http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_cool.gif I hope these pictures help many of you who are trying to rid yourself of a slim Jim...

http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_cool.gif I hope these pictures help many of you who are trying to rid yourself of a slim Jim...

http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_cool.gifSorry about the size of the pictures but I'm sure you won't need a magnifier to get the Idea of what I did. Only problem is that I have to still shorten the drive line about 3/4's of an inch but the car drive's wonderful....

set of pictures # 2

http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_cool.gifhere is the last set of pictures, and for all of you guys that are thinking of doing this. Do it and you won't be sorry, just remember that the 63 engines will not have bolt holes for the starter so if you can find a newer 389, or go with something else as I did (455) You will have a blast once you drive it!!


Pictures set #3

http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_cool.gif here is a final shot of the car from inside...

EMD,

Thanks for the info! Did you use a shorttail on the wagon? It is a shorter wheelB than sedans.

Also, you can use a crossmember from a pre- '75 Caprice that is flipped & bolted to the bottom of the frame to allow for duals & speedo cable clearance. It has 2 humps that are perfect for this & allows for regular mount - for those of us w/o a welder.

I've been "lurking" on this page for quite a while, I finally registered. I'm putting together a 64 GP. Any tranny help will be appreciated. I'm not even sure how bad my slim Jim is, as the car sat for 8 years. I know I didn't put the breather back in when I re-assembled the engine/tranny. I found it in the shed.

EMD~

warm thanks for sharing your experience with us!

My '62 Wagon is getting a TH400 and it's helpful to see how someone else did it.

http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_cool.gif Glad to help out any way I can!

I've also seen the flat 65-66 full size crossmembers used, as they have kickups for the exhaust, and are wider.

forget that, how did you hang the starter on a 63 since the block has no mounts?

I think he's got a 455 in there, so he solved the starter problem the easy way.

YEP! if you look at the third set of pictures in the header, I explain that and more!
Thanks for the replies.

so the age old question remains for the purist.

Engineer- Indeed. Still doomed. I am going to have a Superhydramatic rebuilt & am prepping a '66 389 & TH400 at the same time as I can still not decide. In my gut I think the Super is the way to go, but the common nature & dependability of the other combo is hard to pass up.

http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_cool.gif Yes you could be a purest and keep the 389 which is a fantastic engine, but of course with the starter mounting problems, then you have to realize that some changes need to be made. The Roto is obviously not everybody's favorite, the Hydramatic is getting hard to find and then there are far far better up grades that can be made and still keep your car "LOOKING" stock. Of the easily seen items in the picture that follows, you would be hard pressed to guess that it wasn't a stock engine if you didn't know what to look for. 6 things in this picture will tell you that it's modified but is it a 389 or a 400, or one of the big crank jewels? Valve covers, HEI, Headers, Edelbrock manifold, 8 bolt water pump, Yes these could be put on the 389 and with the proper Paint for the year, who would know other then a Pontiac guy that would know that 66 heads came on a 455, and the transfer lug would tell you it is something other then the 389-400 block. Yes you can be a purest, or you can be the hot rodder, that is what is neat about our hobby. Build it the way you want, drive it the way you want, and get more satisfaction then 2 weeks after you sign your wedding license!!

http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_cool.gif Just bringing this to the first page...There are more questions about this install and this might help....

Nice.
I have used the cross member from late 70s and early 80s B and C body cars as well. You have to look hard to find one out of a Buick, Olds or Caddy diesel that will have the double hump for dual exhaust.

WHAT DID YOU ABOUT THE STARTER

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CARNUT:
WHAT DID YOU ABOUT THE STARTER <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He said he is putting a 455 in the car.

Great pics. It's interesting to see how different people do things differently. I just put a TH400 into my '64 Convertible. I have a '64 389 B (February) motor, and it was drilled and tapped for a block mount starter. My question is, when did GM start this with the 389?.. Some time late '63?

Anyway, it was an easy swap and I have about a 4 page Word document of how I did the swap if anyone is interested. My linkage is different as I have column shift. And I have drawings for that also.

I used a pan of off a '64 Cadillac TH400 which has the same dipstick tube setup as the Slim Jim. For you purests.

The '64 Cadillac TH400 is setup for a bellhousing mount starter. The Coupe DeVille I robbed had a short shaft TH400. Not sure about the bolt pattern.

Suggestions on the kickdown switch? I still haven't figured that one out yet.

-r-

As memory serves, the 389 GTO engines used the later starter mounting, and I think the '64 Grand Prixs did as well. The Bonnevilles (4-spd Hydromatic) used the earlier starter design.

Does this sound correct to the more experienced motorhead?

I'm not sure what automatic trans they used for the LeMans/GTO. As far as the full size: In late '63/early '64 Pontiac started to drill and tap the block for a block mount starter in prep for convertion to the TH400 in '65. In '64 thougth - GP & Cat used the RotoHydromatic, Bonneville/StarChief used the SuperHydromatic. All used a bellhousing mount starter.

-r-

No block mount starter pad until 64
GTOs and GrandPrixs with _manual_ transmissions got the new starter and the automatic cars got the old starter. 1965 new starter was universal.
Im using a nitrous throttle switch for my th400 kickdown on my 63

64catdroptop
there is a lot to be said for just sitting around with an uncluttered mind! LOL

64CDT-

For your kickdown -

If you can not find a way to mount it on one of the carb mounting bolts (I have seen a cap screw used where they replaced the carb mounting stud with the cap screw) you could try using one off a '67 which uses the throttle linkage. I think inside the car (see previous posts on this subject on this forum). I would think that would work.

Thanks guys!

I've got my eye on a '68 Ventura that has the kickdown on the pedal. It's a complete car, with the keys in the ignition. This car as been sitting in this yard for about 15 years now. I think I'll give that a shot and let you know.

-r-

64catdroptop, I would like to have a copy of the word file. I am in the process of changing my 63 now. Did you have to modify the floorboard to fit the 400 under the tunnel?

http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_cool.gifThere might be some minor interferance with the tunnel. the Roto hydramatic is narrower in the tail shaft then the 400 and the only place that I had contact was with the upper 2 bolts of the tail shaft housing of the 400. You have to remember not to get the tilt of your engine to far out of whack. it will cause carb angle problems and driveline angle problems. I have had no problem with my setup since it's been together.

Yeah I'm back
 

After a long leave of spacing my Password and other things like moving, I'm Back to answer questions and present quotes.

And other needless information!!!

Just bringing this back to the top for those folks that need to install a current trans in a older body style

I'm going to use a console and floor shift from a 64 GP in my 63 Catalina also 73 400 cu w/turbo 400 trans. Has anybody had any experience hooking this shifter to the turbo 400?

64 gp shifter install
 

look at the pictures in this thread #s 1-6 and see how I did the same thing in a 63 Catalina Wagon!!

Did you change the gear selector indicator, if so how?

gear change indicator
 

I found one in a 65 or 66 floor shift car and made it fit. It works fine!!

any engine after 63 will work for this change out. Like I said in the photos, all the stock componants were used, I just had to bend to clearance and make up a longer adjustable shift rod. I don't use a kick down either, because the floor shift works so nice I just shift manually. with 2.56 to 1 in the rear end, the car will go into low with no problems below 50 mph anyway. no worrys

Anyone do this and retain the column shift?? That will be the only thing that may give me fits. Thanks!

I'm planning a T-400 swap in my 64 Bonneville. As much as I like the hydro, my big 500+ ft.lb. 462 is beating the hell out of the Super-hydro...

I can get a short tail T-400 from a GTO. Would this tranny be OK or would I be better off swapping it for a long tail?

Thanks,
Jeff

I plan on using a cable from the stock tree shifter to shift it. B&M sells nice ones in different lengths...

Depends on your Driveshaft length.

Mike

I used a long tail in my '64 2+2 so as to not move the X-member forward -

Dave B.

So it's possible to swap one in without having a new driveshaft made?

I think not - but I will measure if you want me to -

At a minimum, you'll need a new fine spline yoke -

Dave B.

Thanks for the offer Dave but I'm not sure what tranny I'm going to use yet. If I go with the long tail then the measurement would be a big help.

I'd like to use the short tail tranny I have because I know it wasn't abused. It's from a 69 up Grand Prix 428 / 455...

Long Tail/short tail
 

Man it's been a long time since I've been on here....Anyway, I'm going to answer a question on this from so far ago....the question was about the long tail or short tail and the fact is that both will work, the drive shaft is longer of course with the shorter transmission...64 1/2" I think for the short tail if I remember right. My Wagon has a long tail 400 behind a 455 and my "Racecar", a 64 Catalina 4 Dr sedan has a short tail 400 behind a 455. One has a drive shaft loop and one does not. With the short tail trans, the car at 3960 Race weight went 11.93 in the 1/4 with a 150 shot of NO2 and 89 octane pump gas, at Sears Point Raceway (infineon)sp. I have the time slip......

back to the top
 

a lot of questions about this again

Might go turbo 400
 

Reviving this old thread.. The Super Hydramatic in my 63 BV is not shifting up in to 4th.. Guy wants $3500 to rebuild it. Found a complete 64 Catalina with 3 on the tree and may convert to 4 speed but since the '64 block is drilled and tapped for a block mounted starter I may use it in my '63 and go with a Turbo 400 instead. That would allow my wife to be designated driver on occasion.. So which is the easiest way to go? Long tail? Short tail? I already have the fine spline yoke.. Does the stock driveshaft have to be shortened? Cross member moved?

A manual transmission in a Bonneville back then would be a long tail. I don't know how that translates to a Turbo 400, I imagine you'll need to make some measurements to compare it to the Super Hydramatic. One good thing is a Bonneville has a larger transmission tunnel so there should be less potential interference with a Turbo 400.

Bonneville floor should accommodate the THM 400 with no issues. I would use the long tail. Leave the cross member where it is and just extend the mount porch.
If you can do what Ron did and find a 64 Cadillac Deville, Eldorado or Fleetwood pan, it will solve the filler tube issue. Or weld where the filler tube goes into the Roto pan to the 400 pan.
You may need to use the 2321 transmission mount.