How the heck do these go?
 

Front inner fender splash shields for 68-69 GTO. I have turned these every which way, and haven't found a fit yet. I don't know where on the wheel well they go, or even which end is up, or front ...:o

Could use some friendly advice. A pic of these items installed in your goat would be priceless.

:)

Regards.
Bob Trimpe

The rectangular ones go on the square cut outs on the inner fender above the upper control arms. Held in with some big staples. I've never replaced the others. They go in the inner fender (wheel side) frame contact area.

That takes care of one set of staple holes - thanks.

Anybody got any info on the odd-shaped piece?

Bob Trimpe

Yeah. My camera is on the blink or I could take a pic of it for you. It goes along the lower rear edge of the wheel house.
David says wheel side and I'm not going to argue that although mine are on the outside of the wheelhouse (cowl side).
At the rear of the wheelhouse, you'll see two holes that are nearly an inch in diameter. That wedge shaped cutout is an opening for the two holes. The lower hole is located near the curved apex of the cutout.
Beyond that, the shield pretty much follows the contour of the lower edge of the wheelhouse with the hole in the apex as the locator.
Don't know if that's clear or not. I'm going to look through my pics. I may have one in the pile that shows it in place.

Here you go....

So, it fits like this ... (pic). I was waaay off on guessing this one.

How much of the flap hangs below the edge of the wheelwell?

Thanks,
Bob Trimpe

NO...One mistake. What you have labeled as "inner" is actually the outer. What you've got labeled "Engine compartment" is the outer. The narrow end that you have labeled "Outer" actually terminates at the opening for the upper control arm...Which is where the square shaped splash shield takes up.
Not very much of it hangs down. Maybe 2 to 3 inches in one area, none of it at all in others.
If you get that hole positioned in the cutout properly and get the narrow end in line with the edge of the control arm opening, you'll be in good shape.

Here's another pic of the same wheelhouse taken the same time from the front. You can see the splash guard at the top of the pic.
You can see that this is the driver's side wheelhouse.

Thanks, Greg. Pictures are just what I needed.

Regards,
Bob Trimpe

The seals at the rear of the skirts on my '69 are upside down compared to Greg's -- the large cutout faces down on mine. I'm sure they've never been off, but I can't promise they were installed correctly at the factory.

I'll try to get pictures in a day or two.

Same here LOL!

Pete, have you had a chance to get pics?

Bob Trimpe

Sorry about the delay... too many irons in the fire.

This is one side (I took the seals of the other side already, but they were mounted the same way). Hopefully these will help -- let me know if you need a different shot.

Lee

Wow, two opposite replies from two credible sources, looking at two cars that have obviously been together a long time. :confused:

Thanks for taking the time to research and photograph, guys. At least I know which part of the well they go on. Let you know if I come across any more info on these.

Regards,
Bob Trimpe

I'm sure Greg's are wrong. ;)

I don't have most of my car here at the moment, so I can't tell how the seals fit and why the cutouts are where they are. I'll hopefully be putting it back together in the next few weeks, so I'll let you know if I come up with anything.

I wonder if the factory assembly manual has anything? I'll look there, too.

Mine are like LPete's. They look correct on the car because the tab forms a little mud flap behind the front tire, just behind the metal "tab" haning down. There was only one set of staple holes.

I really can't tolerate being wrong so I'm sure I'm right. ;)

Inner Fender Seals
 

Hey guys,
I have an original factory install (all be it in horrible shape) and sorry to say Greg, but this is one of those rare instances where you were wrong. Since LPete's is the same as mine, I declare majority rule.:Peace:

:confused2 Now...I have to staple new seals to my newly restored inners - so how in the world do you staple them? I bought repop seals with staples. What would you/have you guys used? This may sound silly, but I don't feel like ruining all my hard work. Thanks for any help!
-Joe

Well, I guess it had to happen sometime. I'm almost 50 years old now and that's the first time I've ever been (suspected of being) wrong.

I'd blame it on age. :)

I'm 46 and just learning to use that excuse. Like they say, I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

Have a great weekend!

WOW this one's all over the place. Looks like we have a consensus?

Good thread, tho.

Bob

I don't think I have any pictures to back it up, but my seals were like Greg's when I disassembled my car. I've had the car 15 years and I'm sure they weren't replaced before I got the car.

Keep in mind that I also found the want ads form the day my car was built in the carpet insulation so mine may not be installed the "right" way either. However, it made sense to me to put the notch around the bolt holes so most of the insulation goes between the fender well and the frame eliminating any potential squeaks.

If it matters, my car was built in May of '68 at the Arlington plant.

BooYow!:whoo:
Seriously though...I don't think mine have ever been removed either and mine was also built in May of '68 at the Arlington plant. I too thought that the notch was designed to encircle the bolt hole.
Either way, no one is going to see it once it's assembled and it'll serve the purpose either way it seems.

I wonder if there's any chance they changed them from '68 to '69? Can't imagine why, though.

I didn't see them in my '69 assembly manual. Maybe they just made a decision at Arlington to put them on this way and stuck with it.

I'm not sure if this helps anyone, but here a pic I found of my car before I took it apart. You can see that the contour of the splash shield follows the curve of the frame.

This was so long ago that only reading through the thread did I realize that I was almost wrong once. Just when I'd gotten over the trauma... Thanks a lot Ken!
Seriously Ken, I thought that you'd brought it back up but really, I got here through a couple of links through the back door. Interesting walk down memory lane...lol

12 years ago, wow! Doesn't seem like the mystery of the splash shields ever got solved, but us May '68 Arlington guys need to stick together :D

Well, I mean we're right...so there's really nothing else to do..lol

Whew. For a second there I got worried thinking I had the wrong seals on my car. But then I realized you guys were talking about the inner fender seals and not the upper A-frame seals.

This doesn't surprise me at all. :) If I have learned anything in researching "correctness" with our cars its that they were put together a lot of different ways. Generally the same, but at times very different. When I see those shields upside-down, I picture a new guy on the assemble line that didn't follow directions, or maybe a few shields were upside-down in the pile & the parts keep moving on. Such a cool time in history.

Somebody on the forum made a comment years back that if we took a 68-69 GTO right of the assembly line, stored it in a bag & put it out for display as a restored car, it would get tore apart for how many things are incorrect. That is so true in the small details.

I have a recent thread on these shields & realized how random the staples are & how some of the upper shields where on either side of the wheel well houses. I learn something everyday by all the sharing that happens on this site.

Here's what mine look like. these wells are junk, but came from my late father in-laws 68 lemans he bought new in April of 1968. I have held on to them so I knew how to install the shields on my GTO restoration. These should help me install them correctly, or incorrectly but at least it will be the same as one guy decided was good enough in 1968. :D

No doubt they came both ways but I still like the slot lining up with the bolt holes... Just looks like that cutout was made for those holes to me.
Where was that car built ragtop?

It was a pontiac MI car.

Interesting that the two Arlington cars on this thread have them one way, all the others another way.
My thought is that the slot took some type of engineering step. It was consciously put there for some reason. Has to be to line up with those hole...or if not...why?
Looking at your pic, it looks like it's just begging to be rotated 180 ccw. Even the angle of the slot lines up with the angles of the holes.. ;)

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...1&d=1512651848

What I wish I would have done is had the new shields on hand when I was test fitting all the sheet metal. When I did all my panel alignment, gaps, & rough in body work I had everything bolted together on the frame. I should have slid them in place & visually decided where exactly I wanted to put them, marked them & I would be good to go today. But, I honestly didn't think that far into the restoration at that time. I suppose its still possible put I would rather install them on the well before I attach the wells to the fenders. Too much risk of scratching something doing it twice imo. we'll see.... ;)

What's worse is the original wells that were on my GTO I discarded at least 8 years ago. I knew I had these (in the picts) for a reference & never even paid attention to where they were on the GTO originals. They had some dents, rust & full of undercoating so I pitched them in favor of re-pops. Then kept the lemans wells knowing for sure they were never touched. I would probably do that different on several levels if I had a mulligan on that choice.... :rolleyes: But My GTO is also a Pontiac plant car so its likely the same except it was built in January, not March like the one I pictured.

Actually as long as I am having regrets, my biggest regret is stripping down the lemans & junking it. One of my restoration blunders. I should have left that car sit, just like it was. I could have used it as a virtual assembly manual. I took a few pictures when I took it apart, but not enough, & not of the right things. At that time I had no intension of restoring the car to the level that I am now. It was going to be a nice driver & I was that concerned with being that original appearing. That changed some over the course of this project.

If this thread proves anything I think it is that the guys on the assembly line probably could have cared less how this kind of stuff was applied. As long as it was installed and no one was ever going to see it as far as they believed.
Probably never even crossed their minds that someone would be 'anal-retentatively' restoring a lowly A-body 50 years after the fact!

Here's the one picture I took of the rubber shields. These are the born with, original, never removed, splash shields on my fathers 69 GTO he bought new. Baltimore built in Sept of 68.

Dang...I guess Arlington is the only place that put 'em on right....lol ;)

LOL, it is what it is. I know Dads are original and correct for "his" car. They were in perfect shape and cleaned up nicely so I didn't disturb them. I see Pete's are also the same. Could be a 68 to 69 change. I'm pretty sure once his inner fenders were on the car, that slot in the splash shield exposes a hole in the frame behind the tire.

Different example but interesting, my 69 Z/28 also still has it's born with splash shields, and it uses very similar lower pieces like that down by the frame. They are installed on the same side of the inner fender in the same fashion as my fathers car. Norwood 12D 68 build. Kind of interesting, completely different manufacture and plant.

Strange indeed...

If it helps at all, I'd probably chuck it up as an assembly plant thing. I wouldn't call one or the other incorrect. I've restored a ton of original cars from various brands, and if there is one thing they all have in common, it's very little :D

There are so many quirks and assembly changes, many assembly changes done right through a single model year in the middle of production runs.

Mustangs are terrible for this, with 3 different plants, there isn't much that is the same between the 3. One plant uses batch paint to shoot the floors, one uses red oxide, the other is black.
GM F-body plants are the same way. Van Nuys shot the floors black while Norwood used Red Oxide.
The number of production run changes on a 69 Z/28 alone fills a whole page. From gauges, hoods, decklids, spoilers, exhaust, it's just crazy. Takes a TON of research to do one of these cars correctly, any car really.

Here you go Greg, adds more fuel to the discussion.

Here they are as factory installed on my fathers GTO from the picture above. You can see once the inner fenders are on the car, the slot in the splash shield follows the access hole in the frame of similar shape. Same on the other side. These oblong holes in the frame are for "T" bolt style chain hooks to tie the car down on a trailer, or on the trains or transport trucks during delivery. So they need to be accessible. Not sure if flipping the splash shield around would cover these tie down points or not.

Anyone install their inner fenders yet with the shields flipped the other way???

Now THAT makes sense as to why that slot would be there. Mine have been installed for years the other way and frankly, I NEVER look at them...I'll look today though...If I can remember it.
If mine are blocking that slot, I would relent and say that they SHOULD be installed the way everyone else's to be installed. As for mine, I never removed them.

Those are the picts we should probably be looking at more of. The ones that show the shields from the installed side perspective. It is interesting how the slot upwards, has the edge following the frame quite nicely like we can see in post #26

I'll bet we have now collectively discussed this more than was covered on how to install them in 68 :) I enjoy this part of the hobby though......

After looking at Formulajones' photo and referencing Ken's photo from post #26, you can see that the slot mentioned by Mr. Jones is covered up.
I think you guys are correct that the slot goes down...but you can see how easily one plant might assume it goes the other way..like I did...for the bolt holes.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...8&d=1157700061

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...3&d=1512672165

when I first saw the slot, I assumed it was just a releaf cut so it could follow the frame better. I do see an area above where the shield looks bubbled out. Probably from the way it was stapled. as we know, these staples are all over the place from car to car.

If it is indeed for the frame opening, now I am going to want to try & line that up before stapling mine. Lol.