Well I just installed my $500 set of Dougs headers today. What a P.I.T.A.! There were no easier than the $89 dollar set I bought from Summit racing. I dont know were some people get there info from on these forums? This brand loyalty cr#p has got to stop. I guess I try to help people not BS them. The bolt on the pass side was a little better than some but not $400 better.
Here would be my advise to all perspective buyers of headers. Buy a cheap set and have them coated. Take a small portion of the $200 you saved and buy a case of beer. Drink the whole case of beer and install the headers. All headers suck to install on A bodies.
I took all the precautions and still scratched the headers. I had to remove the oil filter housing, and struggle with two people to get them in on the pass side. I could not afford the beer since I overpaid for the headers. I really think lots of beer and saving $200 would have made the install much better. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_wink.gif

Well I just installed my $500 set of Dougs headers today. What a P.I.T.A.! There were no easier than the $89 dollar set I bought from Summit racing. I dont know were some people get there info from on these forums? This brand loyalty cr#p has got to stop. I guess I try to help people not BS them. The bolt on the pass side was a little better than some but not $400 better.
Here would be my advise to all perspective buyers of headers. Buy a cheap set and have them coated. Take a small portion of the $200 you saved and buy a case of beer. Drink the whole case of beer and install the headers. All headers suck to install on A bodies.
I took all the precautions and still scratched the headers. I had to remove the oil filter housing, and struggle with two people to get them in on the pass side. I could not afford the beer since I overpaid for the headers. I really think lots of beer and saving $200 would have made the install much better. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_wink.gif

Holy s*** thats funny Bud!!!I told you they were kinda a b**** to get those 2 bolts in.....My Gf had to do the drivers side on the #5 If i remember right my hands were too big! Other than that I still think they are of much better quality than others!...From this tho means u have the engine in right...I want to be there when u fire her up bud!!!Let me know when.....

I understand ya Darrell I have a set of hooker headers $600.00 pain in the you know what and on top of that I have a set of ebelbrock heads that I bought brand new and explained my set up to edelbrock and they said they would bolt right on HA HA they will if you dont use 6.5 rockers but if I would have done my home work and read some of the posts on this site I wouldnt of had that surprize, this is the best Pontiac site for info and I believe that no matter what kind of headers your going to install its going to be a pain in the a&& now that being said its Miller time later dude.

Darrell, if it was easy, anybody could do it http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_wink.gif. We didn't say Doug's drop right on, we said you don't have to ball peen http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...s/icon_eek.gif them shut to clear the steering box, shaft, or the a-arms.

The secret on the "D" port area bolts is to substitute shorter bolts for the ones furnished with the headers as they hit the tubes preventing you from starting them straight in.

Les

I know it's too late now but Ron tunnel port is about to get a run of tri-ys done for the a-body

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by pro-tour79:
I know it's too late now but Ron tunnel port is about to get a run of tri-ys done for the a-body </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who? I'm interested... I think.

I think that screwing with headers on a pontiac is just a rite of passage.

I had to replace a weeping head gasket and when bolting the headers back up I spent over an hour just getting one bolt started on the passenger side behind #6. And I know that some people have spent much, much more time than that.

My friend bought a nice set of coated hedmans for his 69 GTO and we had to fight them in. Scratched them up too http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_frown.gif but they still looked nice. Now they are leaking http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...s/icon_mad.gif so we get to do it again.

I've got some 2 inch super comps coming and I can't wait to install them http://pysales.com/images/boxing.gif

As far as quality with the Dougs I dont think they are any better. I matched up the header gasket they supplied and it was off an 1/8 of an inch. The inside of the tubes were they are welded to the flange is poorly done. Its rough with considerable amounts of slag.Yep the engine is in Darb! Cody played hooky and helped me. It was funny he played sick to Amy and after she left he came into the garage and asked if he could help. Apparently he had it all planned.

The headers that PY member "Tunnelport"(Ron Watt) has been offering for months now.
See this link.
Initial TRI-Y discussion

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I know it's too late now but Ron tunnel port is about to get a run of tri-ys done for the a-body </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pro-tour79, How does the performance of these Tri-y's compare to 4-tube style design? I do not see any lower mounting flanges on these Tri-Y's how do you guys connect these to the exhaust pipes? What is Ron getting for these headers? These Tri-Y's are supposed to give good clearance for the starter, oil filter, and good ground clearance, but how about the brake distribution block that is mounted on the DS inner frame rail on A-body cars? Is the bolt-up easier for these headers compared to the 4-tube style design?

Cooool! When's fire up time?.....like father like son! http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif

I put Hedman Huslers w/2" primary tubes.on my 1967 GTO with Edelbroch heads. They were one of the easiest sets that I ever installed. The headers were seperate tube slip fit type. In the 1960's and 1970's Tubular Automotive made the same type of header and I used them on my 1965 GTO. The company is still in business but I dont know if they still make that type of header.

I'm looking forward to installing these on my new motor! I was told they are very easy to install! Plate bolts to head, then each individual 2" tube gets mounted to plate, with the last having the 31/2"collector...then remining tubes bolt to collector. We shall see! Thay are Mad Dog headers BTW.

Another

Last one, these are the flange plates. Best part is....no header gaskets!

Dang Wheelspin, I thought that was a secret only a few knew.

Honestly guys, Pontiac headers are not that difficult. Getting everything out of the way to saves time and frustration. Substitute that short bolt and start it about 1/3 of the way in, then put the end bolts 1/3 in, pull the short bolt back out, slide the gasket in on the outer bolts, reinstall the short bolt then the rest of the bolts about 1/3 in. Torque them all down evenly from there.

Another tip is to use a "craftsman" stubby wrench as it fits in between the tubes.

You want to talk about a tough header install, let's talk about the Hooker headers in my buddy's 428 SCJ Mercury Cyclone where you cannot even see the header flange from the top or bottom. Everytime he pulls the motor it's beer bribe time!!!

Darin, Where can you purchase these "Mad Dog Headers" and how much did they run you? Thanks.

Guys, I wish I had your header problems!!! Try getting a set of headers for one of the "less common" Pontiacs. With the headers I am currently using, one side dropped right in, and the other had to be cut up, repositioned and rewelded. The only good thing I can say about it is that, as a result of my work, I have awesome ground clearance. I wish all it took to make 'em fit was a hammer and a case of beer!

http://www.geocities.com/maddogheaders/

I think you can get them thru Nunzi also. I bought mine used from a local racer, who used them on his 70 Lemans Sport. I paid $375.00, they are Jet Hot coated, and came with the evac setup you see in the pics. All hardware and flanges were included as well. Here is an uncoated set on E-bay for 64-67 GTO.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=7954741348

It says they normally sell for $475.00

Doug's headers are also more expensive because they use 3/8" flanges, 16 guage tubing, 4 tube design and welded collectors. All features you won't find in cheap headers. I still say I'd rather go thru the potential nightmare once and be done with it than have to deal with leaking and warping after a year or two.

For my 67 Firebird, I'm getting ready to order headers soon. Motor is out, and just freshly painted. Almost all together. Should I install the headers before installing the motor? Right now, both frnders are off, as well as the passenger side inner fender.
Also, can anyone suggest header brand for my specific car?
Thanks
Chris

Darrell did you really just say it was a PITA to put in headers on a A-body? I put my dougs on my 71 car so we have the same car. I thought it was easy. You really don't know what a PITA is, my buddy's 1200 dollar Stainless headers from SLP for his '01 WS6 were a PITA. We had to bang those things in, and forget about getting to the rear bolts! We needed towels to keep the blood from dripping down our arms! http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_wink.gif Are you sure you got the right headers for the right car

I put dougs on my 70 and found them quite easy to put on compared to any other header I had in the past. They are a very high quality header, well worth the price

The Doug's headers fit perfectly on my '64 GTO racecar (with a stock frame). By raising the engine a few inches, I can even drop the passenger-side header in from the top! Even though I've had the engine out at least five times since I first got it running, I never dread the header install. It's a snap.

Jim

Help, I need Help!, I called Thorley, classic industries, Summit Racing, Exhaust pros., even the beer gods, and no one knows why the Thorley's aren't working with my 69 firebird.
Summary: After Struggling with the stud that holds the counter shaft and screws on to the block and the clutch fork pin (WD-40 is my friend) I was able to get the headers on, which I would say it was no problem, but doing it by myself was harder than I thought. So now the Headers are on, but then I noticed that the counter shaft for my clutch was hitting the headers, so I can put it in neutral but my clutch stays down on the floor, to return the petal up, one of flanges on the Counter shaft has to clear the pipes. Has anyone ever run accross this problem, or am I just a moron that has put this part in the wrong way.
On a lighter note the pipes sound so sweet. I wish I could run them without mufflers. Hahaha. These puppies are Throaty!

Stock 400 Sm Engine Block
Stock Clutch parts
stock 1969 conv.Pontiac firebird body
Doug Thorley 14 gauge 3-pipe Headers for a 69 firebird
12 hours of Blood sweat and Beers!
But I didn't scratch the Headers putting them in. Any Answers?
Oh, and after hearing these Thorleys I'd have to say that Hookers are crap.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stover:
Help, I need Help!, I called Thorley, classic industries, Summit Racing, Exhaust pros., even the beer gods, and no one knows why the Thorley's aren't working with my 69 firebird.
Summary: After Struggling with the stud that holds the counter shaft and screws on to the block and the clutch fork pin (WD-40 is my friend) I was able to get the headers on, which I would say it was no problem, but doing it by myself was harder than I thought. So now the Headers are on, but then I noticed that the counter shaft for my clutch was hitting the headers, so I can put it in neutral but my clutch stays down on the floor, to return the petal up, one of flanges on the Counter shaft has to clear the pipes. Has anyone ever run accross this problem, or am I just a moron that has put this part in the wrong way.
On a lighter note the pipes sound so sweet. I wish I could run them without mufflers. Hahaha. These puppies are Throaty!

Stock 400 Sm Engine Block
Stock Clutch parts
stock 1969 conv.Pontiac firebird body
Doug Thorley 14 gauge 3-pipe Headers for a 69 firebird
12 hours of Blood sweat and Beers!
But I didn't scratch the Headers putting them in. Any Answers?
Oh, and after hearing these Thorleys I'd have to say that Hookers are crap. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
First off i can't help you b/c i have a auto. second i think they are talking about Doug's headers which are different than doug thorley, but im sure someone can help you out, especially if you make a new topic about thorley headers.

Can't amagine dropping the engine by myself, hats off to you...glad you got to hear the thunder!

Doug's Headers installed easy and fit great in my '65 GTO.

my guess is that you purchased 'Thorley' headers which are completely different patterns than "Doug's" headers. "Thorley' headers are not well regarded in the Pontiac community.

What Cris said...Doug's headers are totally different animal. I bought a set from Milt Schornack in Michigan last year, so I know they are an older set. Flanges are super thick, all welds are beautiful and the headers themselves look like jewelry. I put Hooker Super Comps in our stock chassis '64 GTO and had to notch the A-frames. When I consulted Hooker's tech guy, he non-chalantly state.."oh, you sometimes need to do that on older cars." Dude... this is my suspension we're talking about, and it's not like you have't had 40 years to get it right. I won't even sell Dynomax to Pontiac people, as they do not fit a '64-'67 car or any 4-speed cars. There is a reason you can't get headers from the factory. Ram Air manifolds rule on a mild street engine, and they're no picnic!

Here is a picture of the great fitting and easy to install Dougs headers,resting directly on the frame http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...s/icon_mad.gif. I have brand spanking new motor and tranny mount, before you ask. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_razz.gif

Another. So Darb, next time you ask me whats taking me so long, just understand all I am doing is fixing everyones junk I keep buying! http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_wink.gif

Damn Sorry buddy!Is anyone else having those issues that he is with their 70 gto with dougs?

p.s what is taking so long ,lol

You say you keep modifying everyones junk to fit. The parts and pieces you are purchasing are probably not junk but you are trying to fit them on a car that is tweaked.

I bought some Flo Tech headers from Supershops when they went out of business for $50. They arent the best headers, but they have thick flanges and only had to dent in the steering gear box area since the tube rested on it. Engine torque finished the dent after installation. I have taken them off and put them on at least 5 times in a 3 year period and it is definately a "science". It is almost like memorizing the torque sequence for a ford 3.8 liter cylinder head http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...s/icon_mad.gif I think it took 6 hours to do the first install, but had it down to 30 minutes per side the last time around. Hind sight being 20/20, I would have never bought any headers knowing that I would have to do the job this many times over the past 8 years!

NO MY CAR IS NOT TWEEKED. I measured out the frame when I was restoring it. Is it so hard to believe that Dougs headers are not as good as everyone else is saying?

Darrel- When I installed my Doug Headers on a 67 GTO, The Drivers Side was hitting the Cross-member. I called Dougs and told them what the problem was. I marked the area where the tube was hitting the cross-member and sent the header back to Dougs. They cut and re-welded the header, re-coated it and sent it back to me. fit perfect the second time, I still have the warrenty since they fixed the problem, and the coating was redone.

I would give dougs a call and send them the pictures you have. See if they are willing to fix the problem. It worked for me, but took a couple of weeks.

Thats a good idea! I should do that. You may be a mean old goat, but you have some good ideas. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif

Darrell,
We installed a set of Doug's on a 69 GTO and the tube hit the lower control arm mount, driver's side. We had to heat it and dent it in about 0.5". We called to let them know but unfortunately, they were not able to send a new set. It was only a little problem as this man bought them uncoated for just this reason (in case we had to dent them). After we dented it and he coated them, they went on and were okay. He too had all new mounts and a restored, correctly aligned frame. They thought his car was a bit different than their jig. I suppose that could be but it would have only taken a bit of a modification to their jig to have hit it 100% right on. I was sad but not mad as the man owning the car was prepared for just such an issue.
I hope you have as much luck fixing it as we did.
Tom

I'd be pissed off too...

It is so funny how people get defensive when you are clearly stating that there is a problem with your new HIGH DOLLAR headers! I'm sorry, but for all the crap people talk about these headers, and their price THEY SHOULD BOLT RIGHT UP!! Suggesting that your frame is tweaked, http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif give me a f'in break...

As for the quality of the Doug's headers, I would say that they are second to none. They are obviously of higher quality than the Hooker Super comps I just put on my car. AND they dont hang down as low. With the SC's though, everything just bolted right up. No interference with anything, and my stock oil filter and housing fit fine. All the bolts were easy to get to, and I had both sides in after one night (5-10pm).

I have a friend that just purchased a set of Doug's for his '67 GTO. They appear to fit well. Of course, no one mentioned to him that he would need to move his disc brake proportioning valve in order for them to fit. What a major PITA! Of course, once he re-works his brake lines they will fit fine but thats alot of work.

Thats why u need to race a grandville you could get 2 sets in there!!! http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif.....

I installed a set of Dougs on my 70 GTO and had very little problems. I have a 4spd and have no clearence issues. I had to remove the starter and I think I also removed the oil filter. Very happy with the quality and installation. However I don't have anything to compare it too.

I would love to see some pictures of other 70 A bodies. I would like to see a picture of were mine is hitting on the drivers side.

Darrell that sucks, if your car is true, then maybe the headers are off. Perhaps a new set should be sent.

I sent the headers back to Dougs and low and behold they did not fit in there jig. According to the guy I talked to they were a little off. They are redoing mine insted of sending a new one http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_confused.gif.I have to wait two weeks two get them back. I am ok with this as long as they get fixed, but boy did I have a hard time convincing the guy on the phone that they were bad he actually told me there was no way his headers would be off. Then he told me to pound my $400 headers and make a dent were they are touching. I told him he was NUTZ! He said I could send them in but he wasnt paying the shipping. Dont you think he should ceramic coat them for me for free now http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif?

hell yeah they should! These boards are the reason I shelled out big cash to get those headers. I think their conduct is unacceptable. You have a lot of weight on people's opinion whether or not they make this right. Perhaps you should let them know that you have hundreds of potental customers looking at what results come of this.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Darrell:
He said I could send them in but he wasnt paying the shipping. Dont you think he should ceramic coat them for me for free now http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If your headers were defective they should absolutely help you out in some way. That was a tremendous inconvenience for you to have to remove the headers and ship them to California and wait 2 weeks. If they won't ceramic coat them for the hassle you went thru, call PY and we'll make sure they get coated.

Thanks Cris, the problem is I only sent them one header (the bad one). The header is the final piece to me 2 year resto on my Judge. What should I do? I am scared I will be out all together if I start b#tching to them. By the way Cris I finished the X system on my car and I must say I think I have done the best job I have seen yet ( I am a little biased though http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_wink.gif). I used the 3" X and mufflers and 2.5" tails. I had a flange welded to the back of the muffler so I could remove the whole X if needed from the headers to the back of the mufflers. I have a million dollar idea for you with the X. Weld a 3/4" nut on both sides of the X so a person could run a U type drive shaft loop held up by the X. The U could be bolted and adjusted with nuts on top and bottom of the 3/4" nut. This kills two birds- 1. no drill 2.easily adjusted for perfect fit. Now go make your million with this idea http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif. I just want my headers to fit http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_frown.gif.

An exhust system will not contain a broken (spining violently) driveshaft. Believe me I know.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. A 3" system is pretty stout. It must be stronger than those thin cheapies that you bolt to the floor boards.