you are putting on that car.:)

BTW how far over 'budget' are you so far.;):D;)

[b-man]

I see that the hubs are splined in the inside. are they designed for a shaft to go through them?

That's some pretty looking stuff you are putting on that car.:)

BTW how far over 'budget' are you so far.;):D;)The hubs will fit both front and rear on a C6 Corvette, so the splined portion is only used when they're on the rear of the car to engage the axle shafts. Clever cost-saving design that allows one hub to fit both front and rear.

I'm about 5K over my first 'hopeful' 12K estimate on the LSX-related swap parts with the aftermarket A/C included.

That doesn't account for the 8.5" rear end, suspension and brakes or wheels and tires that I decided to add midstream in the project. :D

These projects tend to snowball on you sometimes. Doing it once and doing it right does cost you, but it also saves you from spending more doing it over when you're not really satisfied with the first outcome.

[Karch]

The hubs will fit both front and rear on a C6 Corvette, so the splined portion is only used when they're on the rear of the car to engage the axle shafts. Clever cost-saving design that allows one hub to fit both front and rear.

I'm about 5K over my first 'hopeful' 12K estimate on the LSX-related swap parts with the aftermarket A/C included.

That doesn't account for the 8.5" rear end, suspension and brakes or wheels and tires that I decided to add midstream in the project. :D

These projects tend to snowball on you sometimes. Doing it once and doing it right does cost you, but it also saves you from spending more doing it over when you're not really satisfied with the first outcome.

At least the posts are free :rolleyes:

You are doing a fine job...well done!

[Jeff Walker]

The hubs will fit both front and rear on a C6 Corvette, so the splined portion is only used when they're on the rear of the car to engage the axle shafts. Clever cost-saving design that allows one hub to fit both front and rear.

So then you don't need anything in there to hold the bearing assembly together? I know that some of the hub assemblies like that need something in the center to hold the bearings together.

[b-man]

So then you don't need anything in there to hold the bearing assembly together? I know that some of the hub assemblies like that need something in the center to hold the bearings together.
These hub assemblies are pre-assembled sealed units (complete with ABS speed sensors that I'll never use) that won't come apart with any of the tools I have available, I really wouldn't know where to start even if I did have the tools. ;)

[b-man]

.....just thought I'd post a couple more pics taken on Sunday evening.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02957.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02954.jpg

[Colin Frolick]

b-man what's that silver snorkel over where the heater blower used to be?

[KEN CROCIE]

Bart: Send me your PH#. or gimme a call @ 909-980-1451

[b-man]

b-man what's that silver snorkel over where the heater blower used to be?
That's a leftover from my '64 GTO, part of a cool-air system to feed air from the cowl vents to the air cleaner. I'm going to attempt to use it to feed cooler intake air to the LS3.
Bart: Send me your PH#. or gimme a call @ 909-980-1451Ken, I called and left a message for you. Sending you a PM too.

Bart

[Blone]

This looks like its going to be awesome! I am really digging those wheels!

[b-man]

.....somewhat unfamiliar territory as it's time for me to start installing the wiring harness and controller.

The engine harness part of it is pretty straight-forward, just match up the connectors and plug them in. Figuring out the best place to mount the bulky ECM is a bit of a challenge, there's pretty much no room under the dash for it with the A/C unit and ducting hoses taking up most of the space on the passenger side.

I laid out the harness inside the car to start becoming familiar with it. Everything shown here on the passenger side floor will be on the inside of the firewall. Included is the ECM, pedal harness for the electronic throttle control, fuel pump relay, cruise control wiring, and four 20-amp fuses and power up wires.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02963.jpg

Here on the driver's side the engine harness is laid out. All of the wiring and connectors shown here will have to pass through a 2-1/8" hole in the firewall. Finding a good place to cut that hole is my first task.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02964.jpg

After taking the harness to the engine side of the firewall and plugging it into most of the connectors on the engine and transmission I was able to figure out a good place to run the harness through the firewall. The hole where the throttle cable used to reside looks pretty much ideal.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02962.jpg

After marking the outline of the 2-1/8" hole using a piece of 2-1/8" O.D. exhaust tubing (2" pipe expanded for a slip fit over 2" pipe) I drilled a series of small holes just inside the line.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02968.jpg

A sharp chisel was used to make quick work of the material that was left between the holes, a half-round file finishes off the edges.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02969.jpg

My next dilemma, how to go about getting the harness through this grommet and proerly sealing the grommet to both the firewall and harness.

Clearly the harness can't fiit through the grommet without cutting the I.D. of the grommet. The big harness junction shown here would take about a 1" hole stretched out to 1.5" at the very minimum to pass it through the grommet, the grommet only has a 5/8" hole in it.

What to do? Cut the hole a little bigger and try work the entire engine side of the harness through the grommet, or slice it down one side and just slip it over the main cable bundle. Even if I slice it the 5/8" hole still won't be big enough for the 15/16" diameter main cable bundle to pass through.

Any opinions or personal experiences would be much appreciated.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02965.jpg

Made a little more progress this weekend, thanks for looking! :)

[Old Goat 67]

Bart,

Looking gooder.

I believe I would slice it, trim the small opening to fit main cable, silicone the slice and inside/outside real good and let it sit to harden then snap it in place.

Charles

[6 Grrrs]

I have sliced many grommets in my time. If done properly, you really don't need to silicone. If you do silicone it, I would do it after the grommet is installed in the firewall. Actually, I'd wait until the car is running & done.

Just my .02

[b-man]

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

I think I'll get a new razor blade and slice it so I can spread it and close it over the harness after I feed it all through the hole in the firewall. I agree that it should close up pretty tight after I shove it through the hole in the sheetmetal.

If I need to seal it up around the harness and at the the cut line a little better I'll use some non-hardening black 3M strip caulk to take care of that.

[b-man]

.....through the hole in the firewall today. I carefully deburred and sanded the inside of the hole smooth with 180 grit paper and touched it up with some black paint to keep the edges from rusting beforehand.

Here you can see where the main harness branches off into several smaller ones, that part of the harness will reside just behind the passenger side cylinder head.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02976.jpg

I cut the hole in the grommet to 3/4" using a piece of 3/4" I.D. tubing with the end sharpened, the main harness is about 15/16" in diameter. Using a fresh new razor blade I made a cut in the grommet.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02981.jpg

The engine harness fits pretty nicely, there is enough room for it to tuck against the firewall away from the back of the engine. The grommet went in easily and will need some sealer around the harness later when I'm through messing with it, if I don't like the way it's working out I can buy an aftermarket split grommet later on.

The wiring provided (blue, green & pink) for control of the fan relays can be seen at the very bottom of the pic. I have two Bosch 30 amp relays here (0 332 019 150) that perhaps I can use for the fans, I'm not sure if they're the correct ones to use.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02982.jpg

I need to come up with a bracket or plate to mount the ECM (Engine Control Module) in this spot just to the left of the passenger side kick panel. I can't get it mounted up any higher as it will interfere with the A/C unit. It will be up high enough to be out of the way of my passenger's feet, but still easily accessible.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02983.jpg

I can mount this TCM (Transmission Control Module) unit over the top of the ECM, leaving about an inch of air space between them for cooling airflow.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02978.jpg

With the engine side of the harness out of the way it doesn't look too bad in here. On the driver's side you can see the 4 fuses (#1- Battery, #2- Injection & Ignition, #3- O2 heaters, #4- Fuel pump) which can be mounted right next to the original fuse panel.

On the trans hump is the diagnostic port/check engine light unit. Closer to the firewall on the hump is the wiring rolled up for the cruise control, brake switch (for cruise control disengagement, needs to be a 4 terminal type of brake switch), tach, electric speedo (which I won't be using) and A/C compressor.

On the passenger side is the ECM unit and fuel pump relay. The ETC (electronic throttle control) pedal harness has a little extra length that will need to be looped and tied up. All in all it should be a pretty simple and neat installation when it's done, of course figuring a few things out along the way will be more than just a little challenging.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02987.jpg

Tomorow I'll try to fab up the mounting brackets I need for the ECM and find a home for the fuses, fuel pump relay and diagnostic port/check engine light unit.

[Stuart]

Is there room to mount the ECM above the glove box, under the dash? My daily driver is an old BMW, and that's where they always put their computers. It's out of the way, easy enough to reach for maintenance (just pull the glove box out) and it's not affected by heat. Then, you wouldn't have to make any mods to the kick panel.

[fbrown]

This is where I put mine. There is clearance for the AC duct work, I had the duct work in place when fitting the ECM.

http://peripheraltech.com/gto/web270.jpg

[b-man]

Is there room to mount the ECM above the glove box, under the dash? My daily driver is an old BMW, and that's where they always put their computers. It's out of the way, easy enough to reach for maintenance (just pull the glove box out) and it's not affected by heat. Then, you wouldn't have to make any mods to the kick panel.Taking your suggestion I pulled the ECM up into that region and gave it a long hard look and some thought.

There's just too little room above the glovebox. Some of the space I need is occupied by a flexible A/C ducting hose that needs to travel over the top of the unit to feed the passenger side cooling vent.

The A/C kit comes with it's own plastic glovebox that's about half as deep as the original, you can't get it in unless the dash cluster is removed. The stock glovebox comes out the from the bottom of the dash quite easily, different story with the A/C unit in the way. I really don't want the ECM packed in where I can't get at it easily, I don't mind it being a little exposed to facilitate having easy access to it.

Right now I'm in the middle of making up a pretty nice bracket that will bolt to the firewall and situate the ECM horizontally instead of vertically like I first envisioned. It will hang down by a lot less, stay tuned. :)

[b-man]

.....that I might need in my next lifetime. :)

Lucky for me I found an old bracket in my stash of junk that was already pretty close to what I need to mount the ECM.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02988.jpg

All I need to do now is to remove what doesn't look like an ECM mounting bracket. ;)

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02989.jpg

After trimming 1" off the right side and 1" off the bottom (losing the welded side braces in the process) and drilling & tapping the 4 holes 1/4-28 that mount the ECM the bracket is done. The firewall angles back a bit so I had to increase the 90 degree bend angle of the bracket by about 10 degrees to get the ECM to sit level and tuck up as far as possible.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02991.jpg

The ECM doesn't sit any lower than the bottom of the A/C unit so it will not be in the way of my passenger's feet. I still need to mount the TCM to the front edge of the bracket.

The kick panel didn't need any mods, it still fits just like the factory intended. I can crack open the vent on this side to provide a bit of fresh air flow for both the ECM and A/C unit.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02992.jpg

It's nice to have easy access to these units even if they aren't all that pretty to look at where they're mounted. Making things easier to service whenever possible is constantly on my mind during this build.

Well, that killed most of my day. Just figuring out what to do and finding whatever materials you need to proceed takes a lot of time, in a fully-equipped shop things definitely go a lot faster.

[b-man]

.....in the garage finishing up mounting the control units today. Once you get some major items in place it makes finding places for the other little things a bit easier.

The TCM found a home next to the ECM. The ECM mounts on four .300" tall standoffs made of 3/8" O.D. brake line tubing. Both units can be bolted to the mounting plate first, then the plate mounts on two 1/4-20 X 3/4" studs on the firewall.

The two studs are actually button head screws threaded into the firewall from the engine side after tapping the sheetmetal 1/4-20. They were snugged down enough so that they won't turn but not so tight that they strip that one thread out of the sheetmetal. A little strip caulk body sealer under the bolt head and flat washer keeps them water tight and helps lock them in place.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02993.jpg

The fuel pump relay found a home on one of the ECM mounting bolts. I'll probably come up with a simple sheetmetal cover painted gloss black to hide the ECM/TCM/fuel pump relay unit later on.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02997.jpg

This low-angle shot shows the wiring bundled up and pulled to the driver's side and zip tied to keep it in order. The white zip ties are temporary and will be replaced with black ones. I'll get another piece of black harness sleeving to cover up the colored wires and tidy things up when everything is finalized on the wiring.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02998.jpg

You can barely see any of the wiring here, it really isn't visible unless you get down pretty low. I'm glad I didn't try to stuff it all up inside the dash.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03000.jpg

Little by little.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03001.jpg

Thanks for looking. :)

[Old Goat 67]

Thanks for sharing.
Looks good.

[TheMonkey]

you are doing excellent work. one of my favorite threads on the board.

[fbrown]

Have you hooked up the transmission end yet? How was the length of the trans wiring. I hooked mine up tonight and found it to be a little shorter than I would have liked. The o2 sensor wire however is much longer than needed. BTW I had to remove the header to install the crank sensor wire. Not enough room to get my big hand in there otherwise.

http://peripheraltech.com/gto/web275.jpg

[b-man]

The trans wiring was just barely long enough. I ran the wires down to the pan rail and back up to the large connectors and they fit okay, there's no room between the trans tunnel and the trans in this area to run the wiring. The main harness had to be tucked back a bit into the recess at the top of the trans tunnel just below the passenger side cylinder head to gather enough length to reach the trans connector.

The trans wiring goes right under this cover on the side and then loops back up to the connector:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02842.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02849.jpg

You can see where there is room for the harness in this older pre-swap pic, the trans tunnel has more room on the passenger side to free up space for the auto trans dipstick tube I suppose:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/1964Tempest003.jpg

Thanks for the tip on the crank sensor wiring, I'll be sure to plug it in before I install the headers for the last time.

On the subject of wiring, did you find a 4-terminal brake switch to shut off the cruise control and if so which one did you use? Would a '99-'02 F-body brake light switch work?

Did you change the angle on your knock sensors on the side of the block for a more favorable hookup to the harness? It looks like they both should angle toward the rear instead of the front.

Thanks, Bart

[fbrown]

Brake switches are quite common at least for the 68 up and I would guess that the 68 part would work in your car. Although I ordered mine from Classis Industries (full size Chevy Catlaog) part DR497 - 5.95, I only ordered since I was ordering other parts for my Cadillac. Rock Auto even lists a Delco part. The part I ordered claimed to fit anything from 67-85. I think the only thing that has changed over time is the type of connector that fits the switch. Even the switch on my 94 Fleetwood would have worked. This should be a part you would be able to get from most any auto part store, although they may need one day to get the part. If you are ordering the switch, Rockauto lists several different brands of switchs for 68 GTO's - cruise (4 wire)

From the picture of a 99-02 F-body switch, I don't think it would work, the adjustable shaft portion is too short.

One listing of a non-cruise switch list years from 58-86 so I think a switch for a 68 would fit your car.

I have not repositioned my knock sensors yet, just haven't got to it. Just loosen the bolt and rotate as desired, I have already moved the passenger side to gain clearance for my transmission cooler lines. Looks like it needs to be moved again.

Frederic

[b-man]

Frederic,

Thanks for your response, I was under the impression that a brake switch from a later car that uses cruise control would be required.

Today I was looking for a good place to mount my transmission cooler. The air conditioning condensor takes up the space in front of the radiator where I was first thinking of putting it. There is not enough room up front anywhere behind the bumper.

I am considering mounting it to the passenger side frame rail and to the two floor pan braces just above it. It will go directly behind the body mount brace just underneath the passenger seat.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03009.jpg

There is plenty of clearance between the exhaust system and the cooler, the X-crossover is directly across from it so the hot exhaust pipes will be as far away from it as would be possible. I can run the 3/8" steel cooler lines going across to the trans just above the trans crossmember to keep the heat transfer from the hot exhaust minimized as much as possible.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03007.jpg

Does anyone see a problem with this approach? With the car moving down the road at normal traffic speeds I would think there should be plenty of airflow.

Would stones or road debris kicked up by the right front tire tend to damage it? The B&M Supercooler I'll be using is a plate-type design that is more resistant to impacts than the tube & fin-type coolers. It's not like there are a bunch of stone chips on the bottom of the floorpans already.

I know that cast aluminum framerail mounted coolers are available, but they don't look like they would cool nearly as well as the plate type cooler I have.

Any helpful input would be appreciated. :)

[Wick]

I think it might get beat up pretty bad under there and the air flow through would be horrible. Those coolers need good airflow for a trans.

[6 Grrrs]

Many High end builds put coolers under the vehicle. Like you said, it's not like the floor is all beat up there. Mine has a fully painted/cleared floor & there are no stone chips in 2300 miles.

I think you will be safe. There should be plenty of air to cool it. These older chassis don't have any type of air direction (air dam), so most air goes underneath the vehicle. I would think maybe the only issue is that the xmember may block some of the air flow.

[b-man]

.....for mounting the trans cooler, with a little help from my friends. :D

I will mount it up front instead of taking the easy way out and mounting it under the car on the frame where it really won't do a good job and could end up damaged. I had to be reminded that there is a lot of hot air expelled underneath the car from the radiator, engine block and exhaust system.

The one I have is just too a little too big to fit behind the front bumper in front of the radiator and condensor, so I'll just downsize the cooler and get one about half the size so I can put it up front where it really needs to go. The 4L70E overdrive trans with the lockup converter shouldn't put out quite as much heat as one with a non-lockup converter that will by design slip at least a little 100% of the time.

You can see the top of the cooler here, it is 1-1/2" thick and there is only a 2-1/2" space for it. On the left it's just touching the condenser at the bottom corner, it has to follow the angle of the front bumper and grilles in order to fit.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03010.jpg

This cooler is 10" wide (as mounted here) including the mounting flanges and has an 8" core width. I will replace it with one of the same design that is 5-3/4" wide with a 3-3/4" core, it will also be 1-1/2" thick like the larger one:http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BMM-70273/

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03011.jpg

Should get some pretty decent airflow here and not block too much airflow to the condensor and radiator.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03012.jpg

It will mount the same as the trans cooler I have on my GTO shown here, but of course it will only be about half as wide. Plumbing will be done using 3/8" steel hard lines with inverted flare fittings (no rubber hose) like the GTO as well.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/HSD%20intake/1964GTOfuellinesrearend062.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/HSD%20intake/1964GTO3inchexhaust038.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/HSD%20intake/1964GTO3inchexhaust037.jpg

Thanks for all the help and suggestions guys, much appreciated. :cool:

[fbrown]

If you have a 9.5"-10" TC you will make a ton of heat if running hard, like auto-crossing or trans-am type road course where you will never be in lockup nor should you be. I ran a 4l60E setup for 600HP in my former car, a 94 Fleetwood with 480HP 383. The Fleetwood had both a radiator transmission cooler and a separate transmission cooler mounted in front of the radiator and AC condenser. If I had raced my Fleetwood, the factory transmission cooler would not have been big enough. But since most of the driving was highway with only a limited amount of slow speed wide open throttle, I got away with using the factory setup. My transmission supplier agreed that in my case, I didn't need to upgrade the front transmission cooler, but said he would insist on it if I were to Auto-cross.

Make sure you run a big enough transmission cooler for the type of driving you will be doing. Since you are in AZ you may be able to skip the radiator transmission cooler, but in cold weather the transmission will take a long time to warm up.

You are correct that once you are in lock-up there is little heat generated, but depending on the program on the transmission controller, you may not be in lock-up until you reach 55 mph. I don't know what Speartech set the controller for.

Since I planning to run my 68 Lemans quite a bit harder than my Fleetwood, I'm planning to run a second transmission cooler in front of the AC condenser. For the short term I will just use the transmission cooler in the radiator. I hope to have my car on the road in a month or two, run it for a few hundred miles before starting the frame-off restoration phase of the project. I can't really mount the transmission cooler until I deal with the AC, which for me will be during the restoration phase.


BTW - plan on buying one of the programs that will let you edit the parameters in the computers. Otherwise you will always want something slightly different than the way Speartech setup the program. In addition to having my Fleetwood dyno tuned, I spent many hours tweaking the idle speed, shift points, shift speed, down shift points, TC lockup. The "mail order" tune we got from Speartech will be just a starting point and will probably need slight changes.

Frederic

[Skip Fix]

You do some pretty nice looking fab work! Esp that tranny crossmemeber.

[b-man]

Frederic,

I was surprised to see the GVW ratings on the various B&M race coolers.

The larger one I have (P/N 70266) is rated at 28,000 lbs. GVW, while the smaller one I plan to buy (P/N 70273) is rated at 25,000 lbs. GVW. Pretty surprising that a cooler half the size is rated just under its bigger brother in cooling capacity.

You do some pretty nice looking fab work! Esp that tranny crossmemeber.Thanks Skip, coming from you I consider that to be a huge compliment. :o

Now, a fan relay question for you guys who know your automotive electrical systems.

I'm running some 4th-gen F-body fans, they're an OEM replacement made by Dorman (P/N 620634).

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02719.jpg

Would these require the use of two 30 amp relays or two 40 amp ones? I have two Bosch 30 amp relays (0 332 019 150) here that I might be able to use.

My custom Speartech wiring harness already has provisions for computer control of the fan relays, the loop of pink-dark green-dark blue relay control wires are shown at the bottom of this pic:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02982.jpg

Where would you recommend that I source the relay plugs and harnesses from, or some new relays if I need to buy some?

Would also be nice to find the OEM connectors that plug into the fan motors.

Any help you can offer on this would be very much appreciated.

Bart

[fbrown]

While the Bosch relay is good enough to control the fans, it is not a complete solution. You need to add a circuit breaker or fuse for each fan, also I recommend that you use a weather-proof connection since the relays will be mounted under the hood. While expensive, a couple of these kits will provide everthing you need. This kit also includes a circuit breaker.

http://www.painlessperformance.com/webcatalog/largeview.php?SearchField=30130

You should run at least 12 guage wire for the power, 10 guage would be better but is harder to work with. You should be able to buy a few feet of stranded wire at Home Depot/Lowes. If you need to splice/crimp the wire use heat shrink over the splice to make it water-tight.

For your fans, you should be able to get a repair pigtail (usually available from GM dealer) or match the connectors with a little searching. Be aware that it you buy loose terminals and the connector parts, you will probably need a specal and expensive crimp tool. If you buy the terminals be sure to order a few extra terminals. Its bad to get a bad crimp and then be a terminal short. For what it worth it took me a couple of hours of internet searching to find the weather-proof connector and terminals for the fans that came with my radiator.

Frederic

[ponjohn]

Bart- what CPU are you using to manage the EFI?

Some of the aftermarket units have a fan output.

I do not know if that output is PWM or a 12v control signal.

[fbrown]

More thoughts for the fan wiring and other things.

Actually most cars of the 80's up have a underhood power distribution center, that contains fuses, circuit-breakers, relays for all of the high amp devices that are present on moden cars. Depending on how many other items you plan to run, it might make sense to install one. Otherwise underhood wiring might get messy... If the fan relays and circuit breakers are all you plan to install it probably doesn't make sense to add a power distribution center. I'm thinking about it for my car beause I will probably need 40 amp service for the stereo and I could have the fuel pump, fans, ECM and stereo fused and wired from one under-hood location.

Frederic

[TheMonkey]

Bart-

On the trans cooler, if you find that the smaller cooler is not sufficient, can you run two of the smaller coolers behind front bumper? one on left side, one on right side?

Scott.

[Ollie]

b-man have you looked at this fan controler?
http://www.dccontrol.com/introf0.htm

[b-man]

Frederic,

Thanks again for the very helpful info, I'm a novice when it comes to automotive electrical systems. Your input on my build has truly been instrumental in leading me in the right direction on many different details. :thumbup:

I'm considering using my stock AM radio to play an Ipod using a RediRad (PY p/n RPZ189):http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=577798

I don't need nor do I want a killer stereo in my Tempest. A couple of 6X9s in the package tray and an updated speaker assembly in the center dash speaker location would be plenty for me, as long as it has some reasonable clarity and volume I'll be happy.

ponjohn & Ollie,

The Speartech ECM will control the EFI and fans so I have that much covered, now it's a matter of getting the correct relays, circuit breakers and the proper wiring to make the fans and everything else work reliably.

Scott,

My first thought was running two coolers, but the added plumbing and blocking more of the radiator and condensor airflow kind of discourages me. I'm still thinking about running two of them though so that when I'm running the car hard my very expensive tranmission won't suffer.

[fbrown]

Bart

If you want to talk in more detail about the electrical part, PM me and we can swap phone numbers. My degree is in Electrical Engineering and computer programming. I am well qualified if you want assistance.

Frederic

[b-man]

Bart

If you want to talk in more detail about the electrical part, PM me and we can swap phone numbers. My degree is in Electrical Engineering and computer programming. I am well qualified if you want assistance.

FredericFrederic,

I'd like to take you up on that, I hope you don't mind me asking some pretty basic questions.

Over and over again. ;)

------------------------------------------------------

Okay, back to the Tempest at hand.

I decided to buy two B&M transmission coolers. ;)

No way I'm taking any chances with my nice transmission.

The coolers will be arriving in a couple of days along with some 3" stainless steel V-band connections that will be welded to the exhaust system just before the mufflers. In order to get the transmission out for service I have to be able to easily drop the X-pipe out of the car, so the V-bands will solve that issue. This car must be as to easy to service as I can make it.

Also ordered up a Wilwood proportioning valve to adjust front to rear brake bias. I will buy a new master cylinder locally, the one I need is a 15/16" bore unit for a '77 Monte Carlo with manual front discs.

Thanks again to all here who have offered ideas and assistance with this project. :usa2::ausflag::canada:

[b-man]

.....for my twin trans coolers.

They tuck right behind the bumper way down low, the top half of the coolers will be exposed to fresh air coming in from the slot in the bumper.

After removing the front bumper this is what I have to work with.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03014.jpg

Both coolers are mounted to a piece of 1" wide X 3/16" thick X 29" long mild steel bar. The bar mounts to a pair 1-3/4" long standoffs (spacers), the bar is about 3/8" from the front of the condensor fins. I was able to use two existing 1/4" holes in the core support to mount it, worked out just perfect!

Down below I still need to fab up a pair of lower support brackets from the same mild steel bar, they will bolt to the two lower 3/8" studs that mount the hood latch support in the center and two exisiting 3/8" holes at the bottom corners of the core support channel.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03015.jpg

I used a large 1/2 NPT run tee at the top outlet of the second cooler so I could install a trans temp sender for the Autometer trans temp gauge. This should give me a pretty good temperature reading of the cooled fluid before it heads back to the transmission.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03016.jpg

A shot of the 3/8" tube loop that connects the outlet of the first cooler to the inlet of the second cooler. There's plenty of clearance between the tubing loop and the hood latch lever so I won't burn my fingers on the hot tubing. All of the tube fittings are brass inverted flare, already proven to be reliable by the OEMs.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03017.jpg

None of the brass fittings or the tube loop can be seen with the bumper and grilles in place, the rest of the cooler plumbing will be hidden behind the bumper as well.

Tomorrow I hope to finish up the plumbing on both coolers and the lower mounting brackets.

Thanks for looking. :)

[wheelspin]

Clever and sanitary oil cooler install, Bart. Nicely done :cool:.

Les

[b-man]

Clever and sanitary oil cooler install, Bart. Nicely done :cool:.

LesThanks Les.

The two factory horns that bolt to the inside of the front bumper brackets on these cars are less than 1/2" away from the outside corners or the coolers.

Where there's will there's a way. ;)

I can't have my transmission overheating when I'm thrashin' on this thing through the canyons, I'm thinking it won't now..... :)

[b-man]

.....on the twin-trans cooler installation today.

I put the front bumper back on and adjusted it as closely as I could to where it will be on the finished car. After checking the clearance between the coolers and the bumper I found they needed to be shifted upward by one inch. This puts the top of the cooler fins right at the top of bumper slot, a little bit more ideal for catching cooling air and adding some much needed clearance at the bottom of the coolers to the bumper.

I put the driver's side grille in to check for clearance too. The brass fittings and tubing are hidden from view in the grille area.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03018.jpg

With the bumper removed again and the various component clearances confirmed it was time to bend up some 3/8" steel hard lines.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03019.jpg

There was a small 'window' of space for both of the cooler lines to pass through the core support at the bottom corner.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03022.jpg

Both lines terminate a few inches past the core support, the 3/8" inverted flare unions were staggered to make it a little easier to swing a line wrench on them. I bent the lines so as to leave access to the hole in the frame for the front bumper bolt.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03021.jpg

I still need to make up the bottom support brackets, but I did manage to get all of the plumbing finished on the front end.

Hope everyone had a great Labor Day weekend! :)

[b-man]

.....so I can make up more of the cooling lines.

There will be zero access to the cooling line fittings on the side of the trans with it installed, so I need to make up some short lines that will be considered part of the complete transmission assembly before it gets installed for the final time.

Here's what I have to work with. The 90-degree inverted flare fittings are the key to making this work. The fittings have 1/4 NPT threads but the trans is made for a straight thread fitting.

The thread diameter and pitch is the same for both, but the pipe thread is tapered to make it seal. Before installing the fittings I used a 1/4 pipe tap to try to taper the last couple of threads in an attempt to help out with the sealing for whatever it's worth. I used a little teflon paste on the threads and got 'em good and tight.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03032.jpg

A shot of the finished 3/8" steel lines before installation.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03035.jpg

Lines are now installed. I had to run them towards the rear then down and forward because there's no room to run them forward right off the fittings, the trans dipstick tube will be in the way.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03036.jpg

The trans wiring needs to travel right next to the lines and right around the circular servo casting projection before it plugs into the large connector (just to the left of the lines in the above pic), everything is a tight fit in the trans tunnel. Rather than bash the trans tunnel out another inch or two for clearance, I packaged it all tightly to keep the tunnel as small as possible so my stock rubber interior flooring will still work.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03034.jpg

Shot from the bottom where the lines terminate underneath the bellhousing. After the trans goes back in and the headers and starter motor are installed on the engine I can make up the 2 lines that will connect the front twin cooler lines to these short trans lines.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03037.jpg

The weather was beautiful today in the mid to low 80s, so I took advantage of that.

Gotta keep moving on this. :)

[Hurst65]

Wow!! Nice work on those lines!!

[Donovan]

I'm amazed at this engine. I weighed the composite LS3 intake completely dressed with injectors, silencer cover, throttle body and fuel tube. 17-18 lbs... that's the same as a bare aluminum edelbrock manifold.

Nice work here! Thanks for the eyecandy.

I will drop mine in this weekend if the rain doesn't come. Took the RX7 to the scale today to get the pre-swap 'stock' weight. 2860 lbs. Wonder if I'll lose or gain replacing the rotary.

[b-man]

Thanks again everyone for the kind words. :)

Regarding the RX7 swap, my guess is you'll be adding about 100 pounds to the car. I doubt the Mazda rotary weighs in at 400+ pounds.

The LS3 is a pretty amazing piece.

Recently I was reading this LS3 street cam swap article: http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/lsx_engine/0911gmhtp_chevy_ls3_engine_camshaft_comparison/index.html

Tested with a set of Hooker Competition Ceramic 1.75-inch headers (PN 2469-1HKR) and an electric water pump the stock LS3 baselined at 471.3 lb-ft and 483.1 hp. :eek:

Not too bad for a 376-cube engine with a 204/211 @ .050 cam, lift numbers are pretty decent at .551"/.521".

I'm thinking that expecting a 'real-world' 450 to 460 HP at the flywheel out of mine wouldn't be out of the question. :usa2:

[b-man]

.....for a while today and made some decent progress.

I removed the old master, it's a 1-1/16" bore 2nd-gen F-body disc/drum manual brake unit that worked very well with the single-piston B-body calipers. I'm replacing it with a 15/16" bore 1977 Monte Carlo or Malibu disc/drum manual master that comes complete with the pushrod, a $35 item with an $11 core charge (pictured below in the foreground). That's right, no power brakes.

Of interest is the two masters are configured backward from one another. The F-body master has the front brake reservoir in front, the Monte master has the front brake reservoir located in the rear. This means I will have to remake the lines from the master to the combination valve.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03091.jpg

I was able to use the old 1964 Tempest single-master pushrod with the F-body master. For reference I measured from the mounting surface of the master to the center of the pushrod pivot pin, it looks to be right about 6".

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03092.jpg

The new Monte Carlo master pushrod won't be quite long enough nor will it fit up to my brake pedal. It fits deep into the piston, by about an inch unlike the F-body master.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03093.jpg

I will cut the new pushrod off at the cut line shown and thread it with a 3/8-24 die so it will screw in to the original Tempest brake pushrod clevis. It's just long enough to work.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03094.jpg

I will reuse the 2nd-gen F-body combination block and mounting bracket, the bracket has been slightly modified by bending the mounting tabs to tuck the combo valve up close to the master cylinder.

The combo valve has been modified by removing the cartridge and spring (shown next to the end cap), they can be accessed after removing the end cap. The Wilwood adjustable proportioning valve ($42) will connect to the 3/16" brake line adapter fitting in the end cap, it's mounted on a simple angle bracket. I will adjust the front to rear brake bias using the Wilwood prop valve to prevent the rear brakes from locking before the fronts, especially under wet road conditions.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03095.jpg

I made up some new lines from the master to the combo valve, plus a short loop to connect the adjusable prop valve to the combo valve. I was able to reuse and reconfigure the original factory 3/16" line from the front brake reservoir to the combo valve, but had to make up a new 1/4" line from the rear brake reservoir to the combo valve. All these lines were bent by hand, the tubing is pretty soft so it's not too hard on your thumbs. There's no way to use a tubing bender on these with the bends so close to the tube nuts.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03099.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03100.jpg

The completed assembly test fitted in place, the short loop from the combo to the prop valve clears the inner fender by about 1/2".

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03103.jpg

That's all for today. :)

[Stuart]

How is the braking effort without a booster? I imagine it's a matter of getting the master and wheel cylinders sized properly.

[b-man]

How is the braking effort without a booster? I imagine it's a matter of getting the master and wheel cylinders sized properly.You are correct, proper master cylinder bore sizing is the key. The 15/16" master cylinder bore size was specified by the vendor who sold me the C6 Z06 brakes, I had a choice of this particular GM master or a 7/8" bore aluminum Wilwood master ($200). Quite a few of the Pro-Touring guys prefer manual brakes on their cars with big aftermarket 4-wheel disc brake setups.

Pedal effort with the old 1-1/16" bore master and 12" B-body front discs really wasn't too bad, you had good control of brake modulation and it didn't take a ridiculous amount of effort to stop the car. When you pressed hard on the pedal you definitely had good braking power in proportion to that effort. They didn't fade easily and would lock up when you expected them to.
----------------------------------------------------

Today I finished making up all of the hard lines for the brakes. Again all of the bends were made by hand, making for some pretty sore thumbs by the end of the day.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03104.jpg

The lines coming down from the combo and prop valves were bent this way to leave room to pull the steering column in and out of the car. The line in front leads to the left front brake, the next one (60" long) goes under the engine along the front crossmember to the right front brake and the rear line coming off the prop valve connects up to the original rear brake line.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03106.jpg

The 60" long line running under the engine terminates here, getting this line bent and routed was made a little easier with the inner fender out of the way. The engine will come out once more later on, I will tidy up the bends a little and fasten it down better at that time.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03105.jpg

Another job out of the way that will bring me a bit closer to driving this old heap.

Keepin' on it. :)

[TheMonkey]

Bart-

looking good.

imo, put on whatever headers you think you'll have the most fun driving. that starter R&R looks like a long list, but maybe only a couple hours?

also, i agree with Jeff about heat shield for starter, and also consider heat shield for trans lines next to headers, back by collector.

nice line bending. with the long lines you have now, depending on how you fasten them down, i'd think you'll be fine without a flex tube section?

couldn't the line be run inboard, next to oil pan?

thx for taking pics and keeping us updated!

[b-man]

Bart-

looking good.

imo, put on whatever headers you think you'll have the most fun driving. that starter R&R looks like a long list, but maybe only a couple hours?

also, i agree with Jeff about heat shield for starter, and also consider heat shield for trans lines next to headers, back by collector.

nice line bending. with the long lines you have now, depending on how you fasten them down, i'd think you'll be fine without a flex tube section?

couldn't the line be run inboard, next to oil pan?

thx for taking pics and keeping us updated!Thank you. :)

Making up some kind of heat shield for the starter is a must and is on my long list of things to do. I may even swap out this starter for a smaller one that's used on the 5.3 liter truck engines, but I'll only do that if it solves the installation issue. My AC Delco reman starter cost $300, so right now I'm hesitating to do anything but try to make use of it.

The lines will be supported right at the trans pan and in a couple of places on the inner fender, that should be plenty. The factory lines used on these cars are only supported in one place on the front crossmember, right next to a hot exhaust manifold.

I wanted to run them right past the starter and next to the oil pan rail, but there's absolutely zero room. In order to make them up that way I'd have to run them under the oil pan in one area coming from the trans, that's not an option of course.

[Wick]

Bart, I know the starter is back a few days but have you thought about taking it apart to install/remove? I had to do this with my round port motor, 4 speed TA with a scattershield. Pain in the butt but better than the alternative.

[b-man]

Bart, I know the starter is back a few days but have you thought about taking it apart to install/remove? I had to do this with my round port motor, 4 speed TA with a scattershield. Pain in the butt but better than the alternative.I was looking at that possibility, but there is absolutely no room to pull the starter solenoid off by itself. I can't see a way to get it apart with it installed, clearances make the access just too limited.

At this point I feel lucky that there's just enough room to get the starter wires on.

[Wick]

I was looking at that possibility, but there is absolutely no room to pull the starter solenoid off by itself. I can't see a way to get it apart with it installed, clearances make the access just too limited.

At this point I feel lucky that there's just enough room to get the starter wires on.

Mine was an aftermarket so that made it easier. Just a thought.

[Skip Fix]

Gosh 10 days and no new pics??

[b-man]

.....can really occupy a lot of time, it seems like there are a thousand and one little jobs that still need to be done.

I spent some time making up the necessary brackets to secure the fan shroud to the radiator. Quite a few months back I modified some factory lower saddles for the radiator to rest on and trimmed the fan shroud to fit, but until just lately I haven't worked on finishing up the installation.

The fan shroud will serve to hold the radiator in place. At the top of the core support the top radiator tank seams rest against a length of 1/4" rubber fuel hose that was slit lengthwise and slipped over a folded sheetmetal lip. The top radiator clamp (3rd picture below) keeps it held down in the rubber-insulated saddles at the bottom.

I made up some mounting brackets from 2 X 2 X 1/8" angle iron to secure the fan shroud to the radiator and fill the gap between the shroud and radiator support, there are two 10-32 tapped holes for each shroud mounting tab. The shroud mounting tabs are made from 1-1/4 X 1-1/4 x 1/8" angle iron, each one is tapped with 1/4-28 threads to hold the shroud in place.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03128.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03129.jpg

The top radiator clamp mounts to the same two factory tapped holes in the radiator support that mounted the stock radiator clamp. I made it from a leftover scrap of .135" thick steel plate that I had previously used to modify the trans crossmember and a piece of 1-1/2 X 1-1/2 x 1/4" aluminum angle. I'll round off a few of the sharp corners before it gets painted and use some nicer looking fasteners when it's all finished up, I used some old Pontiac valve cover bolts that were handy for now. :)

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03137.jpg

I also fabbed up a starter motor shield, it's made from a piece of 3.00 dia. X .060" wall 304 stainless steel tubing that was slit lengthwise, unrolled and flattened to extend upward from the starter motor. The shield extends up high enough to shield the solenoid, starter soleniod wire and positive battery cable along with the crank sensor wiring and knock sensor wiring.

I still need to make a small 'L' bracket coming off the lower 8mm hex head starter motor bolt to clamp the shroud to the bottom front of the starter motor. The outside wall of the shield will be polished on a buffer so it will reflect as much heat as possible, I sure hope my starter lives a long life since it will be a pretty big job to change it out.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03133.jpg

The upper mounting bracket is made from 1 X 3/16" band iron. It mounts to one of the header bolts and has a 1/4-28 hole tapped in it to secure it to the top of the starter shield, it needed a small notch cut in the side so a 5/8" spark plug socket can sneak by. The .060" thick stainless shield and stout upper mounting bracket shouldn't vibrate and crack easily, some of the thin sheetmetal factory heat shields seem to have cracking issues.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03132.jpg

Another small detail out of the way is the brake master cylinder pushrod. I cut the looped end off and had a machinist friend of mine single-point some 3/8-24 threads on his lathe. Now it will screw right into the factory brake pushrod clevis.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03134.jpg

Thanks for looking. :)

[andrewb70]

Looks great. I can't wait to see how you like the brakes!

Andrew

[Skip Fix]

You sure do some pretty fabrication! Mine all ends up butt ugly!

[ponjohn]

Bart- can 3/8" line be used for any trans cooler lines..ie t400?

John

[b-man]

Bart- can 3/8" line be used for any trans cooler lines..ie t400?

JohnYou sure can.

The 2-speed Super-Turbine 300 that came in the '64 GTO and the 326 V8 Lemans and Tempest used 3/8" line from the factory.

The 3/8" inverted flare cooling line fittings from the 2-speed can be used on the TH400, I did this on my '64 GTO here in this thread:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2936666&postcount=27

[ponjohn]

You sure can.

The 2-speed Super-Turbine 300 that came in the '64 GTO and the 326 V8 Lemans and Tempest used 3/8" line from the factory.

The 3/8" inverted flare cooling line fittings from the 2-speed can be used on the TH400, I did this on my '64 GTO here in this thread:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2936666&postcount=27

Cool, do you have a link to the inverted flare tool you use?

I read the link,, I see it now.

[JSchmitz]

B-man, what's goin' on? Too busy driving it to post? :D

[b-man]

B-man, what's goin' on? Too busy driving it to post? :D
Not a lot going on lately, my hours at work have been increased so I have less free time and energy :old: to get things done.

I did spend some time fitting up some universal Lokar column shift linkage made for GM auto transmissions, I want to keep the original 2-speed auto column shifter that came in the Tempest. The factory shift linkage that is supported by a pivot bracket on the frame and the trans selector shaft won't work, the selector shaft on the 4L70E is located about 1-1/4" further back on the trans compared the the TH400 and original ST300 2-speed. The Lokar kit cost me about $50 and was well-worth it.

Back when I first installed a TH400 in the car to replace the original Super-Turbine 300 2-speed I did a few mods to the steering column so the shift linkage would travel far enough to grab low gear on the 3-speed TH400.

I took the steering column apart and filed a slot in the outer column at the bottom and in one of the inner pieces near the top to allow the extra shift lever travel I needed. I also modified the shifter detent that bolts to the bottom of the column by fabricating and welding on an extension that gives the lower lever another step in the detent.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03155.jpg

Welding the fabricated mild steel step to the cast factory shifter detent seemed to go okay. I just used a little 308 stainless rod with a TIG welder and they joined together just fine. The weld did spit and pop a little during the process but it's lasted for over 30K miles so far and shows no signs of cracking.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03156.jpg

The Lokar kit comes with a nice billet aluminum lever that slips over a splined bushing that bolts onto the shift selctor shaft. The splines fit together very tightly and the lever gets locked in place with a clamp bolt, very high-quality fit and finish on these parts.

The lever is slotted so you can adjust the amount of selector shaft travel. I used the position that's located the farthest out to limit the length of lever travel, I only want to select Overdrive, 3rd and 2nd. I see no need to be able to grab low gear. The trans will kick down if I need low gear while accelerating and the trans will start off in low by itself if the selector is in 3rd or Overdrive.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03166.jpg

The factory 2-speed shift indicator pointer will be in the correct position for Park, Reverse and Neutral and will be in the Drive position for running in Overdrive. For 3rd gear it will be directly between the Drive and Low positions on the shift indicator, to engage 2nd I will have to pull the lever back and utilize the added shift detent that was welded on.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC02973-1.jpg

The Lokar kit comes with a 21"-long piece of 5/16" stainless rod that you bend and cut to length for your particular application. It comes threaded 5/16-24 on one end for a heim joint, the other end gets cut off and a piece that screws into the other heim joint slips over the rod and gets secured with a pair of 1/4-28 set screws.

The 5/16" rod is very hard to bend cold, you need to clamp it in a large bench vise (using aluminum soft jaws) and push or pull it using all of your weight to bend it. I have my 6" vise bolted to the corner of a 48" X 36" X 1/2" thick steel welding table and I was able to lift the corner of it off the ground while bending the rod, so it's definitely plenty stiff and won't give any while shifting gears.

Getting the rod bent in the correct configuration takes a lot of time, constantly checking and bending it and later on trimming it until it's not hitting the firewall, engine or trans in all of the different positions of travel. I must have bolted this thing on and taken it back off 20 or 30 times before it was right.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03168.jpg

The kit instructions tell you to file a couple of flats after marking their locations. I had a friend mill the flats perfectly level in relation to one another and properly located center to center so the 2 set screws (with blue Loctite) would be best able to positively secure the heim joint.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/1964%20Tempest/DSC03167.jpg

A lot of effort for a column shifter that almost nobody else would want on a car like this. :bored:

That's all for now, thanks for looking.

Merry Christmas!

[ITSBACK]

Just saw your thread for the first time today. I have a 67 GTO with the body off and am toying with the idea of a LS motor instead of the 455 block I have planned. I also have a brand new chevy stroker to toy with before the final motor decision or that I can just sell for the money to fund another direction. I am going to save and read the full thread later, just wondering how it is going now. And by the way, if I pulled up next to your car and saw those dog dish tires, I would not think it was a grandma car. That car says all business, bring it on.
Thanks,
Bill

[b-man]

Just saw your thread for the first time today. I have a 67 GTO with the body off and am toying with the idea of a LS motor instead of the 455 block I have planned. I also have a brand new chevy stroker to toy with before the final motor decision or that I can just sell for the money to fund another direction. I am going to save and read the full thread later, just wondering how it is going now. And by the way, if I pulled up next to your car and saw those dog dish tires, I would not think it was a grandma car. That car says all business, bring it on.
Thanks,
BillBill,

Right now I'm taking a breather on the Tempest project. I need to tighten up the front end parts and get the brakes working, then blow it apart (remove engine, trans, A/C unit) so I can insulate the floors and firewall and trailer it to an upholstery shop to get a headliner installed.

Also need to get the new windshield and old back glass installed, then the next big hurdle will be getting all the wiring taken care of (fan relays, A/C unit, gauges, etc.) after the dash bezel gets painted.

Turned out to be a lot more involved than just an LS3 swap.

Hoping to finish it up this year, I'm anxious to start running around in it with some of the local Pro-Touring folks. Might even take it on the Power Tour. :)

Bart

[Blone]

Maybe Im crazy, but I think it would be cool to paint the LS3 Pontiac Metallic Blue!

[Mr_GTO]

Come on B-Man we need some updates. :D

[b-man]

Nothing new going on with my project.

Too many other things going on right now, I can't spend any of my time working on the Tempest for a while.

[71firebird400]

hey Bart, let's get crackin on this Tempest :P It's too cool to let sit for this long! You're in the home stretch!

[rexus31]

Any updates?

[Old Blue 66]

Wow this is an old thread. I forgot about it. Anything new Bart?

[6 Grrrs]

x3. Always enjoy seeing updates to this thread.

[b-man]

.....of course in our lives, and within the last couple of years mine has undergone some major changes.

My wife of over 30 years passed away from cancer earlier this year. :( She bravely fought this dreaded disease for nearly a year before she finally succumbed, now she is at peace. I would gladly push all of my cars off of a cliff if that might bring her back to me.

Soon I will be getting married to a fine woman, I have been fortunate enough to have found her because of the wonders of the world-wide web.

After we are married and settled I will jump back in on the Tempest, but my time will be spent sparingly out in the garage, the car hobby is not important to me in the grand scheme of things now.

Thanks, Bart

[Old Goat 67]

Bart,

Wishing you only the best that life can bring. You're keeping things in proper priority.

Charles

[Karch]

Bart, very sorry for your loss. May your wife R.I.P.

[pont3]

Yeah man, take care of those other things and believe me, we'll still be here whenever you decide to resume. Congrats on your new relationship.

[TheMonkey]

Sorry

[6 Grrrs]

Sorry for your loss Bart and I'm certain anyone on these forums can understand how you feel. Congrats on the wife to be.

[krisr]

Ouch, sorry to hear man. Hope all works out for you in the long run.

[big_gto]

Looks like a lot of work. Looks like it's coming along pretty well, though. I like your previous engine builds that you have shared with the Pontiac community. Personally, I'd drive a turbo Miata before a GMPP powered Pontiac. Although it's a good engine, just not my flavor. Just look at it: not an appealing looking engine. I understand why GM installs engine covers. But it's the art of hot rodding. It'll definitely haul ass. It seems I'm the only one who would not do this project. Personally, I'd install a Ford dohc 4.6 mod motor in it if I was not installing a traditional Pontiac V8. Good luck b-man. Is the `64 GTO next on the chopping block?

[pestwagon64]

Hey B-Man! Just read this thread ! Nice read. I built a white 64 Tempest wagon a few years back and you always had a wealth of knowledge. I just bought a 64 Tempest 2Dr post (not a Tempest Custom) in Santa Clarita. going to swap in a LS motor and OD tranny soon. Your car is looking really bad a_ _.

[gtospieg]

Hey B-Man...just found this thread and read the whole thing...awesome...but then it ended without a final payoff...How are things going? Are you done or has life gotten in the way. All the best...hope to hear more soon.

[b-man]

Nothing new to report I'm afraid, but the good news is I still plan to finish it. :)

I'm involved in a major home remodel at the moment so all the hobby cars are on hold for a while.

[gtospieg]

I'm glad to hear you haven't given up on it. I wish I had read your thread BEFORE I did the body off resto on my 67...things may have turned out differently but I'm pretty happy with my results

[brut4s]

Bump

[b-man]

Still waiting......more projects ahead of this one.....I get bored with one and move on to another.....

[KSZR]

Still waiting......more projects ahead of this one.....I get bored with one and move on to another.....

Did you get back to this project?